Metro Lovers -- Please tell me how to organise tiles for THESE

jimbo45

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Hi there
Installing a large complex application like the Adobe Master collection CS5 suite causes about 137 tiles to be generated -- which is extremely annoying and confusing.

With the old menu system you'd gate say ADOBE====>application1===sub menu 1 ====sub menu2 --sub menu 3
===>application2

etc. each of these submenus could have many other submenus and items as well. You could easily get to 6 levels or more !!.

Having several HUNDRED of those wretched little tiles and trying to find the application you want --you might not even KNOW it's name-- is a near impossible task.

You have to be careful when deleting the tiles as well because you don't know if you are deleting the wrong ones' It's actually HOPLESS having this type of application without showing it in some sort of Hierarchy.

Other large complex applications have similar problems when they are installed on W8 -- you could end up with 2,000 or more tiles.

Deleting the correct ones, getting to the executable file for the main application and sending it to the desktop as a short cut is a nightmare, takes forever to do and is a LOT of work. These are NOT simple stand alone applications -- and without some sort of hierarchial system Metro just won't fly for a lot of people -- and I seriously don't believe people if they think having 2,000 tiles at the same level spread out horizontally across your monitor where you need to scroll for about 2 km before finding anything helps productivity either when a simple drop down menu works perfectly.

Enc a screenshot of what I mean --- try installing Adobe master collection, full version of office with visio and project and full version of visual studio - and then tell me Metro is easy to handle with the 2,000 or more tiles you have to clean up. !!!


People just don't seem to get it -- a lot of applications can't be selected with a single mouse click --these are NOT tablet or mobile phone applications where this stuff works --but even on a phone you'd probably find 2,000 tiles rather too much to handle.

These tiles to be even remotely useful should have some sort of hierarchy possible rather than show everything at the same level.

Cheers
jimbo
 

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I'd be interested in knowing this answer as well. When i installed Office 2013 preview, I was irritated with the handful of tiles that were cluttering up the screen. It was beginning to remind me of my "all apps" button on my phone or tablet which is just a cluttered mess as far as I am concerned.
 

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Hi Jimbo,

well as I see it, Adobe Master Collection is a third party program to use in Windows. One can hardly blame MS for problems with third party programs.

Maybe installing Adobe etc without pinning it to the metro is a better solution, right?

Jeff
 

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Hi Jimbo,

well as I see it, Adobe Master Collection is a third party program to use in Windows. One can hardly blame MS for problems with third party programs.

Maybe installing Adobe etc without pinning it to the metro is a better solution, right?

Jeff
Hi jeff -- the tiles are generated automatically when the applications are installed. You can remove them but WHAT one's -- don't forget every entry in the sub menus is another tile - and how in the world in metro can you find out its place in the hierarchy.

You definitely HAVE to have a HIERARCHY or TREE structure for these type of applications -- and it's not just because they are 3rd party apps -- what use is a computer if we can't use things like photoshop either. I think almost any half way decent photographer on this planet uses Photoshop as standard. These Pro shooters won't want to be messing around with organising their metro tiles - especially if they have just done a busy shoot and need to process the pics quickly for pre-press or even for live transmission.

There's a HUGE difference in pressing on a tile on a phone application like finding the time of the next bus from the stop you are at when in London to getting at an item that might be buried at a low level in a hierarchy - but would be logically placed in the structure. The Bus application is essentially a simple ONE CLICK type of app -- maybe even ideal for metro -- but you can't do this for the scenario I've outlined - especially if you have to do other actions first - say in editing a photo.

Cheers
jimbo
 

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Hi Jimbo,

well as I see it, Adobe Master Collection is a third party program to use in Windows. One can hardly blame MS for problems with third party programs.
Well, Microsoft has to understand that third party applications like this will have tons of applications and that is exactly the reason why they had the hierarchical menu in the previous X number releases of Windows.

And as Jimbo stated, Install the full Office product or the Visual Studio product, which are Microsoft applications and they do exactly the same thing.


Maybe installing Adobe etc without pinning it to the metro is a better solution, right?

