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  1. #21


    Posts : 299
    win 7 home premium 64 bit


    My thoughts about Windows 8 are the same as Musiclover7, but the reason why Apple is a success is not only because the product is necessarily best, but because Apple consumers are not generally as savvy about the technical aspects of the OS functions ect as the typical MS customer.

    I would almost say that Apple has a captive audience because these people buy for trendiness, and cool factor, not so much because the product is so much better than the competition. MS needs to remember this.

    Windows and OSX (Apple) are two VERY different customer bases, and trying to be like Apple takes away a primary reason for their existence.

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  2. #22


    Quote Originally Posted by legacy7955 View Post
    but the reason why Apple is a success is not only because the product is necessarily best, but because Apple consumers are not generally as savvy about the technical aspects of the OS functions ect as the typical MS customer.
    Some of my very savvy IT friends who actually own MacBook's Pros and MacBook Air's might just disagree with you on this one.

    Apple sells quite a bit of product because
    1). They are trendy
    2). They have good built quality
    3). They have gorgeous screens
    4). They have solid customer service.
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  3. #23


    Posts : 299
    win 7 home premium 64 bit


    Quote Originally Posted by pparks1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by legacy7955 View Post
    but the reason why Apple is a success is not only because the product is necessarily best, but because Apple consumers are not generally as savvy about the technical aspects of the OS functions ect as the typical MS customer.
    Some of my very savvy IT friends who actually own MacBook's Pros and MacBook Air's might just disagree with you on this one.

    Apple sells quite a bit of product because
    1). They are trendy
    2). They have good built quality
    3). They have gorgeous screens
    4). They have solid customer service.
    Perhaps so, but is the price of entry really REALLY worth it? I'm not sold.

    I've heard that lately over the past several years that the customer service is not as good as it once was.

    As for build quality while the cases might be better than some PC OEMs I would bet that many of the enterprise products from Lenovo, HP, and Dell are as good or better, and of course the internal hardware is actually the same Chinese junk that is put into all the OEM PC stuff for the most part.
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  4. #24


    Quote Originally Posted by legacy7955 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by pparks1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by legacy7955 View Post
    but the reason why Apple is a success is not only because the product is necessarily best, but because Apple consumers are not generally as savvy about the technical aspects of the OS functions ect as the typical MS customer.
    Some of my very savvy IT friends who actually own MacBook's Pros and MacBook Air's might just disagree with you on this one.

    Apple sells quite a bit of product because
    1). They are trendy
    2). They have good built quality
    3). They have gorgeous screens
    4). They have solid customer service.
    Perhaps so, but is the price of entry really REALLY worth it? I'm not sold.

    I've heard that lately over the past several years that the customer service is not as good as it once was.

    As for build quality while the cases might be better than some PC OEMs I would bet that many of the enterprise products from Lenovo, HP, and Dell are as good or better, and of course the internal hardware is actually the same Chinese junk that is put into all the OEM PC stuff for the most part.
    The price of admission is why I don't have a mac, even for a learning experience.

    Build quality though, is solid. If you have ever worked on a mac, they have fabulous screens, both the iMac's and the MacBooks. You won't find a single mac with a crappy monitor, but you will find tons of PC's with crappy low-end monitors. And I've always had the enterprise versions of the Dell laptops (latitude)

    And when you have a problem, if you have an Apple store nearby, just waltz in and they take care of you. That's why lots of people love 'em.
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  5. #25


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by SIW2 View Post
    Will be interesting to see what the rtm brings.

    @Cokie, think about this one.

    Whatever else you think of Apple:

    When Apple release a product - they always get it right ( well, almost always). It sells enormously and dominates it's target segment.

    When MS release a product - they sometimes get it sort of right - often they get it wrong - sometimes badly wrong.

    Why?
    I have to respond with this, apple followers are nothing more than cult followers. Literally, the new 19 pin port of the iphone made the news across several sites. Seriously. People follow apple like it's the second coming of Jesus Christ Himself.

    Also, apple tends to get it right when they release a "new" product (Antennagate, quick draining batteries, exploding batteries, Siri). They believe that THEY know what the consumer wants, not the other way around. So, yeah, you could say they don't take risks. But after a while, it gets absurd to buy a "new" apple product as it's a tidbit better than the previous. Like for example, the new iphone 5. Some leaked images of it basically render it as a taller iphone 4 (notice I didn't use iphone 4S as the 4S is just the iphone 4 with Siri and a bit better camera). There have been a few articles that actually speculate that there might be a waning in the following of apple as they don't innovate anymore. I was expecting an actual new iphone that changes the game as it's been six years since the first iphone that changed the game, but it's simply the same as before, as the last one was, as the last one was, as the last one was. I think you get my meaning here. Same goes for the mac lineup. Their "new" macbooks with the retina display (stupid name for a high resolution screen), apple makes it out as a revolution, but their macs are nothing new since their "new" ones are just thinner than the last one, thinner than the one before, and thinner than the one before but with a better screen and trackpad. They may know what the consumer wants, if the what the consumer wants is design stagnation and being told what they want because it's apple, you don't say no to apple. To me, I would go ape poop and postal if I couldn't change the color scheme to red.

