Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums

My logic behind Microsoft's controversial decision: Removal of Start

  1. #71

    HippsieGypsie, how do you define skin?

    I still stand behind my statement that Metro UI like it is not a skin. I hesitated to reply earlier because I wanted to do some research and get my facts straight first.

    First of all Metro apps and classic desktop apps behave entirely differently. Classic desktop apps have your control menu in the upper left, and your three buttons in the upper right, that is minimize maximize in close. Also classic desktop apps do not have to take the whole screen, And you can always arrange them side-by-side within the desktop or overlapping lapping etc.

    Metro apps do not behave this way. They always take up an entire screen or part of the screen if snapped vertically. That is way more than a skin. The behavior between classic desktop apps at Metro apps are very different. Metro apps did not have a border and they do not even have a close button.

    WinRT is part of BOTH Intel and ARM devices. Think of it as the part of Windows 8 that is Metro only. It is shorthand for Windows Runtime. Windows RT is is ARM only edition of Windows 8. MS sure came up with confusing names! I just double checked Wikipedia to be sure.

    Most of the Office 2013 beta apps are STILL desktop based and not true Metro apps. They have the Metro look and feel, but still have the window borders of classic desktop programs with the system menu in the upper left corner and the three buttons in the upper corner. There is one exception. OneNote MX is available for download from the Store. It is a true Metro app.

    I just noticed all the Office 2013 beta apps, although they run in the desktop, will automatically bring up the touch keyboard on my tablet. So far only Metro apps have done that. Interesting... I suppose that means that the bulk of the Office 2013 beta apps are hybrid apps. I found an article that states that they have the touch feature if you enable the touch button on the ribbon bar. The article was actually not very complementary of office 2013's touch interface.

    It is my understanding that Windows RT, which is the ARM tablet edition of Windows 8, can only run Metro UI apps and not classic desktop apps. It will be interesting to see how Office 2013 apps run on ARM tablets.

    I am basing my NOT a skin comments on my background as a Microsoft developer. I am studying their latest version of Visual Studio which has a separate version for only Metro UI apps. Believe me it is an entirely different animal. When you say consume consume consume, SIW2' you're really talking about Metro apps will only be purchased through the Store. There is nothing to prevent desktop apps from being purchased separate from the Store, although some are purchased there.

    Perhaps we're coming from a consumer versus developer perspective difference? And it is safe to say, that Metro versus desktop are at the least two different environments within one OS.

    That said I fear I have taken this thread away from its original topic and won't hijack it any further...

      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  2. #72

    Thank you, Skallal, for answering and so quickly. It answers a lot for me, especially the difference between legacy desktop programs and Metro apps.

    I appreciate and respect your decision on not continuing getting more side tracked so far as the topic of the thread. It is at my fault that we did so. In so far as my questions about OSs, programs, apps, and the like, I very much appreciate everyone's answers, mainly on how software is written. I'll let you gentlemen work out the subject of "skins".

    "Skin" to me is the appearance of an OS, program, app, web page, etc. within it's "Window(s)" and/or pages. -> e.g. what optional "skin" of this forum I choose to view it in. Whether "Metro" is a skin, an app, or a means of writing an app doesn't so much concern me at this point in time.

    I was originally trying to interject my thoughts and logic of the original subject of ["My logic behind Microsoft's controversial decision: Removal of Start" (Button, not to be critical, which should have been included)] This includes my idea that M$ is not only removing certain elements, but producing a different, controversial OS all together which is to head in a certain, different direction unlike past OSs.

    So, I have come to the conclusion that all legacy programs (whether M$ or 3rd party) will eventually be written as M$ apps only to be added via their store, therefore allowing one to personalize their device or devices for there personal "target" use of their device or devices. e.g. -> I'll have a choice whether to buy/add the whole of Office or buy/add a certain component such as Word, Excel, PowerPoint, etc. Or "rent" it as I've read in a recent article.

    I think this is a Win/Win for not only for M$, 3rd party software companies, and app writers for their goal of what seems to be that "vulgar, unholy" word spelled "Profit", but also for the end user.

