Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums


Will you upgrade? That is the question...

View Poll Results: Will you be upgrading to Windows 8?

Voters
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  • Yes

    72 46.45%
  • Maybe

    32 20.65%
  • No

    51 32.90%
  1. #111


    Posts : 454
    Windows 8.1 Pro with Media Center


    Quote Originally Posted by Mystere View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TerryE View Post
    - Gotta find the magic corners
    - It took me 2-3 weeks of casual use to figure out just how to shut down the computer and I'm an IT pro
    - I have yet to figure out how to simply logoff in lieu of shutting down
    - I like Aero and I don't want to give it up for the ugly Windows 8 "theme" they've chosen to give us
    Really? It took you 2-3 weeks to figure out where the power button was? Shut down your computer by pressing the physical power button on your computer, that's all it takes.
    It should be easy to find in the UI, don't you think? I don't even know if the power button does an orderly shutdown on any of my computers. The last time I checked it was a few years ago, and a momentary press did nothing, while a 4-second press did a hard restart. It would be fine with me if it still worked like that, because I never, ever use it to power down.

    Alternatively, ctrl-alt-del and click the button that looks like a power button in the lower right corner.
    Fundamental features should be easily discoverable. Expecting people to know Ctrl+Alt+Delete to use the latest version of Windows represents major fail.

    The long way is to go to the charms menu, settings, then click on the power button.
    Having used computers for so long, it would never occur to me that the "Power" button in a "Settings" menu controls the power as opposed to actual "settings" related to power. I wouldn't even look in "Settings" when searching for the power button. So many of these design choices are completely inexplicable.

    Log off instead of shutting down? Ctrl-alt-del, then Sign Out. How difficult is that? This is exactly the same as it worked in Windows 7 and XP before that.
    Oh, come on. That was one of the things the Start Menu was actually useful for. Most people don't use Ctrl+Alt+Delete.

    As for Aero, i'm sure the likes of WindowBlinds and what not will bring it back if you want it.
    I would never install software like that on any of my computers, as they are typically bad for stability and create issues in other software.

      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  2. #112


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    I sometimes wonder that some angst against Windows 8 from power/IT users comes from the shear frustration that simple things aren't simply where they USED to be and claim the UI isn't intuitive.

    It took me two, three days in the Developer Preview to realize that the power settings where in the Settings charm....now I felt stupid! I was logging off, sliding the lock screen, and shutting down. But afterwards, I learned that, moved forward. A new UI doesn't mean it's going to be simple at all. It takes learning and exploring with a good attitude.

    It's like how people used to say why they have to click on Start to shut down in Windows 95...
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  3. #113


    City of Burj Khalifah
    Posts : 273
    8 Release Preview, 7 Home Premium


    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    I was logging off, sliding the lock screen, and shutting down. But afterwards, I learned that, moved forward. A new UI doesn't mean it's going to be simple at all. It takes learning and exploring with a good attitude.
    Agree!!
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  4. #114


    I find it easy to click on the icons in the Metro screen, but I find the rest very confusing.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  5. #115


    USA
    Posts : 100
    Windows 7 Professional


    Quote Originally Posted by XFactor View Post
    I find it easy to click on the icons in the Metro screen, but I find the rest very confusing.
    It gets easier to navigate over time
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  6. #116


    Quote Originally Posted by poppa bear View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by 714 View Post
    Well, if you want it legally, then you'd have to buy it assembled, but if you don't mind breaking the EULA, you can install it with the retail disc. Never do it with a hacked version, ex. Snow Hazard. But I definitely perfer OS X over Windows. And, I can still run Windows easily, so OS X is big win win for me.
    That's very interesting. I presume the retail disc is an OEM one that comes with the assembled unit?

