Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums


Apps screen too crowded.

  1. #41


    Quote Originally Posted by HippsieGypsie View Post
    Live tiles that are at-a-glance informational and all in one place? Like active-scrolling unread emails -> various news/sports headlines -> weather in multiple cities -> Star Chart app info -> download notifications via the store -> personal game apps scores, just to name a few for starters. I'm sure more are being written. I think this is all being performed with less resources.
    However, on a single screen desktop/laptop moving to the Start Screen from the Classic Desktop means that while viewing all of these live tiles you aren't able to see other items that might be very important to monitor (like new emails coming into Outlook, or an instant message coming in via a corporate Microsoft Lync server, on your help/desk ticketing system which is a standard windows desktop app, etc). Also, the flip side is true. If I setup the Mail app on the Start Screen to monitor my Hotmail/Gmail account, and I'm in the desktop doing corporate stuff (Outlook, CRM, etc) and I turn to talk to a coworkers and a new email comes into Hotmail/Gmail..aside from the 3 second notification that pops up, I have no way of knowing that I have an email unless I switch back to the Start Screen and check the live tile. < This means I am going to miss a ton of stuff, or at least be delayed significantly in my response.

    Quote Originally Posted by HippsieGypsie View Post
    Here's a shot of my desktop. It will disappear soon. Probably by the next OS.
    Perhaps it will for you.

    For many of us though, we use and will continue to use a ton of standard Windows apps that simply aren't going to have suitable "new UI apps" for quite some time...probably not by the time we have a new OS. And until the point in time comes when "apps" can be truly resized and we can support more than 2 apps per monitor (one getting 320pixels, and the other the rest of the screen), many of us will simply struggle to make do with the current state of applications.

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  2. #42


    Quote Originally Posted by pparks1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by davehc View Post
    Exactly my point. Why moan about Metro clutter but, instead, clutter your desktop.- Why not use Metro. We are talking Windows 8 and it's features.
    In a very short amount of time, I've found that installing apps on Windows 8 creates tons of tiles. Installing apps on windows 7 creates a bunch of start menu entries (which I don't really have to see so that is no concern to me) and it also creates some desktop items. So, I find that there is far less clutter and less things to clean up on the desktop of Windows 7 than I have to clean up with Metro.

    I personally dislike programs that DO NOT create a program group under previous versions of Windows, but simply drop the application on the root of the Programs list. I never seem to be able to find them there. I feel this is exactly what I get with Metro. So instead of working out of the box for me, I have to spend my time organizing, sorting and arranging to make it useful. This is time that I would rather spend doing other things.
    Come on, Parks. Is that a legitimate and fair statement/argument? Does it really take more time to set up the Start Screen verses other past OSs? Please refer to my post #36 above.

    I'm on my 7 side right now and don't want to switch over, for I'm doing work, so I can't test right now. It just occured to me.....Right after an 8 install, if one groups the tiles immediately, then installs other apps or legacy programs, I wonder where the new tiles appear? Do they appear at the end of the Start screen? If so, then they're in a group to work on to unpin, name group, etc.
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  3. #43


    Quote Originally Posted by HippsieGypsie View Post
    Come on, Parks. Is that a legitimate and fair statement/argument? Does it really take more time to set up the Start Screen verses other past OSs? Please refer to my post #36 above.
    Yes, I think it's fair. When I install apps on Windows 8 I get more tiles than I get desktop icons in Windows 7. And yes, it takes me more time to remove all of the stuff that I don't want in 8, then it does to pin the few things that I do want in Windows 7.

    And on my desktop Windows PC, i tend to use Windows applications and have for years (imagine that). In a single monitor setup, having to be completely whisked away from being able to see everything on my desktop to simply find an application and launch it to me is just pointless.

    Does it have a cool look and feel? Yes it does.
    Can it be adjusted, sorted, aligned and labeled to make it more useful? Sure can.
    Am I excited about using it? Not really.
    Does it make me more productive or efficient? Not from what I can see.
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  4. #44


    Posts : 636
    Windows 7/8


    Quote Originally Posted by pparks1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by HippsieGypsie View Post
    Come on, Parks. Is that a legitimate and fair statement/argument? Does it really take more time to set up the Start Screen verses other past OSs? Please refer to my post #36 above.
    Yes, I think it's fair. When I install apps on Windows 8 I get more tiles than I get desktop icons in Windows 7. And yes, it takes me more time to remove all of the stuff that I don't want in 8, then it does to pin the few things that I do want in Windows 7.

