Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums


Microsoft is taking us for fools.

  1. #1


    New Zealand
    Posts : 91
    Microsoft Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit SP1

    Microsoft is taking us for fools.


    I have been thinking about the news of the last few days, particularly about the new surface tablets and have come to a realization that Microsoft has been taking us all for fools.

    Why put Metro on to a desktop operating system. Not because it is modern and any sort of improvement over what we have been using. Certainly not because it is easier or more logical to use.

    And why remove the Start Button. All that has done is annoy a lot of people who like it, and use it all the time.

    I have come to the conclusion it can only be about the apps. Microsoft is desperate to compete with Apple in the mobile and tablet arena. To do that they need quality apps in their app store.

    To get developers interested in creating apps they need to have people using Metro. Microsoft has done that by adding it to Windows.

    That in its self would be fine, but I am sure that Microsoft realizes that if it was only an option, most people would get sick of it in a day or two and disable it.


    So instead you are forced to boot into it and cannot disable it. They have removed the Start Button and you are forced to use Metro regularly.

    With the number of new computers sold pre-installed with Windows 8 there will soon be millions of users. Some of them will even end up buying apps.


    I think I will stick to Seven. I will consider upgrading to 8 once Microsoft tells me how much they will pay me to do so.

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  2. #2


    Posts : 239
    Win7 & 8 64bit / Linux Mint 14


    Quote Originally Posted by McRuff View Post

    I have come to the conclusion it can only be about the apps. Microsoft is desperate to compete with Apple in the mobile and tablet arena. To do that they need quality apps in their app store.

    I think I will stick to Seven. I will consider upgrading to 8 once Microsoft tells me how much they will pay me to do so.
    It's always been about paid for apps and monthly subscription cloud computing. That's where MS see their future profit coming from. I have no interest in downloading apps and for cloud computing you need a 100% reliable connection all of the time wherever you are (99% is not good enough) plus total trust in whoever is looking after your information.

    So as I don't fall into the first category (apps) and most certainly not the second (cloud) then I'll be staying with Win7 which will be supported for several years. Who knows, maybe MS will allow us the classic UI with Win9 or Linux will be a practical alternative although promises, promises and more promises spring to mind. If only Adobe would port stuff to Linux then I would seriously look at it. And nope, I'm not a candidate for the overpriced and over-hyped fruit company's products.

    The bottom line is that no one is forcing anyone to use Win8 whilst Win7 is doing a perfectly good job. Once the OEM's start bundling Win8 with their desktops/laptops then no doubt I'll be getting a few phone calls to 'upgrade' them to Win7.
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  3. #3


    Things may change with the final release.
    Bu I think you are being a little overboard.
    You are not forced to use Metro. I see it as a graphical representation of the old start menu, and am using it as such. I am not very excited about it as it is no my "style" I have removed most of the clutter and only left my regularly used programs sitting there.
    But it is not a problem to install a third party start menu - there are several available. The result would then be: one click to the desktop - on click to the start menu and then click the programs, or wherever you are heading. It is only the single click to the desktop which is in the way. However, once you have use a program (word or whatever) and exit, you are returned to the more conventional desktop for the remainder of you user time.
    But, if like me, you persist on trying to use Metro, it is only one click on an icon and you are into the chosen program!
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  4. #4


    Hafnarfjörður IS
    Posts : 4,376
    Linux Centos 7, W8.1, W7, W2K3 Server W10


    Hi there
    If an alternative OS would run all these applications then as they say in the good 'ol US of A' 'Im out'a here!!.

    1) Complete MS office EXACTLY -- not 99% as good as --must run 100% and that includes VISIO and PROJECT in the office suite as well and MS outlook.

    2) Visual Studio -- nothing else even comes close for this sort of stuff.

    3) Adobe Photoshop -- again nothing else comes anywhere near for what I need it for even though The Gimp would do in extreme cases.

    4) A SAP GUI to connect with a load of SAP systems -- less important now as I can often go through a portal and connect via any browser that accepts long URL strings.

    5) decent VPN software to connect with business clients when required -- there are linux one's around but unless I'm using Windows I often seem to have connectivity problems.

    I can run multi-media, or pretty well anything else I need on any sort of Linux but the apps I've given above are my 100% MUST have ones.

    I'm not a gamer so those issues don't bother me in the slightest.

