Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums

Metro Lovers -- Please tell me how to organise tiles for THESE

  1. #11

    DeLand, FL
    Posts : 380
    Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit

    Quote Originally Posted by Mystere View Post
    You DO know you can place tiles in groups, right? Just move them to a new column, and it creates a new grouping. Makes it much easier to find things.
    Hey Mystere,

    Yup, I'm aware of that. What I don't get is why MS eliminated a hierarchical tree from the menu system. This is a design disaster. What next, a flat file system on the hard drive? Never mind the pesky directory system, let's just splash all the files into the root directory.

    I'd fire the individual who designed the Metro screen myself. The tile system is relatively ugly but I can even forgive that. The design of the thing is very DOS 1.1 or CP/M.


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  2. #12

    Posts : 534
    Windows 7, Windows 8 RP

    I would only keep the Icons for the Apps I want or use most to my start screen, similar to pinning to task bar or drop an icon on the desktop, and remove the others. If I wanted to access any of the less used applications in the suite I would look them up in the App list where Metro organizes them into their own Application heading automatically, much like the start menu does.

    Click image for larger version
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  3. #13

    Hafnarfjörður IS
    Posts : 4,376
    Linux Centos 7, W8.1, W7, W2K3 Server W10

    Hi there
    there are some suggestions here that in theory sound OK but two points here remain to be answered

    1) How does the average joe know which are the "Useless" tiles and which are not. Now I've been using Photoshop for at least 12 years regularly and while some parts of the program I use very seldom I do use it so you unpin something -- and then how in the world do you "find it again".

    2) Is your average person going to take their brand new computer home and then spend HOURS pinning / unpinning tiles , creating short cuts etc etc. Even sophisticated users of computers don't want to know about this sort of stuff -- they quite rightly will say -- I've got my CS5 install disk or Visual studio or whatever -- I've installed the product -- WHERE IS IT.

    Not only that - due to the fixed size of the tiles --how do you easily see an application that might have a long name -- some applications do have longish names - particularly in Engineering and that type of work.

    Most Pro photographers I know while being absolute masters of using Photoshop wouldn't have a CLUE about organising the metro system into any meaningful useable format. They quite rightly just want to logon and run their application.

    Let's even go one step further.

    Imagine Windows explorer didn't display anything any more in folders but just simply gave you all your files as file names -- no directory information -- duplicate file names would be renamed -001, -002 etc. So your windows explorer would just now show in alphabetical order a list of all the individual files on your system (which is essentially what Metro is doing). No directory info - but just a simple list of files.

    Now I'd bet it would be impossible to go through that huge list and group the files together into their proper hierarchy.

    Without some type of decent TREE structure where a Top level Metro tile could expand into lower sub levels I really can't see this type of interface ever being of any use other than for the most basic and simple of applications (as on a Mobile phone).

    Take a relatively simple example in Real life.

    You go to a restaurant . The owner has decided to change the menu so that everything is shown in a long simple list pictured as Metro tiles -- each item is a Tile.

    It's not split into Starters, fish, meat, vegetarian, desserts, drinks etc. Just rows of tiles. Note also the NAME of each item has to be truncated as well so no item can have a name longer than say 7 characters either.

    Just to confuse the customer more there's only two rows of tiles per page so each menu has about 10 pages so the customer has to keep endlessly scrolling pages to select their meal.

    Of course this is an extreme case but you can see what happens if you can't get stuff into sensible groupings.

    (Even if you organise the tiles like some have suggested Office under office say Ms word that's OK when there's only 1 Level -- but even for Office -- now look at OFFICE TOOLS you have ANOTHER level of hierarchy - for example office picture manager. So where would I store these. Do I have to make a separate top level for Office tools and then have Picture manager under it and if so how do I know that the Office tools is linked to the Office main application. -- No C'mon folks apart from extremely simple 1-click apps this whole Metro notion is a TOTAL DOGS DINNER).

    Last edited by jimbo45; 12 Aug 2012 at 03:44.
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  4. #14

    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro

    Well, the concept of the design is that it is visual. Now, before, the average joe never fooled around with the start menu and rarely did a clean up of the All Programs list. As that's why Start Screen was born. Instead of having folders and subfolders tucked away in a list view that many usually don't go through as the programs that they had installed have a link in the MFU portion of the menu. Even still, there was a little notification that told the user there are new programs installed and highlighted them. Great. But after a while, the start menu becomes a search menu as it's tedious just to go through folders and folders just to find something. Believe you me, try looking at a start menu of a hardcore PC gamer, it is disgusting.

    With the Start Screen, the average joe installs a program, and that program link as well as some other items get pinned to the Start Screen. It sounds like it would become more clutter, but I think not. I think it promotes awareness to the user of what is on that PC. They see that the screen has expanded and they scroll over and see tiles there. Probably what will happen is that they will try to clean it up as it's visual and in front of you. Not so with the menu. The Start Screen is kind of like the Most Frequently Used portion of the menu, All Apps is All Programs.

