Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums


Apps screen too crowded.

  1. #51


    Posts : 636
    Windows 7/8


    Quote Originally Posted by pparks1 View Post
    The multi-monitor support of Win 8 is pretty good.

    I think alot have the same concerns I have who have not used Win8 on multimonitor. Many have tried win8 in a VM (thus single display), or have tried it on an older spare computer and likely only have 1 monitor.

    In a dual monitor setup, it's much better as you can keep "a" desktop always in view. Although when you have 2 displays, you often have things opened on both of them...so you still lose something when you switch away.

    While my main machine at work does indeed have 2 monitors, it's a laptop that I carry with me home everynight. Obviously I don't carry my second monitor with me, so I spend quite a bit of time on this machine using 1 monitor. My secondary and third machine at work are actually sharing 1 monitor (via a KVM) because my cube is just too small to squeeze in more monitors. It's my 3rd machine that I run Win8 on.
    Well the "pretty good" part of Windows 8 multiple monitor usage seems like nothing more than a happy accident. They just didn't spend the extra work to make Metro itself use multiple monitors because well tablets and phones are not multi-monitor devices so we are left (happily) with a "free" monitor for desktop use in that case.

    One thing that might be nice is if Metro could be relegated to the second monitor while leaving the main monitor for the desktop/taskbar/start menu. Then you could have a smaller satellite window for metro live tiles and the occasional screen filling news app or something but the MAIN monitor is left to the free desktop.

    Unfortunately that doesn't work from what I've seen...

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  2. #52


    Quote Originally Posted by mdmd View Post
    drifting off topic slightly

    To the annoyed:
    the desktop environment is here to stay.

    It is a necessary User Interface
    that you can count on
    for years.

    It will continue the tradition of Windows.

    The 8UI is a departure from layered and resizable Windows.

    It is a phone / tablet UI that
    cannot have resizable or overlapping "Window Frames"

    It is in the code structure of WinRT.
    How 8UI apps will be developed is controlled by WinRT.


    WinRT - the new Windows
    Thanks, mdmd. Well, I guess that throws my muti-pane theory out the window!

    This is way over my head, for I'm not a writer. A few questions: Because one cannot use these so called Win Forms, one cannot create overlapping windows? It's a whole new animal because it's forced to be full screen? Because it has to work on a phone or tablet?
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  3. #53


    Posts : 1,320
    Server 2012 / 8.0


    This is a very controversial topic.

    WinRT - the new Windows

    Posters have been battling for a year,
    since the Developer Preview release in Sept 2011.

    It is technical and business.

    The article explains some of the highlights about design,
    but does not mention the massive backlash,
    and disgust of connecting 2 systems,
    and forcing users, by default,
    to an unwanted area.

    I would say, the desktop is needed.

    The 8UI should be optional.

    MS wants to sell APPS and the software to develop them,
    and the training to learn how to use the software to develop the APPS,
    and Microsoft PRESS literature, which actually costs more than Windows 8,
    so they can get a percentage of every APP sold.


    They want to stay with the times...
    They want to stay fresh...
    make money...

    ...but they have pissed off an overwhelming
    number of preview users.

    The WinRT code platform has security and performance
    advantages over Win32 (the desktop).

    Win32 has advantages over WinRT.

    I would say the 8UI is different but not better.

    On the other hand,

    there are many options that enhance the user experience
    and seem to make usability easier.

    (opinions vary)

    There should be an optional ORB system.

    It is possible, some of their decisions,
    like the Start ORB and Aero were eliminated,
    to reduce the amount of code and some overhead (CPU cycles).

    ...Or to force users to the 8UI.

    I have always used 3rd party addons to enhance Windows.

    8UI is considered by MS suits to be a plus.