Jeff

How, does one go about doing that?
 

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I agree ... the Start Screen has a major design flaw in this regard. I installed a couple of applications (Office 2003 and SQL Server 2008 R2) then had to spend 5 or 10 minutes cleaning up the Metro so only the tiles I would use would be presented. I'm sorry, but this is nuts. The Start Menu would have them organized by folder. MS needs to fix this big-time. The Metro Start Screen needs a folder system.

The thing I don't get is how MS missed this. Even iOS has one level of folder capability. Metro has zero. What are they thinking up there in Redmond?
 

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You DO know you can place tiles in groups, right? Just move them to a new column, and it creates a new grouping. Makes it much easier to find things.
 

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Hello.

For those who wish to use or must use 8
I would say there is a way to manage
thousands of installation links.

UNPINNING is required
NOT DELETION or UNINSTALLATION.

Not related exactly, I have no use for
metro multimedia apps and it was necessary
to uninstall them.
Photo - Video - Messaging - Mail etc... as not usable...

to the point...
You can UNPIN hundreds of tiles in a few minutes.
Right clicking start screen tiles and unpinning is the way to go.

To offer something to your point about 2000 tiles (or links),
and hierarchical file and folder structures,
a Windows 8 UI version is there for anyone who cares to use it in the all apps area.

It is not necessary to remove unused links from the all apps area
but you may,
if you care to,

UNPIN all unused or less frequently used tiles (or links)
from the start screen
if you care to have a clean start screen. 

Even if you have 10,000 links,
they are all automatically and alphabetically grouped in the ALL APPS area.
Zooming in the all apps area cleans your ALL APPS view to allow for easy access to a specific group.


(for new users...) >
Simply right click on the start screen, select ALL APPS,
all groups are organized alphabetically
and can easily be reduced to top level group blocks by
pressing control and rolling your scroll wheel

or using the zoom hotspot with your mouse. Bottom Right Corner


My view is that the start screen is no place for group blocks
because there is not enough screen area to organize hundreds of links if you want everything on 1 page.

If you do not mind going sideways, then there is lots of space for all of your launch pads.
I like 1 start screen (not start screens...)

Applications or their associated links can be launched from the ALL APPS area.
The ALL APPS area is where group blocks are alphabetically created into a structured top level organization.

The start screen should be just that, a start screen, not a dumping ground
for hundreds of links.

It just takes an open point of view to use the ALL APPS area positively.

If hundreds of links are dumped into the start screen,
it is a problem of application design, not Windows 8 User Interface.


Group Blocks...
Screenshot (1).png


Screenshot (2).png


 
 
 
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Even better yet, not only does Semantic Zoom work, to ACTUALLY remove the clutter of tiles in All Apps you will never need to touch like some random program or help file, here is what one does.

Go to All Apps, scroll over to a folder group like Adobe Photoshop as I know that brings some random things I don't need. Then, right click on said tile link and on the bottom, there's a little icon that says Open file location. Click that. It takes you to the Desktop. That's where you'll be able to delete those tile links. You can navigate around the folders that are exposed in All Apps. Deleting the ALL the links in a folder removes that folder from view in All Apps.


It's a tad odd that the Desktop is used to manage the Start Screen, but it's like having to use DOS in Windows 95.
 

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You DO know you can place tiles in groups, right? Just move them to a new column, and it creates a new grouping. Makes it much easier to find things.

Hey Mystere,

Yup, I'm aware of that. What I don't get is why MS eliminated a hierarchical tree from the menu system. This is a design disaster. What next, a flat file system on the hard drive? Never mind the pesky directory system, let's just splash all the files into the root directory.

I'd fire the individual who designed the Metro screen myself. The tile system is relatively ugly but I can even forgive that. The design of the thing is very DOS 1.1 or CP/M.

-Max
 

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I would only keep the Icons for the Apps I want or use most to my start screen, similar to pinning to task bar or drop an icon on the desktop, and remove the others. If I wanted to access any of the less used applications in the suite I would look them up in the App list where Metro organizes them into their own Application heading automatically, much like the start menu does.

