Even most of those who love it, have to use 3rd party apps to love it!

musiclover7

Member
Member
Messages
219
I keep coming back into this forum from time to time, checking to see what is new with this coming OS. Love it or hate it, this is a huge transition for Microsoft and I for one am quite curious to see how this all plays out after launch.

What I keep noticing as I peruse these forums is that most in here fall into 1 of basically two categories. There are those who cannot stand the new interface (metro, lack of start button, start menu) and who are very frustrated with the changes after trying it out. This group I suspect is the larger of the two... Then there are those who love Windows 8 (they find it to be snappier, use less ram, etc). Most folks in this latter category have either managed to embrace the new UI and metro, or more often it seems, they have managed to use some 3rd party program to get Windows 8 to behave like good ol' Windows used to.

So what you see around here, are thread after thread where we have people posting their frustrations with the OS, and then we have people replying to them telling them that all they have to do is install this 3rd party app and everything will be peachy, it will behave just like 7 did.

To me this is no solution to the core problem, which is that Microsoft has once again taken away the power of choice from the end user. We don't get to choose. We are not smart enough it seems to know what we should like. I think they are in for a rude awakening. Can they not see that there is something completely wrong with having to install a 3rd party app in order to fix the core software on a computer day 1 upon purchase. Most average computer users will be challenged enough just using this new OS (as that video that went viral of the Dad on youtube clearly shows), let alone figuring out that there is an app out there that they might install to make their computer behave like they are used to it behaving.

Just another 2 cents dropped into the lonely pond of comments that Microsoft is choosing to ignore. That pile of sense is getting huge..
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro 64 Bit
    CPU
    Processor AMD Athlon(tm) II X4 635 Processor, 2800 Mhz, 4 Core(s), 4 Logical Processor(s)
    Memory
    8gb
    Graphics Card(s)
    Nvidia GTX 460
There is something not quite striking the right note in MS Product Management.

I don't know what it is. Either they have the wrong people as Product Managers, or someone keeps overriding them.

They are trying something very big and risky here.

I don't get why they are breaking the rules.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    7/8/ubuntu/Linux Deepin
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
There is a thing called, transitions....

It's about something new. That I think is the HUGEST issue people will have with 8. It's just too new and doesn't act like the old.

If one gave the option to have that start menu and button there, do you honestly think YOU or many other people would use the new? Probably not. It might be due to beliefs that the old is better, it might be that people are more familiar with the old. It would defeat the WHOLE purpose of the new in Windows 8. Why even bother, one might ask? That's evolution of technology, it can, it has to, and will change.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    ASUS
    CPU
    AMD FX 8320
    Motherboard
    Crosshair V Formula-Z
    Memory
    16 gig DDR3
    Graphics Card(s)
    ASUS R9 270
    Screen Resolution
    1440x900
    Hard Drives
    1 TB Seagate Barracuda (starting to hate Seagate)
    x2 3 TB Toshibas
    Windows 8.1 is installed on a SanDisk Ultra Plus 256 GB
    PSU
    OCZ 500 watt
    Case
    A current work in progres as I'll be building the physical case myself. It shall be fantastic.
    Cooling
    Arctic Cooler with 3 heatpipes
    Keyboard
    Logitech K750 wireless solar powered keyboard
    Mouse
    Microsoft Touch Mouse
    Browser
    Internet Explorer 11
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender, but I might go back on KIS 2014
They are trying something very big and risky here.

I don't get why they are breaking the rules.

I have to say it's because of the Windows Phone team with WP 7.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    ASUS
    CPU
    AMD FX 8320
    Motherboard
    Crosshair V Formula-Z
    Memory
    16 gig DDR3
    Graphics Card(s)
    ASUS R9 270
    Screen Resolution
    1440x900
    Hard Drives
    1 TB Seagate Barracuda (starting to hate Seagate)
    x2 3 TB Toshibas
    Windows 8.1 is installed on a SanDisk Ultra Plus 256 GB
    PSU
    OCZ 500 watt
    Case
    A current work in progres as I'll be building the physical case myself. It shall be fantastic.
    Cooling
    Arctic Cooler with 3 heatpipes
    Keyboard
    Logitech K750 wireless solar powered keyboard
    Mouse
    Microsoft Touch Mouse
    Browser
    Internet Explorer 11
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender, but I might go back on KIS 2014
I keep finding new ways of using Win8, just like I did with Win95!

