Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums

A few questions

  1. #11


    Posts : 1,925
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    You do realize that you put more stress on those circuits by turning them off and on all the time than you do by leaving them on.

    But regardless, hybrid sleep allows you to do that and still recover exactly where you were (it treats it as hibernation).

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  2. #12


    Australia
    Posts : 716
    Windows 7 Ult Reatil & Win 8 Pro OEM


    That's not what I was taught when I was doing my Electronic Engineering Degree.

    From first hand experience my son and I upgraded to the same WiFi modem a few years ago. He left his on permanently. I turned mine off at the wall after every use. His carked it about a year ago and mine is still going strong.
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  3. #13


    Posts : 15
    Windows 7 Ultimate 64bit & Windows 8 RP 8400 64bit


    I shutdown and boot up my computer a few times per day. I simply don't like hibernate and sleep as I have had many problems with them before. My computer only takes a minute to turn on so the speed increase from hibernate and sleep isn't a benefit.

    Even if the hardware is stressed more from a shutdown then starting up the OS must be safer with a shutdown compared to a sleep/hibernate. Hardware stress doesn't even matter. You can tell how old most of my hardware is in my pc specs and I'm planning to do a complete upgrade very soon. If my hardware was going to fail overclocking would be the cause, not shutting down the computer instead of hibernating.
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  4. #14


    Posts : 1,925
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    It's quite easy to prove to yourself that electrical equipment fails most at the point its turned on. How many times have you turned on a light switch and had the bulb blow right then and there. How many times have you had it blow when it was in use? The former more often than the latter I will bet.

    I've also had more power supplies blow when turning on the computer (though this is mitigated somewhat in modern power supplies because they have constant voltage, but if you turn it off at the wall that doesn't help). Hard drives also fail most often when powering up.

    I didn't say anything about shutting down the computer vs hibernating. Hibernating causes a shutdown, and is identical to powering off. However sleep doesn't shut down all the current to the system, so there is no major surge when powering it up as there is with cutting off the power at the wall.
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  5. #15


    Australia
    Posts : 716
    Windows 7 Ult Reatil & Win 8 Pro OEM


    Quote Originally Posted by jtmzac View Post
    If my hardware was going to fail overclocking would be the cause, not shutting down the computer instead of hibernating.
    I would certainly agree that over clocking would be a much bigger factor in solid state circuitry degeneration. But even so, electronic components still have a finite number of hours usage. The stress due to shut down/reboot is not a factor compared to continuous use with either no shutdown or sleep/hiberation. And that especially applies to capacitors.
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  6. #16


    Posts : 15
    Windows 7 Ultimate 64bit & Windows 8 RP 8400 64bit


    This entire discussion has become rather off topic and pointless since I replace my hardware more often then the average pc user. 2-3 years between upgrades is pushing it for me. I really don't think the wear from shutting down and turning on would apply in this short of a time period especially since my hardware is good quality stuff.
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  7. #17


    Palm Coast FLorida
    Posts : 370
    Windows 8 Pro ($39.99 upgrade)


    Most of my computer component failures come from hard shutdowns.
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  8. #18


    Australia
    Posts : 716
    Windows 7 Ult Reatil & Win 8 Pro OEM


    Quote Originally Posted by jtmzac View Post
    I replace my hardware more often then the average pc user. 2-3 years between upgrades is pushing it for me. I really don't think the wear from shutting down and turning on would apply in this short of a time period especially since my hardware is good quality stuff.
    Yeah would have to agree with that in respect of good brand names, high quality control in manufacture and modern technology. I've never had a mobo componenet failure on a PC yet. But then I only use Intel/Intel mobo/CPU.

    I've still got my original PC with Win98 operational on it, which I've kept for antiquity.
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  9. #19


    I usually run my machines all the time, and I don't use sleep or hibernate. My concession to energy savings is allowing the monitor to shut off after about 15 minutes. I had a couple machines that ran virtually non-stop for 10+ years with very few problems. The main desktop I use now has run a long time (4 1/2 years, I think) without issues, and is usually shut down only for hardware maintenance (video and memory upgrade, and power supply upgrade).

