Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums


Even most of those who love it, have to use 3rd party apps to love it!

  1. #11


    Posts : 219
    Windows 8.1 Pro 64 Bit


    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    There is a thing called, transitions....

    It's about something new. That I think is the HUGEST issue people will have with 8. It's just too new and doesn't act like the old.

    If one gave the option to have that start menu and button there, do you honestly think YOU or many other people would use the new? Probably not. It might be due to beliefs that the old is better, it might be that people are more familiar with the old. It would defeat the WHOLE purpose of the new in Windows 8. Why even bother, one might ask? That's evolution of technology, it can, it has to, and will change.
    I disagree on some levels. It boils down to choice, or in this instance, the lack of choice. I think many consumers will feel bullied by Microsoft's decision to release the OS this way. I predict the response will be worse than vista. I spend at least 8 hours a day, 5-6 days a week working in Windows remotely supporting hospitals throughout the country, and I honestly cannot imagine doing this in Windows 8 as it is. I almost want to laugh when I think about it. Very few business will adopt this because it is just hard to be productive in this environment when you are used to the other. Please don't reply to this statement saying that all you have to do is install start menu 3rd party app. That is a solution for some, but not most or all. I doubt many IT professionals are going to want to install a 3rd party program that alters the gui in windows from its vanilla form. I just can't see this happening. There are a couple things I think Microsoft could do to make this change more palpable.

    1) On first boot, the OS should ask if you want to run in Tablet mode, or Desktop mode? You have a choice. In tablet, the os loads to metro, and metro is the focus of the OS. In Desktop mode, the OS loads to desktop. The start button is still present, and the option is there where you want to see the classic start menu of old, or the metro start screen when you click on it.

    2) Let us customize the start screen. Let us choose a decent custom background. Let us change the default icons to something we can actually recognize. Change the size of them if need be. For instance, if I plan on rarely using one app, and frequently using another, let me make the app I use often large with some sort of custom icon so I can easily find it. I have the impression that the whole metro screen was designed by people who have no design skills what-so-ever.

    I think choice is the key. If you want us to start using something, make it better than what we already have so that it is appealing to us. Don't make it a poor excuse for 2012 level software and then force us to use it. I can see some pretty big potential with Metro if it gets implemented even close to as it should. Implemented as it is, they have no right to act surprised when the back lash comes as it will..

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  2. #12


    Posts : 219
    Windows 8.1 Pro 64 Bit


    Quote Originally Posted by phailyoor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SIW2 View Post
    Will be interesting to see what the rtm brings. @Cokie, think about this one. Whatever else you think of Apple: When Apple release a product - they always get it right ( well, almost always). It sells enormously and dominates it's target segment. When MS release a product - they sometimes get it sort of right - often they get it wrong - sometimes badly wrong. Why?
    Well, it's probably because Apple never takes stupid risks. Each new version of OSX adds in new features that integrate well with the existing system. Each new iPhone is slightly better. I'm not fan of macs (I actually dislike using them when developing iOS apps), but I know that Apple's gradual smartphoneizing of OSX (fullscreen apps, notification shade, app store) is a LOT less stupid then MS & win8, because all of the new features work with everything else that was already there. Microsoft on the other hand, just decides to bolt on a smartphone UI that barely interacts or integrates with the older desktop.
    It is not about taking risks. I am not an apple fan boy, I spend all of my computer time working on windows machines, in a lot of cases administering to Linux servers, but even I can tell that Apple innovates like no other tech company out there. Just take a look at Steve giving his shpeal at the iphone release keynote on youtube. That phone was so far ahead of any of its competitors at the time it was not even funny, and it is true that nearly every company has copied the design in some way since. You have to understand, that there is something mighty appealing to a lot of people about an operating system that has literally stayed the same in its core form for over 10 years now. There are additional changes/improvements that have been added along the way, but the core software was good enough at the start that it has stayed the same and has remained loved by many for 10+ years. It is not about taking risks.. it is about designing a good product, and giving your customers what they want, not what you think is best for them. Apple does a very good job of putting themselves in their customer's shoes, which is something that I judge Microsoft needs to learn from, using this release as an example...
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  3. #13


    Posts : 219
    Windows 8.1 Pro 64 Bit


    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    If one gave the option to have that start menu and button there, do you honestly think YOU or many other people would use the new? Probably not.
    Careful!! Take a look at what you wrote there... It is extremely true, and also scary if you think about it.. You are making my point perfectly!
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  4. #14


    Posts : 248
    Windows 8 RTM (Retinas taking damage...)


    Quote Originally Posted by musiclover7 View Post
    It is not about taking risks. I am not an apple fan boy, I spend all of my computer time working on windows machines, in a lot of cases administering to Linux servers, but even I can tell that Apple innovates like no other tech company out there. Just take a look at Steve giving his shpeal at the iphone release keynote on youtube. That phone was so far ahead of any of its competitors at the time it was not even funny, and it is true that nearly every company has copied the design in some way since. You have to understand, that there is something mighty appealing to a lot of people about an operating system that has literally stayed the same in its core form for over 10 years now. There are additional changes/improvements that have been added along the way, but the core software was good enough at the start that it has stayed the same and has remained loved by many for 10+ years. It is not about taking risks.. it is about designing a good product, and giving your customers what they want, not what you think is best for them. Apple does a very good job of putting themselves in their customer's shoes, which is something that I judge Microsoft needs to learn from, using this release as an example...
    It actually is about not taking risks. The original iPhone was not a risk. All other phones on the market were a pile of featureless software and crappy hardware. Apple just did the obvious and made a phone that didn't suck. Apple also hasn't made revolutionary hardware or software in years. Each new macbook is like the last one but better. Each new OSX is like the last one with a few new features. Apple even made an emulator when they switched to x86 sp people could use all of their old applications.
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  5. #15