Tully
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Win 10 Beta
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Home Assembled
    CPU
    Intel I5
    Motherboard
    ASUS P8Z&&-V LX
    Memory
    8 GB DDR2 SDRAM
    Graphics Card(s)
    Intel on board
    Sound Card
    INTEL ON MB
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Samsung TD390 HDMI
    Screen Resolution
    1920 X 1080
    Hard Drives
    Crucial MX100 512GB SSD
    2TB Storage
    External Seagate "Dashboard" File Backup Drive USB3
    WD "My Cloud" 4TB
    Samsung Super Write Master 24 DVD Writer
    PSU
    Cosair
    Case
    Corsair
    Cooling
    AIR
    Keyboard
    Advent USB Keyboard
    Mouse
    Advent USB
    Internet Speed
    200 MB dwn 30MB up
    Browser
    IE 11 Win 10
    Antivirus
    MS Essentials
    Other Info
    USB2 & USB3
If one gave the option to have that start menu and button there, do you honestly think YOU or many other people would use the new?

There are several answers to that.

If people do not use the "new" it is because they do not want the "new" , they do not like the "new", the "new" is bad.

In reality, I think they would use it. But they would use it voluntarily, willingly, and in their own way.

Even those who need the main interface for most of their activities would dip into metro from time to time - to access an app. for example.

The most important thing is - they chose to do it.

That would be vastly better for MS.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    7/8/ubuntu/Linux Deepin
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
I know that I will be forced to use metro apps in the future. But I sure wish the entire Metro UI could be "detached" and placed in a window of the proper size on my desktop. On a 24 in monitor that size would be NO MORE than 1/4 of the screen size for virtually every metro app I've seen so far.

Then you could full screen it like a normal app, shrink to the task bar, resize and place on secondary monitor with your live tiles running.

If it did all that I'd be ALL OVER metro! There would be nothing whatsoever wrong with it on the desktop (as far as the UI goes).

If I was a Lead Architect at Microsoft I would have fought for that until the day they fired me for not towing the line :/

If someone could come up with a way of "subclassing" the start screen and everything launched from it and contain it in a window, it would be ghodly. Heh maybe run WIndows 8 in a VM on the desktop for windows 8?!? :D That might work...
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 7/8
Will be interesting to see what the rtm brings.

@Cokie, think about this one.

Whatever else you think of Apple:

When Apple release a product - they always get it right ( well, almost always). It sells enormously and dominates it's target segment.

When MS release a product - they sometimes get it sort of right - often they get it wrong - sometimes badly wrong.

Why?
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    7/8/ubuntu/Linux Deepin
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
Will be interesting to see what the rtm brings. @Cokie, think about this one. Whatever else you think of Apple: When Apple release a product - they always get it right ( well, almost always). It sells enormously and dominates it's target segment. When MS release a product - they sometimes get it sort of right - often they get it wrong - sometimes badly wrong. Why?
Well, it's probably because Apple never takes stupid risks. Each new version of OSX adds in new features that integrate well with the existing system. Each new iPhone is slightly better. I'm not fan of macs (I actually dislike using them when developing iOS apps), but I know that Apple's gradual smartphoneizing of OSX (fullscreen apps, notification shade, app store) is a LOT less stupid then MS & win8, because all of the new features work with everything else that was already there. Microsoft on the other hand, just decides to bolt on a smartphone UI that barely interacts or integrates with the older desktop.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8 RTM (Retinas taking damage...)
    CPU
    i5 2500
    Motherboard
    msi p67a-g43
    Memory
    16 GB DDR3 1333
    Graphics Card(s)
    2x Nvidia 9800 GTX+
Will be interesting to see what the rtm brings. @Cokie, think about this one. Whatever else you think of Apple: When Apple release a product - they always get it right ( well, almost always). It sells enormously and dominates it's target segment. When MS release a product - they sometimes get it sort of right - often they get it wrong - sometimes badly wrong. Why?
Well, it's probably because Apple never takes stupid risks. Each new version of OSX adds in new features that integrate well with the existing system. Each new iPhone is slightly better. I'm not fan of macs (I actually dislike using them when developing iOS apps), but I know that Apple's gradual smartphoneizing of OSX (fullscreen apps, notification shade, app store) is a LOT less stupid then MS & win8, because all of the new features work with everything else that was already there. Microsoft on the other hand, just decides to bolt on a smartphone UI that barely interacts or integrates with the older desktop.