    It seems many think it is a minus.
    Last edited by mdmd; 26 Aug 2012 at 17:49. Reason: spelling - wording
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  4. #54


    Posts : 1,320
    Server 2012 / 8.0


    off topic now...

    done with this thread...

    moving on...
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  5. #55


    Posts : 534
    Windows 7, Windows 8 RP


    Quote Originally Posted by FSeal View Post
    Really? Do you open 5-10 windows at once on your desktop at all times, needing to monitor several at once wile working on code in others across multiple monitors like millions of coders, website creaters, admins and other content creators do? Can you please tell me how Metro makes /any/ of that easier or how Metro apps would NOT make all of that harder with their incredibly limited screen usage options?
    I work in IT managing our datacenter, the average day is more like 20+ windows and I do it all with a 13" laptop plus a 24" LCD Monitor. The Metro Apps are irrelevent, there are no Apps currently that I can use for work. The Start Screen is a replacement for for the Start Menu and I use it as such, I can navigate Windows 8 just as effieciently as I could Windows 7 and at times even more so.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  6. #56


    Posts : 534
    Windows 7, Windows 8 RP


    Quote Originally Posted by pparks1 View Post
    Not dramatic for me. As stated above, we use Microsoft Lync as an Instant Messenger in our corporate environment. During the day, if I get up from my desk, or turn to talk to somebody, or access my other computers, I often times miss the toast message that pops up. Unfortunately, after just a few seconds, it fades away and I'm left with just a slightly different icon in my taskbar that is super easy to miss. I've installed a third party application called SuperToast, that if after a period of 2 minutes I haven't responded to an IM, it brings it up dead center on the screen and makes me take notice. You can already imagine my concern with flipping over to the Start Screen and missing things. It's almost like having a KVM where I have switched entirely to a different computer and I'm missing what is going on on the first computer.

    We are very different users. You aren't looking at the desktop anymore, and I'm almost exclusively looking at the desktop. These "metro" apps just don't have the functionality or the multi-tasking ability to make them usable to me. During my workday, I almost always have the following apps open (Outlook, Word, Excel, Microsoft Lync, Microsoft Dynamics, Vision App RDP client, Vsphere Client, a couple of ssh logins to Linux hosts, a web browser, media monkey and filezilla). And all of these apps are full blown standard Windows apps that launch and run on the desktop that I am looking at.
    By the sounds of it you and I have similar jobs which I figured early on when I joined reading your posts and it boggles my mind why you struggle so much with it. On my personal computer at home most of what I do is just content centric, read news, personal email, occasional facebook, participate in forums etc and I spend most of my time in Metro. For work I use my 13" laptop with a 24" LCD attached and use much of the same programs, or similar ,that you list above and can have 20+ windows on the go, but I do that exclusively at the desktop on both screens using the Start Screen for navigation. I'm not in the Start Screen long enough or even need to access as much because most of what I use is already running. Perhaps it's because I never found the Start Menu to be very efficient in the first place and have come accustomed to keyboard shortcuts, pinning to the task bar and even using Object Dock instead in Windows 7. For me keyboard short cuts and the Start Menu are even more efficient than how I used Windows 7.

    As far as the Metro Apps I don't see what your concern is about their usability at this point in a work specific setting outside of personal use. Until developers start building more productivity or business apps they will be of little use in an enterprise setting. Once the store starts to mature and better apps get added there will be more useful apps available for what we do. You can't deny that a dashboard type monitoring Metro app wouldn't work well for our requirements, there are many existing applications that provide these types of simplified but very useful views of the infrastructure we monitor (eg. SolarWinds).
    Last edited by R0bR; 24 Aug 2012 at 05:23.
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  7. #57


    Posts : 636
    Windows 7/8


    Quote Originally Posted by R0bR View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by FSeal View Post
    Really? Do you open 5-10 windows at once on your desktop at all times, needing to monitor several at once wile working on code in others across multiple monitors like millions of coders, website creaters, admins and other content creators do? Can you please tell me how Metro makes /any/ of that easier or how Metro apps would NOT make all of that harder with their incredibly limited screen usage options?
    I work in IT managing our datacenter, the average day is more like 20+ windows and I do it all with a 13" laptop plus a 24" LCD Monitor. The Metro Apps are irrelevent, there are no Apps currently that I can use for work. The Start Screen is a replacement for for the Start Menu and I use it as such, I can navigate Windows 8 just as effieciently as I could Windows 7 and at times even more so.
    Dubious about the "more so" part as /at best/ one might bea ble to acheive parity of app launching IF you ignore the entire jarring behaviour of it over the start screen. But then one really arent USING metro for anything other than a huge star menu. Truly, if it never existed in 8 would anything be any more difficult? From my usage, it would in fact be easier if it simply weren't there at all. My argument all along is that iut's just useless annoying baggage on a workstation and I simply can't see how it isn't. Even if one does get used to it (as one MUST and I eventually will), there was really no purpose for it being there at all to begin with.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  8. #58


    Quote Originally Posted by mdmd View Post
    This is a very controversial topic.