AppList.jpg
 

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Hi there
there are some suggestions here that in theory sound OK but two points here remain to be answered

1) How does the average joe know which are the "Useless" tiles and which are not. Now I've been using Photoshop for at least 12 years regularly and while some parts of the program I use very seldom I do use it so you unpin something -- and then how in the world do you "find it again".

2) Is your average person going to take their brand new computer home and then spend HOURS pinning / unpinning tiles , creating short cuts etc etc. Even sophisticated users of computers don't want to know about this sort of stuff -- they quite rightly will say -- I've got my CS5 install disk or Visual studio or whatever -- I've installed the product -- WHERE IS IT.

Not only that - due to the fixed size of the tiles --how do you easily see an application that might have a long name -- some applications do have longish names - particularly in Engineering and that type of work.

Most Pro photographers I know while being absolute masters of using Photoshop wouldn't have a CLUE about organising the metro system into any meaningful useable format. They quite rightly just want to logon and run their application.

Let's even go one step further.

Imagine Windows explorer didn't display anything any more in folders but just simply gave you all your files as file names -- no directory information -- duplicate file names would be renamed -001, -002 etc. So your windows explorer would just now show in alphabetical order a list of all the individual files on your system (which is essentially what Metro is doing). No directory info - but just a simple list of files.

Now I'd bet it would be impossible to go through that huge list and group the files together into their proper hierarchy.

Without some type of decent TREE structure where a Top level Metro tile could expand into lower sub levels I really can't see this type of interface ever being of any use other than for the most basic and simple of applications (as on a Mobile phone).

Take a relatively simple example in Real life.

You go to a restaurant . The owner has decided to change the menu so that everything is shown in a long simple list pictured as Metro tiles -- each item is a Tile.

It's not split into Starters, fish, meat, vegetarian, desserts, drinks etc. Just rows of tiles. Note also the NAME of each item has to be truncated as well so no item can have a name longer than say 7 characters either.

Just to confuse the customer more there's only two rows of tiles per page so each menu has about 10 pages so the customer has to keep endlessly scrolling pages to select their meal.

Of course this is an extreme case but you can see what happens if you can't get stuff into sensible groupings.

(Even if you organise the tiles like some have suggested Office under office say Ms word that's OK when there's only 1 Level -- but even for Office -- now look at OFFICE TOOLS you have ANOTHER level of hierarchy - for example office picture manager. So where would I store these. Do I have to make a separate top level for Office tools and then have Picture manager under it and if so how do I know that the Office tools is linked to the Office main application. -- No C'mon folks apart from extremely simple 1-click apps this whole Metro notion is a TOTAL DOGS DINNER).

Cheers
jimbo
 
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Well, the concept of the design is that it is visual. Now, before, the average joe never fooled around with the start menu and rarely did a clean up of the All Programs list. As that's why Start Screen was born. Instead of having folders and subfolders tucked away in a list view that many usually don't go through as the programs that they had installed have a link in the MFU portion of the menu. Even still, there was a little notification that told the user there are new programs installed and highlighted them. Great. But after a while, the start menu becomes a search menu as it's tedious just to go through folders and folders just to find something. Believe you me, try looking at a start menu of a hardcore PC gamer, it is disgusting.

With the Start Screen, the average joe installs a program, and that program link as well as some other items get pinned to the Start Screen. It sounds like it would become more clutter, but I think not. I think it promotes awareness to the user of what is on that PC. They see that the screen has expanded and they scroll over and see tiles there. Probably what will happen is that they will try to clean it up as it's visual and in front of you. Not so with the menu. The Start Screen is kind of like the Most Frequently Used portion of the menu, All Apps is All Programs.

But then, there is the fact that remains that there appears to be folders with ALL its contents displayed and appears there isn't a hierarchy in place. OK. The hierarchy really isn't gone in All Apps, it's just that there isn't a visible folder structure there, it's simply visual with all the folders in alphabetical ordering, but the main folder remains. There isn't a subfolder per se, I guess that's why you have issues with it. OK, great.

