Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums

Let's stop moaning

  1. #11


    Interesting feedback!
    "To claim that persons who do not like W8 are moaning" Who claimed that?

    "In the View options of Windows folders for every version, there has always been the ability to personalise with a choice of tiles, icons, list, etc. Yet this option is missing for the start menu in W8"

    Was the Folder view" option ever in a previous start menu? Do you mean this:

    Click image for larger version My choice has always been to customise it through the Control Panel on the desktop - still available. But it is also still available from the Top menu. -View. But I am confused with the last part. You mean you cannot customise the Metro icons, I suppose. I agree, and find it irritating. I did remark on that.

    I have no problem with using a third party program to reinstate the old start menu. In fact, If you look at posts in Vista/7 forums - still plenty around, you will find that even there that the Classic is often being discussed and installed.
    My OP was targeted at the constant claims of lack of choice, and the ensuing discussions arising from it. Accepting the third party option, no big deal, in fact the choice is fourfold. On a Tablet or stationary, you can use the "Metro", with or without the Touch facility. The old desktop can be setup precisely as it was in windows 7. The mentioned classic, and a couple of others, will take you straight to the legacy desktop, and you need never see the Metro again, if that is your choice. I just happen to use both, according to which I find most convenient.

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  2. #12


    Australia
    Posts : 716
    Windows 7 Ult Reatil & Win 8 Pro OEM


    Quote Originally Posted by davehc View Post
    Interesting feedback!

    "In the View options of Windows folders for every version, there has always been the ability to personalise with a choice of tiles, icons, list, etc. Yet this option is missing for the start menu in W8"
    You missed the whole point of my post.

    It's about customer preferences and M$ attitudes. We're not interested in how easy or hard it is to make it work like Win7. And we're not interested in justifying our preferences.

    We resent the fact that M$ point blank refuse to cater for our preferences, when they so easily could provide those options. And we're using this forum to voice our complaint.

    Quote Originally Posted by davehc
    "To claim that persons who do not like W8 are moaning" Who claimed that?
    So what does the title of your thread mean: "Lets stop moaning" Who are you implying is moaning, if not the Win8 disenchanted?

    As I said in another post: Maybe we should have a thread entitled:

    Will you upgrade to the Titanic (W8) and rearrange the deck chairs (Start Menu tiles)

    ... or stay in the life boat (W7)!
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  3. #13


    Posts : 1,925
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by Mustang View Post
    We resent the fact that M$ point blank refuse to cater for our preferences, when they so easily could provide those options. And we're using this forum to voice our complaint.
    So your argument is that you're mad at Ford because the Taurus doesn't look like a Porsche, because your preferences are for a Porsche... Damn them for not giving you what you want.

    Companies make a product, and their products are based on the companies long term plans. Microsoft's plan is not to make Windows 7 for every version of Windows that they put out. If you don't like Windows 8, don't use it. Windows 7 is supported for another 8 years.

    In order for the OS to evolve, it must change. And if they leave the options to go back, nobody will ever change. They learned that the hard way with XP. Starting in Vista, Microsoft has said "No, we will not support turning our newest products into the old products".
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  4. #14


    Australia
    Posts : 716
    Windows 7 Ult Reatil & Win 8 Pro OEM


    [QUOTE=Mystere;112458]
    Quote Originally Posted by Mustang View Post
    In order for the OS to evolve, it must change. And if they leave the options to go back, nobody will ever change. They learned that the hard way with XP. Starting in Vista, Microsoft has said "No, we will not support turning our newest products into the old products".
    The first rule of successful marketing is to cater for supply and demand set by customer preferences. And clearly that has not happened with W8.

    Change for the sake of change is a specious argument. The change must reflect what customers want and be a more efficient way of doing things. And in the opinion of many Windows supporters, W8 fails on both counts.

    It's not a discussion or debate of the pros and cons. It's a statement of preferences and dissatisfaction.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mystere
    So your argument is that you're mad at Ford because the Taurus doesn't look like a Porsche, because your preferences are for a Porsche... Damn them for not giving you what you want.
    No. I still love my Ford. And the new model runs faster than the old one. But I'm mad at them for removing the brake pedal and being forced to use a selection screen to activate the brakes. I've already stacked it three times in emergency stops and the insurance is killing me! Shame on Ford!
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  5. #15


    Posts : 1,925
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by Mustang View Post
    The first rule of successful marketing is to cater for supply and demand set by customer preferences. And clearly that has not happened with W8.
    And Microsoft believes that the world is moving to a touch-based computing model. They believe that is where the demand will be. Further, they don't want to confuse users by providing different user interfaces for touch and mouse. That's what they've been doing for 2 decades and it hasn't worked.

    This is not just Microsoft. Apple is moving in the same direction. Macs don't even *HAVE* an equivalent of the start screen, or the old start menu. They just have the dock, and an applications folder.

    Microsoft believes they are catering to future demand with Windows 8, they believe that traditional desktops can work just fine with this UI, but the vast majority of their revenue will come from touch based devices. Why cater to people that make up what they consider to be a tiny percentage of their future revenue?
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  6. #16


    Posts : 636
    Windows 7/8


    Hehe, a post about not arguing about Win 8 leads to more arguing about windows 8

    I've been involved in a lot of it myself, but... this is nothing. Wait till it's released for real and the population in the forums here /explodes/.