    WinRT - the new Windows

    Posters have been battling for a year,
    since the Developer Preview release in Sept 2011.

    It is technical and business.

    The article explains some of the highlights about design,
    but does not mention the massive backlash,
    and disgust of connecting 2 systems,
    and forcing users, by default,
    to an unwanted area.

    I would say, the desktop is needed.

    The 8UI should be optional.

    MS wants to sell APPS and the software to develop them,
    and the training to learn how to use the software to develop the APPS,
    and Microsoft PRESS literature, which actually costs more than Windows 8,
    so they can get a percentage of every APP sold.


    They want to stay with the times...
    They want to stay fresh...
    make money...

    ...but they have pissed off an overwhelming
    number of preview users.

    The WinRT code platform has security and performance
    advantages over Win32 (the desktop).

    Win32 has advantages over WinRT.

    I would say the 8UI is different but not better.

    On the other hand,

    there are many options that enhance the user experience
    and seem to make usability easier.

    (opinions vary)

    I think that might be a graphics driver issue,
    but it should have been made available by MS.

    There should be an optional ORB system.

    It is possible, some of their decisions,
    like the Start ORB and Aero were eliminated,
    to reduce the amount of code and some overhead (CPU cycles).

    ...Or to force users to the 8UI.

    I have always used 3rd party addons to enhance Windows.

    8UI is considered by MS suits to be a plus.

    It seems many think it is a minus.
    Thank you, mdmd. I gotta say -> This is the most profound, professional, and honest post I've read on this forum as of yet! A thesis in itself. I'm going to print it out, frame it, and hang it on my wall.

    off topic now...

    done with this thread...

    moving on...
    I'm going where you're going.............
    Last edited by HippsieGypsie; 26 Aug 2012 at 18:11.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  9. #59


    Quote Originally Posted by R0bR View Post
    By the sounds of it you and I have similar jobs which I figured early on when I joined reading your posts and it boggles my mind why you struggle so much with it.
    It's not so much a struggle with it per se. The question I struggle with is whether it's advantageous to upgrade my personal computer to it, or whether it's worthwhile to upgrade our business desktops to it. Technically I know how it works and I understand it. But it really makes my computer run and operate far more closely to my smartphone and my tablet and plain and simple I don't really want my desktop computer to operate in the same manner. I find myself wishing that things were different when I am in Windows 8 (as I use it daily at work now as a test), and I find that I miss some things (like emails that arrive, or notifications in Metro apps), so I am not yet convinced this will really fit well with my personal style of using a computer.


    Quote Originally Posted by R0bR View Post
    As far as the Metro Apps I don't see what your concern is about their usability at this point in a work specific setting outside of personal use. Until developers start building more productivity or business apps they will be of little use in an enterprise setting.
    I agree completely. But they are so in your face out of the box and interesting to play with, so I've spent some time with them. And even on my work computer, just like my work cell phone, it's nice to have something checking my personal email and displaying my families shared calendar so I know what is going on.
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  10. #60


    Posts : 534
    Windows 7, Windows 8 RP


    Quote Originally Posted by FSeal View Post
    Dubious about the "more so" part as /at best/ one might bea ble to acheive parity of app launching IF you ignore the entire jarring behaviour of it over the start screen. But then one really arent USING metro for anything other than a huge star menu. Truly, if it never existed in 8 would anything be any more difficult? From my usage, it would in fact be easier if it simply weren't there at all. My argument all along is that iut's just useless annoying baggage on a workstation and I simply can't see how it isn't. Even if one does get used to it (as one MUST and I eventually will), there was really no purpose for it being there at all to begin with.
    Whatever you choose to believe is fine, I don't struggle with it and I don't force myself to like it or get used to it, I am used to the changes and they work for me. I don't find moving between Metro and Desktop to have jarring effects, but that's me and I understand it's an issue for others.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

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Apps screen too crowded.
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