    And on my desktop Windows PC, i tend to use Windows applications and have for years (imagine that). In a single monitor setup, having to be completely whisked away from being able to see everything on my desktop to simply find an application and launch it to me is just pointless.

    Does it have a cool look and feel? Yes it does.
    Can it be adjusted, sorted, aligned and labeled to make it more useful? Sure can.
    Am I excited about using it? Not really.
    Does it make me more productive or efficient? Not from what I can see.
    This has been my exact experience as well.

    I stated some time ago that with the start menu, you only had to organize it if you /wanted/ too. With Metro, you /have/ to organize it no matter what. So yeah, the metro start screen is more work to keep clean than the Windows 7 start menu/desktop. At least currently and possibly for all desktop apps installed from now on.

    I'm sure that Metro apps will be better behaved, but since the number of those will pale on most of my machines compared to the traditional workhorse apps I use every day, it is a problem (again) for us desktop users.
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  5. #45


    And on my desktop Windows PC, i tend to use Windows applications and have for years (imagine that). In a single monitor setup, having to be completely whisked away from being able to see everything on my desktop to simply find an application and launch it to me is just pointless.
    I'm a Pro builder and you're a Pro computer tech. You obviously use a computer far more than I do. I may have a drawing program, Excel open for entering estimating data, a browser for researching, and an building estimating reference book open. That's 4 where as you may have 10 programs going. I may only sit at my desk for 2 to 4 hours whereas you do all day. Lucky you?!

    We can argue semantics so far as personal choice until we're blue in the face. I understand that, bottom line, it's about production. Building is similar to computing in that it's about steps taken to achieve a goal. In building it's about taking the least amount of actions to install materials. I have a 12-inch slide compound mitre box saw with a stand that I use for most everything. It's my biggest money-maker. If me or an emplyee sets it up farther away than what is needed, it wastes valuable time, physical energy, and $profit$.

    So, we are talking about steps taken here. Let's forget about setting up an OS or continuing moving things around for personal taste, although I know you're the Pro and computing is your livelyhood. You have to set it up to take less steps just as I do with my jobsite saw and tools. I'll give you that it takes longer to set up 8, although I don't agree.

    I don't see the difference if I push the windows key for the Start Menu or the Start Screen. Or using the mouse to push the start button or the corner for the Start Screen. Once in either, I can start typing for what I need or I can search for what I need. What is the difference? I'm still continuing to take the same amount of steps, am I not?

    "Completely whisked away from being able to see everything on my desktop"? A little dramatic to me, but OK. I don't know about you, but I'm not looking at the desktop at this point. I'm concentrating on what I'm typing or what I'm looking for in the Start Menu....or the task bar....or the Task Manager. Unless one is going for a shortcut on the desktop it makes no difference.

    Does it have a cool look and feel? Yes it does.
    Can it be adjusted, sorted, aligned and labeled to make it more useful? Sure can.
    Am I excited about using it? Not really.
    Does it make me more productive or efficient? Not from what I can see.
    Oh Parks! I can see your warming up to it!
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  6. #46


    Quote Originally Posted by HippsieGypsie View Post
    I'm a Pro builder and you're a Pro computer tech. You obviously use a computer far more than I do. I may have a drawing program, Excel open for entering estimating data, a browser for researching, and an building estimating reference book open. That's 4 where as you may have 10 programs going. I may only sit at my desk for 2 to 4 hours whereas you do all day. Lucky you?!
    Yeah, it's good that it pays the bills...but yes I'm stuck at 1 of 3 PC's pretty much all day long. And lots of stuff opening and going on.


    Quote Originally Posted by HippsieGypsie View Post
    I don't see the difference if I push the windows key for the Start Menu or the Start Screen. Or using the mouse to push the start button or the corner for the Start Screen. Once in either, I can start typing for what I need or I can search for what I need. What is the difference? I'm still continuing to take the same amount of steps, am I not?
    The difference for me, when on my laptop, with a single screen, is that when I press that Windows key, or hit the Start Corner, or access the Start Screen from the charms bar that I am taken away from my desktop. I lose the visual of my taskbar, any command line windows open that might have been running scripts, any RDP windows that I adjusted to watch the progress of an installation or performance issue being tracked on a server, I lose the view of my corporate instant messenger (Microsoft Lync) which might be something that is important or critical that I have to respond to quickly. I lose the visual of Microsoft Outlook to see if I have any new email that has come in.