Exactly, if the Metro UI elemetns had blended into the desktop it would have been fine, great even. Still a bit controversial about the app store etc but the UI itself would have been zero problem on the desktop :/ Then /maybe/ sell a metro only version (like the RT version) for like $20 you can put on a small "desktop" computer that would see nothing but "small" scope use.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 7/8
There is a thing called, transitions....

It's about something new. That I think is the HUGEST issue people will have with 8. It's just too new and doesn't act like the old.

If one gave the option to have that start menu and button there, do you honestly think YOU or many other people would use the new? Probably not. It might be due to beliefs that the old is better, it might be that people are more familiar with the old. It would defeat the WHOLE purpose of the new in Windows 8. Why even bother, one might ask? That's evolution of technology, it can, it has to, and will change.

I disagree on some levels. It boils down to choice, or in this instance, the lack of choice. I think many consumers will feel bullied by Microsoft's decision to release the OS this way. I predict the response will be worse than vista. I spend at least 8 hours a day, 5-6 days a week working in Windows remotely supporting hospitals throughout the country, and I honestly cannot imagine doing this in Windows 8 as it is. I almost want to laugh when I think about it. Very few business will adopt this because it is just hard to be productive in this environment when you are used to the other. Please don't reply to this statement saying that all you have to do is install start menu 3rd party app. That is a solution for some, but not most or all. I doubt many IT professionals are going to want to install a 3rd party program that alters the gui in windows from its vanilla form. I just can't see this happening. There are a couple things I think Microsoft could do to make this change more palpable.

1) On first boot, the OS should ask if you want to run in Tablet mode, or Desktop mode? You have a choice. In tablet, the os loads to metro, and metro is the focus of the OS. In Desktop mode, the OS loads to desktop. The start button is still present, and the option is there where you want to see the classic start menu of old, or the metro start screen when you click on it.

2) Let us customize the start screen. Let us choose a decent custom background. Let us change the default icons to something we can actually recognize. Change the size of them if need be. For instance, if I plan on rarely using one app, and frequently using another, let me make the app I use often large with some sort of custom icon so I can easily find it. I have the impression that the whole metro screen was designed by people who have no design skills what-so-ever.

I think choice is the key. If you want us to start using something, make it better than what we already have so that it is appealing to us. Don't make it a poor excuse for 2012 level software and then force us to use it. I can see some pretty big potential with Metro if it gets implemented even close to as it should. Implemented as it is, they have no right to act surprised when the back lash comes as it will..
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro 64 Bit
    CPU
    Processor AMD Athlon(tm) II X4 635 Processor, 2800 Mhz, 4 Core(s), 4 Logical Processor(s)
    Memory
    8gb
    Graphics Card(s)
    Nvidia GTX 460
Will be interesting to see what the rtm brings. @Cokie, think about this one. Whatever else you think of Apple: When Apple release a product - they always get it right ( well, almost always). It sells enormously and dominates it's target segment. When MS release a product - they sometimes get it sort of right - often they get it wrong - sometimes badly wrong. Why?
Well, it's probably because Apple never takes stupid risks. Each new version of OSX adds in new features that integrate well with the existing system. Each new iPhone is slightly better. I'm not fan of macs (I actually dislike using them when developing iOS apps), but I know that Apple's gradual smartphoneizing of OSX (fullscreen apps, notification shade, app store) is a LOT less stupid then MS & win8, because all of the new features work with everything else that was already there. Microsoft on the other hand, just decides to bolt on a smartphone UI that barely interacts or integrates with the older desktop.

It is not about taking risks. I am not an apple fan boy, I spend all of my computer time working on windows machines, in a lot of cases administering to Linux servers, but even I can tell that Apple innovates like no other tech company out there. Just take a look at Steve giving his shpeal at the iphone release keynote on youtube. That phone was so far ahead of any of its competitors at the time it was not even funny, and it is true that nearly every company has copied the design in some way since. You have to understand, that there is something mighty appealing to a lot of people about an operating system that has literally stayed the same in its core form for over 10 years now. There are additional changes/improvements that have been added along the way, but the core software was good enough at the start that it has stayed the same and has remained loved by many for 10+ years. It is not about taking risks.. it is about designing a good product, and giving your customers what they want, not what you think is best for them. Apple does a very good job of putting themselves in their customer's shoes, which is something that I judge Microsoft needs to learn from, using this release as an example...
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro 64 Bit
    CPU
    Processor AMD Athlon(tm) II X4 635 Processor, 2800 Mhz, 4 Core(s), 4 Logical Processor(s)
    Memory
    8gb
    Graphics Card(s)
    Nvidia GTX 460
If one gave the option to have that start menu and button there, do you honestly think YOU or many other people would use the new? Probably not.