    One free, extremely simple to install, third-party app is all it takes to make Windows 8 perfectly usable for us Desktop fossils. Classic Shell. You get a nice start menu and boot directly to Desktop. Metro is still there for any who want to explore it.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  6. #16


    Quote Originally Posted by sgage View Post
    One free, extremely simple to install, third-party app is all it takes to make Windows 8 perfectly usable for us Desktop fossils. Classic Shell. You get a nice start menu and boot directly to Desktop. Metro is still there for any who want to explore it.
    Or skip the download of Classic Shell altogether, save your $40 on Win8, and continue using Windows 7. Doesn't get easier than this;
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  7. #17


    Posts : 219
    Windows 8.1 Pro 64 Bit


    Quote Originally Posted by phailyoor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by musiclover7 View Post
    It is not about taking risks. I am not an apple fan boy, I spend all of my computer time working on windows machines, in a lot of cases administering to Linux servers, but even I can tell that Apple innovates like no other tech company out there. Just take a look at Steve giving his shpeal at the iphone release keynote on youtube. That phone was so far ahead of any of its competitors at the time it was not even funny, and it is true that nearly every company has copied the design in some way since. You have to understand, that there is something mighty appealing to a lot of people about an operating system that has literally stayed the same in its core form for over 10 years now. There are additional changes/improvements that have been added along the way, but the core software was good enough at the start that it has stayed the same and has remained loved by many for 10+ years. It is not about taking risks.. it is about designing a good product, and giving your customers what they want, not what you think is best for them. Apple does a very good job of putting themselves in their customer's shoes, which is something that I judge Microsoft needs to learn from, using this release as an example...
    It actually is about not taking risks. The original iPhone was not a risk. All other phones on the market were a pile of featureless software and crappy hardware. Apple just did the obvious and made a phone that didn't suck. Apple also hasn't made revolutionary hardware or software in years. Each new macbook is like the last one but better. Each new OSX is like the last one with a few new features. Apple even made an emulator when they switched to x86 sp people could use all of their old applications.
    No, I think it just comes back to the old saying, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". Apple did more than make a phone that did not suck with the iphone. They made a phone that was years ahead of any other phone on the market. I don't see Windows 8 Metro as a great risk, I see it as folly. Apple won't go about making a massive change to their Operating environment, one that in test runs has pissed of a huge percentage of those who have tested it, only because they are afraid of taking risks. I think it more has to do with the fact that they are a pretty smart company who, unlike Microsoft, is willing to listen to the feedback they get from their customers. It is not about taking a risk. You don't steer your ship down into crappy water and accuse a smarter company of not taking risks. All you are really doing is accusing them of being smart.
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  8. #18


    Posts : 248
    Windows 8 RTM (Retinas taking damage...)


    Quote Originally Posted by musiclover7 View Post
    No, I think it just comes back to the old saying, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". Apple did more than make a phone that did not suck with the iphone. They made a phone that was years ahead of any other phone on the market.
    I'm not saying the iPhone wasn't years ahead of the competition. I'm saying that the competition was crap. Apple did the obvious by making a good phone, while the existing manufacturers and carriers were happy to sell their overpriced, laggy and locked down garbage. The iPhone was definitely revolutionary, but it definitely wasn't risky.
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  9. #19


    Posts : 219
    Windows 8.1 Pro 64 Bit


    Quote Originally Posted by phailyoor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by musiclover7 View Post
    No, I think it just comes back to the old saying, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". Apple did more than make a phone that did not suck with the iphone. They made a phone that was years ahead of any other phone on the market.
    I'm not saying the iPhone wasn't years ahead of the competition. I'm saying that the competition was crap. Apple did the obvious by making a good phone, while the existing manufacturers and carriers were happy to sell their overpriced, laggy and locked down garbage. The iPhone was definitely revolutionary, but it definitely wasn't risky.
    Well.. if the reason for all this change in Windows 8 is to be risky, then I guess I prefer a less risky company. I mean, I use Windows products every day, but when I look at what they are cooking up down the line, I wish they would exercise more caution. I don't see their willingness to take a risk with this to be a good attribute, I guess is what I am saying. I see it as completely negative. It is true that all smart phones sucked prior to the Iphone, but we did not really know that they sucked until the iPhone came out to make the point. It is true that there was no risk involved, because the iPhone was clearly better than what we had before. Windows 8, is not clearly better. Many around here, myself included, have argued that it is worse then what we had before, and so yeah, I suppose there is great 'risk' involved in their design. The reason there is great risk, is because it is not clearly better.. how exactly is this a good thing? It is neither a good thing nor something to be proud of imho.
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  10. #20


    Posts : 219
    Windows 8.1 Pro 64 Bit


    Quote Originally Posted by sgage View Post
    One free, extremely simple to install, third-party app is all it takes to make Windows 8 perfectly usable for us Desktop fossils. Classic Shell. You get a nice start menu and boot directly to Desktop. Metro is still there for any who want to explore it.
    Responses like this, are the reason I created this thread in the first place...
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

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