Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums


Will you upgrade? That is the question...

View Poll Results: Will you be upgrading to Windows 8?

Voters
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  • Yes

    72 46.45%
  • Maybe

    32 20.65%
  • No

    51 32.90%
  1. #141


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by XFactor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by XFactor View Post
    So let me see if I've I'm reading you right. This means you can buy a stand alone installation disc for a full version of Mac OS X and install it on your home built PC?
    I once looked into that and no, not unless you have the required Intel hardware. You can't simply take the mac os disk and install it on a PC. You technically can, as those are called hackintoshes that use a modified image of the mac os to make it install on non-apple Kremlin Big Brother approved hardware.
    Thank you for that input, most interesting. This is a very wide reaching forum.

    One question. How would you know what Intel hardware to buy, or does Intel specify it works for Mac on their web site data?
    It's usually the top end, overkill Intel processor, but I believe there are some sites that actually have the requirements of the processor to do that. If you want to play around with the mac os through an easier path, Ubuntu 10 has a similar feel to it. I find the mac os to be bland. I like colors...

      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  2. #142


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by FSeal View Post
    Ack.. poor Poppa Bear. Probably had a bit too much of the Fosters before posting (I've don't that, it's never a good thing)

    Frankly I'll have to be upgrading, not sure when or how deeply (I have a lot of machines to care for). But really there is no choice.

    I would actually be considering jumping to Mac myself after what.. 25? 30? years of Microsoft loyalty. But I can't stomach Apples legal "war" and I too would really miss building my own systems. And though I use Linux daily, it's just SO not even on the radar for anything I do personally. Chrome OS's "everything is the cloud" mantra is completely dead on arrival (for me). So what's left? Hanging my head and saying "Yes Sir" to Microsoft. Something I've never once felt like I had to do before.

    Really feel like I'm being dragged around by the nose on this one and that not something I take to at all.
    Is it just the Start Screen or the metro apps that cause you pain, just wondering a bit?
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  3. #143


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by 714 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by XFactor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    I once looked into that and no, not unless you have the required Intel hardware. You can't simply take the mac os disk and install it on a PC. You technically can, as those are called hackintoshes that use a modified image of the mac os to make it install on non-apple Kremlin Big Brother approved hardware.
    Thank you for that input, most interesting. This is a very wide reaching forum.

    One question. How would you know what Intel hardware to buy, or does Intel specify it works for Mac on their web site data?
    Basically, if you have decent hardware (Intel Core 2 Duo and up), it is relatively easy to install OS X on a PC without using some cracked version of it.
    Bob Roche - YouTube this guy does alot of Mac stuff on PC
    Doesn't the latest x.2.3.32.5.3.3.1.3.34.1 iteration of mac os require a higher end processor for decent performance? I remember apple ditching Core Duo in deference for the i series, maybe because there's an i in its name.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  4. #144


    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by 714 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by XFactor View Post
    Thank you for that input, most interesting. This is a very wide reaching forum.

    One question. How would you know what Intel hardware to buy, or does Intel specify it works for Mac on their web site data?
    Basically, if you have decent hardware (Intel Core 2 Duo and up), it is relatively easy to install OS X on a PC without using some cracked version of it.
    Bob Roche - YouTube this guy does alot of Mac stuff on PC
    Doesn't the latest x.2.3.32.5.3.3.1.3.34.1 iteration of mac os require a higher end processor for decent performance? I remember apple ditching Core Duo in deference for the i series, maybe because there's an i in its name.
    I've installed 10.6 and 10.7 on Intel Core 2 Duos. In fact, yesterday, I installed OS X on a Core 2 Duo 10.7 with all the updates yesterday. It was a Sony Vaio with 3.0 Gigs of RAM, The Core 2 Duo, and onboard Intel Graphics.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  5. #145


    Australia
    Posts : 716
    Windows 7 Ult Reatil & Win 8 Pro OEM


    Quote Originally Posted by Phone Man View Post
    I hesitate to continue this off-topic subject, but no one seems to care.

    PDF file from Diskeeper on SSD defrag.

    http://storage.condusiv.com/28117/pd...Technology.pdf

    From what I have read at other sites a normal HDD defrag utility should not be used on a SSD. Diskeeper has developed a special defrag for SSD's called HyperFast while some SSD vendors have developed a similar system they refer to as Garbage Collection. If your SSD has the proper Garbage Collection algorithm them no "defrag" is needed.

    Don't defrag an SSD - Optimize it.

    Jim
    I've been following the discussion in this thread on defragmenting SSDs and the PDF article you have referred to is very interesting. When I got my first SSD a few months ago I had discussions with the technical support section of the manufacturer Corsair, as to whether I might have damaged it because I had defragged it a couple of times in ignorance. This was Corsair's reply in part:

    1. The SSDs we develop will last up to 20 years even if you write more than 20GB of information a day (which is well beyond the normal user). I believe you will replace your system long before you replace the SSD.

    2. The defrag does not damage the drive but will put onto the drive a very large number of writes and re-writes so your drive will start to slow down faster than those drives you do not defrag.

    3. Windows 7 TRIM is meant to pro-actively delete corrupt or obsolete data on the SSD, and is set to run by default. However, it only works on single disk installations, and even though running in Windows, is not necessarily being implemented on the hard drive. For TRIM to function, the operating system, storage drivers and solid-state drive must all support the TRIM command.

    The second part of their statement in point two, implies that SSDs do slow down over time.

    The question I really want to ask you is if you have any first hand knowledge of the validity of the tests done by Diskeeper/Hyperfast or is there a better program?