    I think this is one of those "your mileage may vary" situations.
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  10. #20


    Australia
    Posts : 716
    Windows 7 Ult Reatil & Win 8 Pro OEM


    Quote Originally Posted by Mystere View Post
    It's quite easy to prove to yourself that electrical equipment fails most at the point its turned on. How many times have you turned on a light switch and had the bulb blow right then and there. How many times have you had it blow when it was in use? The former more often than the latter I will bet.

    I've also had more power supplies blow when turning on the computer (though this is mitigated somewhat in modern power supplies because they have constant voltage, but if you turn it off at the wall that doesn't help). Hard drives also fail most often when powering up.
    There is no comparison between 240/120 volts mains current heating a light globe filament, contained in a vacuum to prevent oxidation, and the circuitry on a mobo. Each time a globe is switched on and used, the resistance is slightly increased. The greater the resistance the greater the running temperature of the filament. Eventually, the point is reached where the temperature differential between the off/on state of the filament is so large, the sudden increase in temperature on start up, as opposed to the constant temp while the globe is running, is so great it burns out the filament.

    This is much more evident in the so called "long life, green friendly" energy saving halogen light globes, as opposed to the now banned tungsten filament globes. You only get the long life in halogen ones if you leave them on peramently, as opposed to many turn on/offs ... which kind of defeats the purpose. The only winners are the light globe manufacturers with cost of halogen globes being 3 to 4 times as much as tungsten ones.

    The power box in a PC runs on mains current 240/120V, but contains a step down transformer which reduces the mother board current to a few volts. So the switch on from cold start for a mobo is such a small voltage it is negligible in terms of "shock power" due to overheating. The solid state IC chips also have a fairly high +/- % tolerance allowance for variations in voltage compared to normal electrical devices. However, they are susceptible to static electricity which has quite high voltages albeit only small current flow.

    Therefore, it's no coincidence the main burn outs are in the power box at switch on. When a PC is only turned off by the GUI command using an electronic switch, the mains power is still flowing to the power box in the PC. And this constant "on" state wears it out quicker, and increases the potential for break down when the step down transformer comes into play when the PC is turned on! And if the step down transformer goes at boot up, it usually allows a high voltage overload current to the other components which is what fries your mobo, etc.

    After over ten years of multiple switch on/offs at the mains, I've never lost a power supply or mobo. I attribute this to minimizing wear on the power box by turning off the power at the wall outlet with an in-line open-wire I/O switch between the wall outlet and the multiple socket power board and the PC, as opposed to simply turning off the PC with an onboard electronic switch.

    Mains wall outlet --> inline I/O switch --> Power board with power cables --> PC, printer, modem, etc ... with the landline phone cable switched through the surge protected power board. Switching off the I/O switch protects everything except a backdoor through the land line phone cable. So I also unplug this at the ADSL filter.

    The I/O switch at the back of the PC will only protect the PC, but is not the answer if you want to protect all devices such as modem, printer, etc. Also even if the I/O on the PC is off, a current overload can still find a back door entry via the printer, (USB cable), modem, (if using a LAN cable). Or any other devices using mains power and wire connected to the PC.

    If you turn off your PC via the GUI command, and then power off at the mains supply, and then press the start button on the PC, there is enough residual current stored in the capacitors to make the fans/LED lights on your PC run for a second or two. Try it and see! And then all residual charge in the capacitors is drained. When you switch on the mains power charging the capacitors is like charging a flattened battery, only almost instant.

    My main concern is lightning strikes. However, if you turn off the mains power from the wall outlet; and unplug the phone landline at the ADSL filter, there is no chance of any danger from that. If I'm running my PC and an electrical storm starts up I immediately do this. I also leave it this way when I'm not using it, so if I happen to be out when an electrical storm occurs, it's still protected.

    I had two PCs switched off via the GUI, but with mains power still flowing to the power box in the PC. It was all protected by an RCD, (Residual Current Device), in my household meter box, and a power-surge-protected multi-plug board between the mains wall outlet and the PC, printer, modem, etc. Despite this the lightning still nuked both machines and ancillary plug ins. Since then, while always having the wall outlet turned off, despite many electrical storms, no nukes. Insurance is good, but you've still got to rebuild your rig and reload windows and programs, etc.
    Last edited by Mustang; 15 Aug 2012 at 02:31.
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