    I was friends with a PC techo a few years ago, and he only did Mac, and for businesses. Might try to catch up with him and see what he can offer. Thanks for the input '714'.
    My Macbook Pro didn't come with the disc. I bought it separately. (Came with Snow Leopard, upgraded to Lion) All discs are the same from what I understand though. Don't quote me though, haven't paid attention to Mac's since my Macbook was stolen.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  7. #117


    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    I sometimes wonder that some angst against Windows 8 from power/IT users comes from the shear frustration that simple things aren't simply where they USED to be and claim the UI isn't intuitive.
    Absolutely, without a doubt. Its a real pain where you work in an environment that uses XP, Vista, 7 and potentially 8 in the future trying to remember which system did which task and where. The same holds true for versions of office and things have moved around from 2007/2010. Plus, any documentation that you may have written and published has to then updated and rewritten for the new version.

    The overwhelming reason that IT pros are really down on Windows 8 is that it's hard for us to imagine any use of Metro in the business workplace that would make users more productive and efficient. Employees work at a desktop/laptop with a keyboard and a mouse, not on a tablet. And MS has made it in a way that you cannot disable or remote without 3rd party tools, so Metro just seems like a nuisance.

    It's not a compelling upgrade to me in any fashion, and it's certainly not something where i have found reasons to deploy it at work. Typical office workers don't want this much change to their environment. Going from XP, to Vista and then Vista to 7 was hard for many people. This seems much harder to me. I'd bet that you will see corporate desktops on Windows 8 about as likely as Windows ME. Companies will either be staying on XP, or staying on 7.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  8. #118


    Posts : 1,925
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by crawfish View Post
    It should be easy to find in the UI, don't you think? I don't even know if the power button does an orderly shutdown on any of my computers. The last time I checked it was a few years ago, and a momentary press did nothing, while a 4-second press did a hard restart. It would be fine with me if it still worked like that, because I never, ever use it to power down.
    Unless you've changed the behavior in the power settings, Windows has shut down the computer by pressing the power button momentarily since XP. This does, in fact work, and always has.. Back in the early XP days, there were some problems with some drivers, but that hasn't been a problem in over a decade.

    The reason for this is that Windows 8 is targeted at tablets and phones, and those are primarily shutdown via hardware buttons.

    Fundamental features should be easily discoverable. Expecting people to know Ctrl+Alt+Delete to use the latest version of Windows represents major fail.
    Ctrl-alt-del has been the single place to do all these things, including lock the screen, bring up task manager, etc... for a decade. If you don't know about it after 10+ years, i'd suggest you don't know much about Windows. Still, there are many ways to do the same thing in Windows, just because the way you always used has changed doesn't mean all the ways have changed.

    Having used computers for so long, it would never occur to me that the "Power" button in a "Settings" menu controls the power as opposed to actual "settings" related to power. I wouldn't even look in "Settings" when searching for the power button. So many of these design choices are completely inexplicable.
    This is by design. They don't want people accidentally fat fingering a shutdown when using tablets and phones. It's intentionally made more difficult through the UI so that accidental touches don't do destructive things.

    Oh, come on. That was one of the things the Start Menu was actually useful for. Most people don't use Ctrl+Alt+Delete.
    But that doesn't work in a touch environment.

    I would never install software like that on any of my computers, as they are typically bad for stability and create issues in other software.
    WindowBlinds uses the Theming API built into windows to change the themes. MS and Stardock worked together to build that API back in the XP days. WindowBlinds should be no less stable than MS's own built-in themes.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  9. #119


    Posts : 454
    Windows 8.1 Pro with Media Center


    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    I sometimes wonder that some angst against Windows 8 from power/IT users comes from the shear frustration that simple things aren't simply where they USED to be and claim the UI isn't intuitive.

    It took me two, three days in the Developer Preview to realize that the power settings where in the Settings charm....now I felt stupid! I was logging off, sliding the lock screen, and shutting down. But afterwards, I learned that, moved forward. A new UI doesn't mean it's going to be simple at all. It takes learning and exploring with a good attitude.
    People don't complain about these things because they approached them with a "bad attitude". They complain about them because these things are bad.