    I guess we should get as much of it between us out of the way first before that happens.

    Barman:
    While what all of you say is true. Think about how /minor/ most of those changes really were. And yes people did complain. In fact I used to Scoff at people that used the classic XP/2k start menus on Vista and Windows 7. The differences were SO MINOR, mainly just looks, it made no sense to not move with the times.

    But Windows 8 is COMPLETELY different. The changes are MAJOR and in may ways completely breaking. I no longer scoff and I myself will be installing Classic Shell because the Metro start is a complete disaster on the desktop IMHO.

    So yeah Vista was almost sunk over what amounted to rather trivial growing pains that accompany most all OS upgrades, but XP->Vista was (to be arbitrary) a "10" on the change scale. XP/Win7 -> Win 8 is like a "100" on the same scale. Totally a different league of change. Almost more like changing OSes entirely for most casual desktop users.

    Mustang:
    One problem though is that I find a huge number of Win 8 supporters (Well there aren't really that many of them but a large number of them that exist) in fact denigrate those that don't like it by calling us Dinos, Afraid of change and the like. This is simply not true and shows that people that do like Windows 8 completely ignore the concerns and needs of those of us that find it completely in the way. So it goes both ways.

    Microsoft has done this to us, driven a wedge right down the middle of it's loyal fan base. They didn't need too, Metro could have existed with the desktop is a MUCH more seamless way, but they got... Lazy? Greedy? I dunno, but they got something and now were paying for it.
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  7. #17


    Australia
    Posts : 716
    Windows 7 Ult Reatil & Win 8 Pro OEM


    [QUOTE=Mystere;112476]
    Quote Originally Posted by Mustang View Post
    Microsoft believes they are catering to future demand with Windows 8, they believe that traditional desktops can work just fine with this UI, but the vast majority of their revenue will come from touch based devices. Why cater to people that make up what they consider to be a tiny percentage of their future revenue?
    So you would call millions of offices, defence forces, educational facilities, etc, etc, a small minority? And assume they will all happily switch from traditional desktop mouse/keyboard to touch screen?

    I beg to differ. Whoever heard of a new innovative system being sold at give away prices? If it's so good and in such demand why aren't they charging accordingly? No, W8 is simply the marketing push by M$ to get their share of the existing smartfone/tablet market. And they're almost giving it away as an introductory promotional offer.

    Motor vehicle manufacturers provide many options, such as auto or manual gear shift; hard top or convertible; and the list goes on. M$ could so easily provide the options we seek, but they won't. By all means have a Metro based version, but also a a few simple switches to give us what we want. Tell me why not?

    Time will tell the outcome of their marketing strategy. I'm sure they will make headway in the target markets, but equally sure it will be at the cost of lost sales in other parts of the market.

    Anyhoo, all of the above is off topic, which is "Time to stop moaning." And as I stated a few posts back, we are not moaning but using this forum as a vehicle to express our dissatisfaction with W8 to M$; without the need to justify or prove anything.

    Whether others agree or disagree with our complaints is their business. Our busines is to try and get through to M$. However, I think the only thing that will achieve that will be the market response in October. And IMHO that is like watching the swell rise as the tsunami tidal wave gets set to break!
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  8. #18


    "You missed the whole point of my post."

    "So what does the title of your thread mean: "Lets stop moaning" Who are you implying is moaning, if not the Win8 disenchanted?"


    I wonder if you even read my post, other than the title. You seem to have missed my point somewhere along the line. The whole text was a comment on the constant ongoing discussion of the Metro Start menu. If, in your opinion, that encompasses the entire Windows 8 OS, so be it!
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  9. #19


    Posts : 1,925
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    You can argue till you turn blue in the face. I'm not arguing that what Microsoft believes is true. I'm just trying to tell you why they are acting the way they are. Every so often Microsoft "bets the farm" on something. This time it's touch, and they're going into it full bore.

    Like it or not, Microsoft controls the direction of their product. Not you, or me or anyone else. They dictate how it is built and what it does. If the market doesn't like it, they won't buy it. They learn their lesson.
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  10. #20


    Posts : 636
    Windows 7/8


    Quote Originally Posted by Mystere View Post
    You can argue till you turn blue in the face. I'm not arguing that what Microsoft believes is true. I'm just trying to tell you why they are acting the way they are. Every so often Microsoft "bets the farm" on something. This time it's touch, and they're going into it full bore.

    Like it or not, Microsoft controls the direction of their product. Not you, or me or anyone else. They dictate how it is built and what it does. If the market doesn't like it, they won't buy it. They learn their lesson.
    So doesn;t that mean that in the end we DO control the direction of their product?

    If they go off in the weeks badly, it is WE what will let them know it and then they will get back on the road as you say so... yes, it's important that people that don't like something speak up!

    (And to be clear, no one of us anti-metro people are asking for it to be completely removed, just optionally removed or better merged with the desktop so that using one or the other or both is a seamless and user controlled experience. EVERYONE would be better off and a LOT happier if that were the case)
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

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Let's stop moaning
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