    There are times in my day, when I get caught up on work. And I'm getting ready to launch an application to play with something, but an email comes in that catches my eye and if it's a production system at work, I need to get cracking on it ASAP. If I happen to hit that Windows Key and get flopped over to an entirely different desktop for a bit, it's entirely possible, probably likely that I will miss that email for at least a period of time while I don't have view of my desktop.


    Quote Originally Posted by HippsieGypsie View Post
    "Completely whisked away from being able to see everything on my desktop"? A little dramatic to me, but OK. I don't know about you, but I'm not looking at the desktop at this point.
    Not dramatic for me. As stated above, we use Microsoft Lync as an Instant Messenger in our corporate environment. During the day, if I get up from my desk, or turn to talk to somebody, or access my other computers, I often times miss the toast message that pops up. Unfortunately, after just a few seconds, it fades away and I'm left with just a slightly different icon in my taskbar that is super easy to miss. I've installed a third party application called SuperToast, that if after a period of 2 minutes I haven't responded to an IM, it brings it up dead center on the screen and makes me take notice. You can already imagine my concern with flipping over to the Start Screen and missing things. It's almost like having a KVM where I have switched entirely to a different computer and I'm missing what is going on on the first computer.

    We are very different users. You aren't looking at the desktop anymore, and I'm almost exclusively looking at the desktop. These "metro" apps just don't have the functionality or the multi-tasking ability to make them usable to me. During my workday, I almost always have the following apps open (Outlook, Word, Excel, Microsoft Lync, Microsoft Dynamics, Vision App RDP client, Vsphere Client, a couple of ssh logins to Linux hosts, a web browser, media monkey and filezilla). And all of these apps are full blown standard Windows apps that launch and run on the desktop that I am looking at.
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  7. #47


    OK. That explains things to me better. I understand the wisking away part now. So it's basically when you're on a single monitor is where the problem lies and 8 just doesn't cut it on multi-monitors.....yet. I think M$ will do good thing for you Pros by OS 9, if I'm correct in my theory that they will eliminate the desktop and have a multi-pane and/or multi-monitor "new-kind-of-window" OS. I know it sounds far fetched, but possible.

    Thanks for answering. I learned a lot and continue to do so from you Pros.
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  8. #48


    The multi-monitor support of Win 8 is pretty good.

    I think alot have the same concerns I have who have not used Win8 on multimonitor. Many have tried win8 in a VM (thus single display), or have tried it on an older spare computer and likely only have 1 monitor.

    In a dual monitor setup, it's much better as you can keep "a" desktop always in view. Although when you have 2 displays, you often have things opened on both of them...so you still lose something when you switch away.

    While my main machine at work does indeed have 2 monitors, it's a laptop that I carry with me home everynight. Obviously I don't carry my second monitor with me, so I spend quite a bit of time on this machine using 1 monitor. My secondary and third machine at work are actually sharing 1 monitor (via a KVM) because my cube is just too small to squeeze in more monitors. It's my 3rd machine that I run Win8 on.
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  9. #49


    Posts : 636
    Windows 7/8


    Unless Metro apps get the ability to be resized and placed anywhere across multiple monitors like the desktop, then no, Metro will never replace it. But at that point Metro is just the desktop again...

    A bettter way to go with Windows 9 is to make metro apps resizable and placeable on the desktop (or full screen) just like any normal app. Not "trap" them in a barely partionable fullscreen cage.
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  10. #50


    Posts : 1,320
    Server 2012 / 8.0


    drifting off topic slightly

    To the annoyed:
    the desktop environment is here to stay.

    It is a necessary User Interface
    that you can count on
    for years.

    It will continue the tradition of Windows.

    The 8UI is a departure from layered and resizable Windows.

    It is a phone / tablet UI that
    cannot have resizable or overlapping "Window Frames"

    It is in the code structure of WinRT.
    How 8UI apps will be developed is controlled by WinRT.


    WinRT - the new Windows
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Apps screen too crowded.
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