    It's like how people used to say why they have to click on Start to shut down in Windows 95...
    Not at all. To the extent anyone complained about that in a serious way, they were demonstrating a different type of ignorance concerning design. Others merely joked about the irony of it. The Start Button was the entry point to the entire computer, and it made perfect sense to put the power button in the Start Menu. It couldn't have been more easily discoverable or accessible without putting a huge power button in the middle of the desktop or on the taskbar (which of course would have been another type of fail). Now look at Windows 8. It buries the power button under a "Settings" button in a goofily-named "charms" thing that is accessed by a tiny hidden hotspot. To find it, you have to rely first on luck to discover the hotspot, and then you have to mindlessly enumerate all the "charms", because no one would expect to find a power button under a "Settings" label. Like I said, it's inexplicable. Sure, it can be learned, but why would anyone want to, and why would any company want to make them? (Rhetorical questions.) While a relatively minor thing, it does sort of represent many of the sorts of mistakes Microsoft made in Metro. FWIW, I didn't know where it was because I hadn't looked for it; I shut Windows 8 down by using the VMWare "suspend" command, which I found easily in VMWare Player's "Virtual Machine" menu. I expect a VM is as close to Windows 8 as I will ever get.
    Last edited by crawfish; 11 Jul 2012 at 11:35.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  10. #120


    Posts : 454
    Windows 8.1 Pro with Media Center


    Quote Originally Posted by Mystere View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by crawfish View Post
    It should be easy to find in the UI, don't you think? I don't even know if the power button does an orderly shutdown on any of my computers. The last time I checked it was a few years ago, and a momentary press did nothing, while a 4-second press did a hard restart. It would be fine with me if it still worked like that, because I never, ever use it to power down.
    Unless you've changed the behavior in the power settings, Windows has shut down the computer by pressing the power button momentarily since XP. This does, in fact work, and always has.. Back in the early XP days, there were some problems with some drivers, but that hasn't been a problem in over a decade.
    I'll take your word for it, though my recollection is correct, and it was certainly XP or later in which I observed what I wrote about. I still won't use the physical power button to power down the computer, and I wouldn't use it to power it up if I liked configuring the keyboard to start it up.

    The reason for this is that Windows 8 is targeted at tablets and phones, and those are primarily shutdown via hardware buttons.
    But this a forum where we talk about Windows 8 on the desktop. I'm not conceding anything to humor Microsoft's desperation at losing the mobile market.

    Fundamental features should be easily discoverable. Expecting people to know Ctrl+Alt+Delete to use the latest version of Windows represents major fail.
    Ctrl-alt-del has been the single place to do all these things, including lock the screen, bring up task manager, etc... for a decade. If you don't know about it after 10+ years, i'd suggest you don't know much about Windows. Still, there are many ways to do the same thing in Windows, just because the way you always used has changed doesn't mean all the ways have changed.
    Based on what I've observed, I think it a quite rare person who uses Ctrl+Alt+Delete on a regular basis in Windows. Discoverability remains a primary good design principle.

    This is by design. They don't want people accidentally fat fingering a shutdown when using tablets and phones. It's intentionally made more difficult through the UI so that accidental touches don't do destructive things.
    There's that foolish consistency again. That's why I nicknamed it Windows HE.

    Oh, come on. That was one of the things the Start Menu was actually useful for. Most people don't use Ctrl+Alt+Delete.
    But that doesn't work in a touch environment.
    This makes the third time you've invoked the touch rationale. It's not getting any more persuasive.

    I would never install software like that on any of my computers, as they are typically bad for stability and create issues in other software.
    WindowBlinds uses the Theming API built into windows to change the themes. MS and Stardock worked together to build that API back in the XP days. WindowBlinds should be no less stable than MS's own built-in themes.
    That's always the promise, but what you end up with are the other company's bugs on top of Microsoft's bugs, and that's something I like to avoid, especially when it comes to software that can potentially affect every other piece of software I use, software that isn't tested with WindowBlinds, whose developers care only about how their software works in plain old Windows. You couldn't pay me to use something like WindowBlinds.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

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