    Everyone likes things their way. I believe that I am not being "forced" to buy into this. It's just that I personally think this a good idea and enjoy the Metro look and feel. I will pound this home one last time: I believe eventually I will be able to personalize my devices as I see fit, not like as in the past with other OSs where it seems for the most part M$ saw fit. I will decide how much I choose to add and spend in doing so even if I think the price is justified or not. Enterprise will be able to also.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  3. #73

    Posts : 6
    Windows 8 Review Preview

    The one thing I am struggling with is to turn off the PC. I run the curser up and down the right hand side of the screen, sometimes several times before the settings buttons appear. It may work better with a touch screen but feel the experience could be better.

    Apart from that I am getting on fine with it and love the better integration with Skydrive.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  4. #74

    Hi, Chris 1000 Oaks. Welcome to the Windows EightForums. I'm glad you like SkyDrive if that's what you choose.

    A little off topic, but we all do it from time to time. The power button was a little chore for me to get to. The four corners are important in Windows 8 whether using a touch device, touch peripheral, or a mouse curser. Point to the upper right of the screen of the Metro Start Screen, program, or Metro app and the Charms Bar appears with a Charms menu. The Charms bar is designated for that particular Metro Start Screen, program, or Metro app you are viewing.

    This helped me so far as shutting down. Hybrid Shut Down Shortcut - Create in Windows 8 There are some for sleep, hybornation, and restart.

    There are tons of tutorials here to help out. There are no help files, "Welcome to Windows", or "Let's get started".

    Not to embarrass you, I suggest you tweak your profile, for I'm pretty sure Florida is not a state of the UK, unless there is your purpose for that.

    Again, welcome and have fun.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  5. #75

    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Lonewolf View Post
    Everyone is saying this and that about Apple, WHAT no one has mention, is that Metro is similar to the Apple O/S 6 thru 9. And being a former iMac user the metro interface wasn't a biggie for myself to pick up and learn. To be absolutely honest, Mac O/S was better set up as the desktop interface. The only difference is, Mac O/S used the upper top left corner, and Microsoft is using the lower left corner. Go ahead and see for yourself. move your mouse as far lower left as you can, then click the right mouse button. It's magical!
    Ew. mac. How is it similar?
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  6. #76

    Posts : 993
    Windows 8 pro Retail

    I mean in the menu, not the interface. Mac O/S has a upper mouse click area, and now Windows 8 has a lower click area to bring up the guts menu (so to say) see the included photo.

    Click image for larger version
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  7. #77

    Posts : 5,360
    7/8/ubuntu/Linux Deepin

    It might seem very peculiar MS has removed the full start menu and replaced it with that truncated version.

    I wonder if anybody else has figured out why?

    That should generate a lot of hilarious responses.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  8. #78

    Posts : 207
    Windows 8.1 update 1 Pro X64 with WMC

    Quote Originally Posted by SIW2 View Post
    It might seem very peculiar MS has removed the full start menu and replaced it with that truncated version.

    I wonder if anybody else has figured out why?

    That should generate a lot of hilarious responses.
    to have to same system on all there things to make it easier to sync everything ect
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  9. #79

    Quote Originally Posted by SIW2 View Post
    It might seem very peculiar MS has removed the full start menu and replaced it with that truncated version.

    I wonder if anybody else has figured out why?

    That should generate a lot of hilarious responses.
    Although true, you'll probably find this funny -> Because they're going to get rid of the desktop altogether. Another good reason to justify my forecast -> The Guts menu and the Charms Bar. More reasons why one would not need a desktop. Also keep in mind the four-corner navigation. BTW The Guts Menu is actually a right click over the appearing miniature Start Screen when one points to the lower left corner.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  10. #80

    Posts : 993
    Windows 8 pro Retail

    True HippsieGypsie, just called it that because it REALLY does have the guts (so to say) of Windows 8 in it.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

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My logic behind Microsoft's controversial decision: Removal of Start
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