    But then, there is the fact that remains that there appears to be folders with ALL its contents displayed and appears there isn't a hierarchy in place. OK. The hierarchy really isn't gone in All Apps, it's just that there isn't a visible folder structure there, it's simply visual with all the folders in alphabetical ordering, but the main folder remains. There isn't a subfolder per se, I guess that's why you have issues with it. OK, great.

    Probably the average joe doesn't know or realize that he can simply clear out what he doesn't want in All Apps view. OK, great. Just because SOME wouldn't figure it out, doesn't mean they won't or can't. It takes a bit of learning, you know about learning right? It's fantastic!

    And as for those photographers that just need to run Photoshop right after logging in, pin the Photoshop tile to the Start Screen. BAM. After logging in, there is a tile link right there. Simple.
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  5. #15

    Hafnarfjörður IS
    Posts : 4,376
    Linux Centos 7, W8.1, W7, W2K3 Server W10

    Hi there

    It's still not the same -- if you look at the office apps via the applications screen you get ALL the apps shown in one level which is exactly what I'm complaining about -- the HIERARCHY IS GONE.

    enc two screenshots using the example I gave in the previous post of MSoffice===>Office tools===>picture manager

    one using the apps screen and the other with a classic menu type of list (using classic shell installed on W8).

    the Apps version is MUCH HARDER to get to picture manager than the classic menu structure.

    Imagine when you've 100's of these apps.

    For your gaming this might be a better system but for somebody using a lot of different applications which had loads of hierarchies sticking everything under the main application name just won't cut it.

    Here's the two shots -- maybe it's just me but I find the classic menu structure HUGELY more easy to use - Metro is fine for simple one-click apps and I have no prob with it on a mobile phone.

    In fact I've noticed a defect anyway with the applications screen -- where is the 2nd level hierarchy Office tools -- it's totally GONE from the application screen

    Now this is not good news - the whole point is you don't want to clutter up everything into the same "box" -- it's easy with the menu to get direct to your application -- now with the new way I have to look through the WHOLE list to find what I want.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails office.png   pic.png  
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  6. #16

    This is how I have arranged mine?

    Click image for larger version
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  7. #17

    Hafnarfjörður IS
    Posts : 4,376
    Linux Centos 7, W8.1, W7, W2K3 Server W10

    Quote Originally Posted by davehc View Post
    This is how I have arranged mine?

    Click image for larger version
    Hi there
    How did you restore the hierarchy and get the outside boundary with the title outside.

    I can't see any options about getting this stuff split like this with the outside boundary - it certainly looks streets ahead of anything else out there -- and what happens when you actually click the folder office tools in your example.

    As shown it still has the original defect I'm complaining about unless I can see what happens when you click the Office tools --can you post a screenshot.

    I'm sure also re-arranging the stuff is a lot of work in any case. Coke robot's idea of just using the applications screen is too messy anyway - yours is much better - would be nice though to explain how it's done.

    added found it -- still a lot of work though and quite complex to decide what really are the "Useless" tiles that created when a large product is installed.

    interesting though that the apps application has the defect of losing the hierarchy. !!

    I doubt if the average buyer will want to go through all this though -- it's more labour intensive than one think.

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  8. #18

    If I click on Tools, I am taken to the Folder in Windows explorer.

    Click image for larger version

    I have read of different methods of getting things in the Start menu. My preferred, method, for right or wrong, ios to pin required folders. shortcuts, and program exes to the start meno from windows explorer.
    I do have to move them into my own required folders, but that is a once only deal.
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  9. #19

    Posts : 503
    WINDOWS 8.1 x64

    Hi Jimbo,

    well you started again a good thread. I read it all, I not always do that, but that's me.

    Still I think that MS is not to blame if third party programs do not show correctly. Maybe the third program maker should give the possibility to arrange tiles IN Windows like you ask (example).

    I feel that Adobe should deliver programs that implement as needed for THEIR customers. And the same for other program makers.

    One cannot expect MS to do this FOR Adobe, that is way to easy.

    But your Adobe program probably is much older then Win 8, and maybe there lies the problem.

    If MS has to look at every third party program that was on the market BEFORE Win8........

    It is like having a fast car, but you want it to be faster, so you get it tuned, but this cost a lot. Now you want the manufacturer to arrange this while the car is made.

    I think it does not work this way.

    Last edited by jeffrys; 12 Aug 2012 at 12:32.
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  10. #20

    Hafnarfjörður IS
    Posts : 4,376
    Linux Centos 7, W8.1, W7, W2K3 Server W10

    Hi there
    @davehc Thanks

    It's far far better than most of the stuff I've seen - I've got rid of all the "Pre-canned" apps (default ones after windows install) -- can't hide the Store app though but I can move it right to the end of the scroll so I'd never see it.

    I can't see myself using on a computer some of these Ms apps - there's plenty of things like stock tickers and news that you can have working like the old "Gadgets" if you want to.

    Last edited by jimbo45; 12 Aug 2012 at 06:35.
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