    Thank you in anticipation.
    Last edited by Mustang; 15 Jul 2012 at 06:59.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  6. #146


    Toronto, Canada. Born in the U.K.
    Posts : 691
    Win 10 Pro + Win 7 Ult SP1 (x64)


    The trouble is that some defragmenters use the term 'Optimize' in lieu of Defragment (Raxco PerfectDisk for one) so one could easily be confused and suffer from the problem mentioned in #2 unless one is diligent.

    However Raxco PD does say in the Help section:

    Solid State Drives are not affected by file fragmentation like traditional electromechanical disk drives. However, free space consolidation can improve SSD write performance. The SSD Optimize defrag method is a special defrag method for SSD drives that focuses on free space consolidation without defragmentation of files. As such, it will leave files in a fragmented state while consolidating free space into large pieces.
    With Diskeeper it appears that it automatically selects the right process rather than you having to select it manually, correct? From the help section:

    Also known as SSD, a data storage device that uses solid state memory instead of spinning magnetic platters to store data. Although it is quite different in its physical nature from a hard disk drive, a solid state drive simply appears to users, most applications, and the operating system as another disk drive on the computer. However, due to the physical differences between solid state memory and a spinning magnetic platter, the specialized techniques used by Diskeeper (and HyperFast) to achieve maximum performance from SSD devices differ from those used on typical hard disk drives.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  7. #147


    Australia
    Posts : 716
    Windows 7 Ult Reatil & Win 8 Pro OEM


    Quote Originally Posted by Ex_Brit View Post
    The trouble is that some defragmenters use the term 'Optimize' in lieu of Defragment (Raxco PerfectDisk for one) so one could easily be confused and suffer from the problem mentioned in #2 unless one is diligent.

    However Raxco PD does say in the Help section:

    Solid State Drives are not affected by file fragmentation like traditional electromechanical disk drives. However, free space consolidation can improve SSD write performance. The SSD Optimize defrag method is a special defrag method for SSD drives that focuses on free space consolidation without defragmentation of files. As such, it will leave files in a fragmented state while consolidating free space into large pieces.
    With Diskeeper it appears that it automatically selects the right process rather than you having to select it manually, correct? From the help section:

    Also known as SSD, a data storage device that uses solid state memory instead of spinning magnetic platters to store data. Although it is quite different in its physical nature from a hard disk drive, a solid state drive simply appears to users, most applications, and the operating system as another disk drive on the computer. However, due to the physical differences between solid state memory and a spinning magnetic platter, the specialized techniques used by Diskeeper (and HyperFast) to achieve maximum performance from SSD devices differ from those used on typical hard disk drives.
    Thank you for your reply. The Diskeeper PDF document referred to by Phone Man suggests that the sub-program of Diskeeper called Hyperfast does auto detect and consolidate defragmented free space as opposed to defragmented files.

    However, the thing I would really like to know is whether the benchmark results claimed by Diskeeper for Hyperfast have been validated by third party testing? And how big an issue is fragmented free space anyway? Diskeeper's results seeem to indicate it is significant. I've Googled it but can't seem to get any definitive answer.

    Have you used Raxco PerfectDisk first hand, and if yes, did it seem to make a noticeable difference?
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  8. #148


    Toronto, Canada. Born in the U.K.
    Posts : 691
    Win 10 Pro + Win 7 Ult SP1 (x64)


    I don't have an SSD to test it on unfortunately but I do use it. I'm usually a Diskeeper Pro fan but tried PD on my Vista OS and find it OK if not rather slow and often the UI seems to seize up. All things considered I prefer Diskeeper I think. Plus if and when I get an SSD I will obviously choose DK as it auto-selects the right method whereas PD you have to select it.

    DK isn't perfect either, mine insists I have Volume Shadow Copy (System Restore) turned on, on my external hard drive, which I do not. But other than that small quirk it performs faster than PD and with no UI issues.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  9. #149


    Australia
    Posts : 716
    Windows 7 Ult Reatil & Win 8 Pro OEM


    Quote Originally Posted by Ex_Brit View Post
    I don't have an SSD to test it on unfortunately but I do use it. I'm usually a Diskeeper Pro fan but tried PD on my Vista OS and find it OK if not rather slow and often the UI seems to seize up. All things considered I prefer Diskeeper I think. Plus if and when I get an SSD I will obviously choose DK as it auto-selects the right method whereas PD you have to select it.

    DK isn't perfect either, mine insists I have Volume Shadow Copy (System Restore) turned on, on my external hard drive, which I do not. But other than that small quirk it performs faster than PD and with no UI issues.
    Thank you for that very concise information.

    Now for the last question, which relates to my personal economic status, and is probably expecting far too much, but is there a freeware version of Diskeeper? lol!

    Also, I think your earlier comment is valid and that the correct terminology for SSDs should be something like optimizing or consolidating random free space, so as not to confuse with normal understanding of defrag.

    One of the things that always concerns me with third party software, and even Windows TRIM, which proactively delete corrupt or obsolete data is that they sometimes delete stuff that you don't want deleted, or they mistake as obsolete. More so 3rd party than Windows.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  10. #150


    Toronto, Canada. Born in the U.K.
    Posts : 691
    Win 10 Pro + Win 7 Ult SP1 (x64)


    Only a 30-day free trial. The built-in Defragger in Windows is actually a form of 'Diskeeper Lite' (very Lite!) for want of a better description. There are other free defraggers out there though and there is a Diskeeper Lite version for download: Download Diskeeper Lite free .
    Never tried it though so not too sure of its features.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

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