Probably the average joe doesn't know or realize that he can simply clear out what he doesn't want in All Apps view. OK, great. Just because SOME wouldn't figure it out, doesn't mean they won't or can't. It takes a bit of learning, you know about learning right? It's fantastic!

And as for those photographers that just need to run Photoshop right after logging in, pin the Photoshop tile to the Start Screen. BAM. After logging in, there is a tile link right there. Simple.
 

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Hi there

It's still not the same -- if you look at the office apps via the applications screen you get ALL the apps shown in one level which is exactly what I'm complaining about -- the HIERARCHY IS GONE.

enc two screenshots using the example I gave in the previous post of MSoffice===>Office tools===>picture manager

one using the apps screen and the other with a classic menu type of list (using classic shell installed on W8).

the Apps version is MUCH HARDER to get to picture manager than the classic menu structure.

Imagine when you've 100's of these apps.

For your gaming this might be a better system but for somebody using a lot of different applications which had loads of hierarchies sticking everything under the main application name just won't cut it.

Here's the two shots -- maybe it's just me but I find the classic menu structure HUGELY more easy to use - Metro is fine for simple one-click apps and I have no prob with it on a mobile phone.


In fact I've noticed a defect anyway with the applications screen -- where is the 2nd level hierarchy Office tools -- it's totally GONE from the application screen

Now this is not good news - the whole point is you don't want to clutter up everything into the same "box" -- it's easy with the menu to get direct to your application -- now with the new way I have to look through the WHOLE list to find what I want.

Cheers
jimbo
 

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This is how I have arranged mine?

View attachment 7759

Hi there
How did you restore the hierarchy and get the outside boundary with the title outside.

I can't see any options about getting this stuff split like this with the outside boundary - it certainly looks streets ahead of anything else out there -- and what happens when you actually click the folder office tools in your example.

As shown it still has the original defect I'm complaining about unless I can see what happens when you click the Office tools --can you post a screenshot.

I'm sure also re-arranging the stuff is a lot of work in any case. Coke robot's idea of just using the applications screen is too messy anyway - yours is much better - would be nice though to explain how it's done.

added found it -- still a lot of work though and quite complex to decide what really are the "Useless" tiles that created when a large product is installed.

interesting though that the apps application has the defect of losing the hierarchy. !!

I doubt if the average buyer will want to go through all this though -- it's more labour intensive than one think.

cheers
jimbo
 

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If I click on Tools, I am taken to the Folder in Windows explorer.


Tols.png

I have read of different methods of getting things in the Start menu. My preferred, method, for right or wrong, ios to pin required folders. shortcuts, and program exes to the start meno from windows explorer.
I do have to move them into my own required folders, but that is a once only deal.
 

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Hi Jimbo,

well you started again a good thread. I read it all, I not always do that, but that's me.

Still I think that MS is not to blame if third party programs do not show correctly. Maybe the third program maker should give the possibility to arrange tiles IN Windows like you ask (example).

I feel that Adobe should deliver programs that implement as needed for THEIR customers. And the same for other program makers.

One cannot expect MS to do this FOR Adobe, that is way to easy.

But your Adobe program probably is much older then Win 8, and maybe there lies the problem.

If MS has to look at every third party program that was on the market BEFORE Win8........

It is like having a fast car, but you want it to be faster, so you get it tuned, but this cost a lot. Now you want the manufacturer to arrange this while the car is made.

I think it does not work this way.

Jeff
 
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Hi there
@davehc Thanks

It's far far better than most of the stuff I've seen - I've got rid of all the "Pre-canned" apps (default ones after windows install) -- can't hide the Store app though but I can move it right to the end of the scroll so I'd never see it.

I can't see myself using on a computer some of these Ms apps - there's plenty of things like stock tickers and news that you can have working like the old "Gadgets" if you want to.

Cheers
jimbo
 
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    5 X 1 TB sata
    Internet Speed
    0.12 GB/s (120Mb/s)
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