    But when Microsoft releases a new product, there are the usual complaints that they're trying to jack you of your money only to have you with a slow puter (user stupidity I believe). After a few months, adoption of the new Microsoft product happens and people exclaim that it's better than the cat's meow. vista is the exception, no one wanted vista, not even Microsoft themselves. Take for example, the Windows Phone 7. They could had just killed the Windows Mobile line altogether and just left that arena. But as a software company they didn't. So they made a HUGE risk in rebuilding the platform I believe from scratch basically because they had two options: continue developing a dead in the water OS, or rebuild it into something new and at least say you tried to do something better. They chose the latter. What resulted is a phone OS that the users of it just love using. It's genuinely hard to find a user of it that doesn't like using it. It's generally more positive than anything. Now, the Windows Phone 7 isn't something what people per se wanted, they never asked for it. Microsoft didn't have it fully feature complete until the 7.5 update. But they got it right, and got it even more right with Windows Phone 8. They adapt to changes in the market to have an offering to consumers to CHOOSE from the others. Actually, a reason to have a Windows Phone or Windows 8 is simply because it doesn't act or look like the others, it's not a rip off of apple products, it's not something that it shouldn't be.

    Or, if they release a new product to compete with the others and it fails, like the Zune, it's primarily because of an abhorrent lack of marketing. Tell me, how many ipod commercials you've seen versus Zune commercials? Or for that matter, Windows Phone over iphone adverts?
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  6. #26


    Posts : 62
    Microsoft Windows


    Best solution: Use Classic Shell on Windows 7. It has its advantages of a way more customizable Start Menu over Windows 7 or Vista's Start Menus.
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  7. #27


    Posts : 5,360
    7/8/ubuntu/Linux Deepin


    They believe that THEY know what the consumer want
    Yes, they do know what the customer wants.

    That is why their products do so well.

    It is not by accident.

    It is called product management.
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  8. #28


    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    But after a while, it gets absurd to buy a "new" apple product as it's a tidbit better than the previous. Like for example, the new iphone 5
    I would argue that it's absurd to buy each and every iteration of an apple product. The people who buy the iPad, then must have the iPad2, and now the new iPad.

    However, my wife has an iPhone 3GS and has had it now for 3 years. It's been solid, no problems. But it's getting old, it's a bit slower, it's a bit bigger and the battery isn't really holding a charge like it used to. She has looked at the iPhone4, but simply won't buy it because of the glass back, (since we have kids, this phone gets dropped regularly). So, the iPhone5 is appealing to her because it eliminates the glass back. It keeps most of the things the same that she loves about the iPhone, but changes the thing that she doesn't. So, there would be nothing absurd whatsoever about her buying the new iPhone5.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    There have been a few articles that actually speculate that there might be a waning in the following of apple as they don't innovate anymore
    Well, in the past 10 years they have pretty much set the gold standard for MP3 players (iPod), cell phones (iPhone) and tablets (iPad). I think their track record for innovation is pretty solid. I cannot think of many other companies having this level of success with total market domination.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    They may know what the consumer wants, if the what the consumer wants is design stagnation and being told what they want because it's apple, you don't say no to apple
    As I said above, my wife has had an iPhone for 3 years. She loves it. I've had a blackberry and a droid during this time frame. She hasn't cared for either of them. For anybody who owns a blackberry or a droid, pulling the battery is something that you have to do from time to time to fix issues. Well, for an iPhone owner, there is no battery to pull. It's something they don't have to do. For somebody like my wife, she would rather have tried and true, something that works, something that won't radically change the way she does things. So, you call it design stagnation and she calls it, "no reason to fix what isn't broken".

    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    After a few months, adoption of the new Microsoft product happens and people exclaim that it's better than the cat's meow
    Really????? I don't feel that Microsoft really gets that much praise from the consumers in most instances.
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  9. #29


    Posts : 5,360
    7/8/ubuntu/Linux Deepin


    There have been a few articles that actually speculate that there might be a waning in the following of apple as they don't innovate anymore
    Yes, there is something in that.

    They have done unbelievably well up to now.

    That is because they have the best product management I have ever seen.

    It is not feasible they will continue to release genuinely new products every couple of years.

    I believe the share price is expecting they will - it isn't going to happen.

    They are embarking on a program of product life extension.

    You will notice they are moving into price different brackets - Tim Cook said as much himself.

    Absolutely the right thing to do, until they can again come up with something else ground breaking.

    They can't continue the same growth rate - they are vulnerable to attack - witness the success of HTC for example.
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  10. #30


    I agree!

    Just use it as is, or dump it!

    This 3rd party stuff is just a put-off!

    I am getting more out of it every day!

    Don't try to change the spots on the Leopard!

    Tully
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