Careful!! Take a look at what you wrote there... It is extremely true, and also scary if you think about it.. You are making my point perfectly!
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro 64 Bit
    CPU
    Processor AMD Athlon(tm) II X4 635 Processor, 2800 Mhz, 4 Core(s), 4 Logical Processor(s)
    Memory
    8gb
    Graphics Card(s)
    Nvidia GTX 460
It is not about taking risks. I am not an apple fan boy, I spend all of my computer time working on windows machines, in a lot of cases administering to Linux servers, but even I can tell that Apple innovates like no other tech company out there. Just take a look at Steve giving his shpeal at the iphone release keynote on youtube. That phone was so far ahead of any of its competitors at the time it was not even funny, and it is true that nearly every company has copied the design in some way since. You have to understand, that there is something mighty appealing to a lot of people about an operating system that has literally stayed the same in its core form for over 10 years now. There are additional changes/improvements that have been added along the way, but the core software was good enough at the start that it has stayed the same and has remained loved by many for 10+ years. It is not about taking risks.. it is about designing a good product, and giving your customers what they want, not what you think is best for them. Apple does a very good job of putting themselves in their customer's shoes, which is something that I judge Microsoft needs to learn from, using this release as an example...
It actually is about not taking risks. The original iPhone was not a risk. All other phones on the market were a pile of featureless software and crappy hardware. Apple just did the obvious and made a phone that didn't suck. Apple also hasn't made revolutionary hardware or software in years. Each new macbook is like the last one but better. Each new OSX is like the last one with a few new features. Apple even made an emulator when they switched to x86 sp people could use all of their old applications.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8 RTM (Retinas taking damage...)
    CPU
    i5 2500
    Motherboard
    msi p67a-g43
    Memory
    16 GB DDR3 1333
    Graphics Card(s)
    2x Nvidia 9800 GTX+
One free, extremely simple to install, third-party app is all it takes to make Windows 8 perfectly usable for us Desktop fossils. Classic Shell. You get a nice start menu and boot directly to Desktop. Metro is still there for any who want to explore it.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 7
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Compac Presario SR5518F
    CPU
    Dual Pentium E2180 (2 GHz)
    Motherboard
    MS-7525 (Boston)
    Memory
    4 GB
    Graphics Card(s)
    Nvidia GeForce 8500 GT
One free, extremely simple to install, third-party app is all it takes to make Windows 8 perfectly usable for us Desktop fossils. Classic Shell. You get a nice start menu and boot directly to Desktop. Metro is still there for any who want to explore it.
Or skip the download of Classic Shell altogether, save your $40 on Win8, and continue using Windows 7. Doesn't get easier than this; :p
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 7
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Self-Built in July 2009
    CPU
    Intel Q9550 2.83Ghz OC'd to 3.40Ghz
    Motherboard
    Gigabyte GA-EP45-UD3R rev. 1.1, F12 BIOS
    Memory
    8GB G.Skill PI DDR2-800, 4-4-4-12 timings
    Graphics Card(s)
    EVGA 1280MB Nvidia GeForce GTX570
    Sound Card
    Realtek ALC899A 8 channel onboard audio
    Monitor(s) Displays
    23" Acer x233H
    Screen Resolution
    1920x1080
    Hard Drives
    Intel X25-M 80GB Gen 2 SSD
    Western Digital 1TB Caviar Black, 32MB cache. WD1001FALS
    PSU
    Corsair 620HX modular
    Case
    Antec P182
    Cooling
    stock
    Keyboard
    ABS M1 Mechanical
    Mouse
    Logitech G9 Laser Mouse
    Internet Speed
    15/2 cable modem
    Other Info
    Windows and Linux enthusiast. Logitech G35 Headset.
It is not about taking risks. I am not an apple fan boy, I spend all of my computer time working on windows machines, in a lot of cases administering to Linux servers, but even I can tell that Apple innovates like no other tech company out there. Just take a look at Steve giving his shpeal at the iphone release keynote on youtube. That phone was so far ahead of any of its competitors at the time it was not even funny, and it is true that nearly every company has copied the design in some way since. You have to understand, that there is something mighty appealing to a lot of people about an operating system that has literally stayed the same in its core form for over 10 years now. There are additional changes/improvements that have been added along the way, but the core software was good enough at the start that it has stayed the same and has remained loved by many for 10+ years. It is not about taking risks.. it is about designing a good product, and giving your customers what they want, not what you think is best for them. Apple does a very good job of putting themselves in their customer's shoes, which is something that I judge Microsoft needs to learn from, using this release as an example...
It actually is about not taking risks. The original iPhone was not a risk. All other phones on the market were a pile of featureless software and crappy hardware. Apple just did the obvious and made a phone that didn't suck. Apple also hasn't made revolutionary hardware or software in years. Each new macbook is like the last one but better. Each new OSX is like the last one with a few new features. Apple even made an emulator when they switched to x86 sp people could use all of their old applications.

No, I think it just comes back to the old saying, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". Apple did more than make a phone that did not suck with the iphone. They made a phone that was years ahead of any other phone on the market. I don't see Windows 8 Metro as a great risk, I see it as folly. Apple won't go about making a massive change to their Operating environment, one that in test runs has pissed of a huge percentage of those who have tested it, only because they are afraid of taking risks. I think it more has to do with the fact that they are a pretty smart company who, unlike Microsoft, is willing to listen to the feedback they get from their customers. It is not about taking a risk. You don't steer your ship down into crappy water and accuse a smarter company of not taking risks. All you are really doing is accusing them of being smart.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro 64 Bit
    CPU
    Processor AMD Athlon(tm) II X4 635 Processor, 2800 Mhz, 4 Core(s), 4 Logical Processor(s)
    Memory
    8gb
    Graphics Card(s)
    Nvidia GTX 460
No, I think it just comes back to the old saying, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". Apple did more than make a phone that did not suck with the iphone. They made a phone that was years ahead of any other phone on the market.
I'm not saying the iPhone wasn't years ahead of the competition. I'm saying that the competition was crap. Apple did the obvious by making a good phone, while the existing manufacturers and carriers were happy to sell their overpriced, laggy and locked down garbage. The iPhone was definitely revolutionary, but it definitely wasn't risky.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8 RTM (Retinas taking damage...)
    CPU
    i5 2500
    Motherboard
    msi p67a-g43
    Memory
    16 GB DDR3 1333
    Graphics Card(s)
    2x Nvidia 9800 GTX+
No, I think it just comes back to the old saying, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". Apple did more than make a phone that did not suck with the iphone. They made a phone that was years ahead of any other phone on the market.
I'm not saying the iPhone wasn't years ahead of the competition. I'm saying that the competition was crap. Apple did the obvious by making a good phone, while the existing manufacturers and carriers were happy to sell their overpriced, laggy and locked down garbage. The iPhone was definitely revolutionary, but it definitely wasn't risky.

Well.. if the reason for all this change in Windows 8 is to be risky, then I guess I prefer a less risky company. I mean, I use Windows products every day, but when I look at what they are cooking up down the line, I wish they would exercise more caution. I don't see their willingness to take a risk with this to be a good attribute, I guess is what I am saying. I see it as completely negative. It is true that all smart phones sucked prior to the Iphone, but we did not really know that they sucked until the iPhone came out to make the point. It is true that there was no risk involved, because the iPhone was clearly better than what we had before. Windows 8, is not clearly better. Many around here, myself included, have argued that it is worse then what we had before, and so yeah, I suppose there is great 'risk' involved in their design. The reason there is great risk, is because it is not clearly better.. how exactly is this a good thing? It is neither a good thing nor something to be proud of imho.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro 64 Bit
    CPU
    Processor AMD Athlon(tm) II X4 635 Processor, 2800 Mhz, 4 Core(s), 4 Logical Processor(s)
    Memory
    8gb
    Graphics Card(s)
    Nvidia GTX 460
One free, extremely simple to install, third-party app is all it takes to make Windows 8 perfectly usable for us Desktop fossils. Classic Shell. You get a nice start menu and boot directly to Desktop. Metro is still there for any who want to explore it.

Responses like this, are the reason I created this thread in the first place...
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro 64 Bit
    CPU
    Processor AMD Athlon(tm) II X4 635 Processor, 2800 Mhz, 4 Core(s), 4 Logical Processor(s)
    Memory
    8gb
    Graphics Card(s)
    Nvidia GTX 460
Back
Top