    If I don't like the way W8 is panning out then I'll Virtualize a W7 system and run my apps from there -- and by using a tiny Linux kernel I'll probably not lose too much overhead of running W7 as a VM.

    I did look at the w2008 server but no sound support . What I DID discover though was that W2003 Server CAN support up to 12 GB RAM (version R2) even though it's a 32 bit OS -- and you CAN run a 64 bit GUEST as a VM even if your Host is 32 bit so I could run W7 x-64 VM under W2003 server --seems a bit of an extreme way to do it on a laptop --but 8 GB RAM and I5 so decent laptop.

    Might be worth an experiment -- weather horrible today so I might have a play.

    Think the Linux idea though will be the winner -- I've often run Windows guests on a Linux host and HERE I CAN CUSTOMIZE THE GUI to my hearts content.

    Seems a bit of a case "Back to the future" though.

    I do think Ms has either gone totally Bonkers or Schizophrenic here -- let us choose -- Touch or Classic desktop. seems obvious to me. Not all computers are overgrown Mobile phones.

    Also "Paid apps" rather like online advertising doesn't actually bring in anything like the anticipated revenue --especially if you start having to spend billions on QC to ensure apps are compliant with Ms standards etc..

    On the Google play store I've never ever bought a paid for app (except one -- Winamp pro since it was the only decent music app I could find that would allow you to select music by FOLDERS as well as all the other usual stuff-- I find this useful as I can't be bothered tagging zillions of stuff and sorting into albums etc etc --and it plays FLAC too).

    I've downloaded a few free apps that are actually in most cases better than some of the "paid stuff" and a lot more useful - such as if I'm in London --nearest Bus stop -- real time bus info etc etc.

    I can't see an Ms "app store" buying anything for ms apart from mega loads of "the brown stinky stuff".

    Cheers
    jimbo
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  5. #5


    Posts : 239
    Win7 & 8 64bit / Linux Mint 14


    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo45 View Post
    Hi there
    If an alternative OS would run all these applications then as they say in the good 'ol US of A' 'Im out'a here!!.
    And there is the problem Jimbo. Keep on reading about the latest and greatest Ubuntu, Mint, Zorin, etc, etc and if all I wanted was to browse the internet or send a few e-mails then that would be fine. Wine only runs Photoshop up to a certain release (think it's CS4) and InDesign is a no no. So unless you've got time on your hands or are a whizz kid at getting these programs to run then it's a no go in my case.

    I don't though see what the problem is with Win8 if you've already got a Win7 rig which is running just fine. Sure it may have been nice to have a new op system to have a play around with but Win8 as it stands is not for me. The speed improvements that Win8 brought to the table I didn't experience although no doubt that may be down to individual desktops/laptops.
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  6. #6


    Hafnarfjörður IS
    Posts : 4,376
    Linux Centos 7, W8.1, W7, W2K3 Server W10


    Hi there
    W7 isn't going away for years yet
    I expect even XP will still be running in 2020 or longer -- sometimes the hardware you need won't run on anything newer and particularly laboratory or industrial stuff it's HIDEOUSLY expensive to upgrade the new gear so these will just sit fine on VM's and security implications aren't a bother at all -- you can ignore the marketing or I.T guys saying --Security support for XP is ending soon so you MUST upgrade" -- what does it matter in the case of say a dedicated computer running a sophisticated machine tool -- these machines are rarely if ever connected to a network anyway.

    I was hoping however that there would be something in W8 for traditional desktop users and its performance is definitely snappy.

    I still haven't given up yet on Ms coming to its senses.

    My worry isn't the fact that you need an extra click to get to trhe desktiop -- and with a decent 3rd party app I've actually got the start orb and classic menu back too -- but Ms is likely or seems likely to want to remove the traditional desktop completely -- and then we're hosed up big time.

    We need an intent from Ms if they want the uptake of W8 to be successful. We know most businesses won't touch it with a bargepole --they've only just started doing a W7 upgrade and the cost of a second one so close --forget it -- and of course user confusion too.

    If Ms can keep the desktop for the forseeable future -- OK -- if it's all Metro NOK --No way Jose.

    Cheers
    jimbo
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  7. #7


    Posts : 239
    Win7 & 8 64bit / Linux Mint 14


    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo45 View Post
    Hi there

    I still haven't given up yet on Ms coming to its senses.
    Don't bank on that one. As far as I'm concerned MS is living in a bubble over this. They've seen how Apple can drive the market and earn big bucks from it's sheep like following herd but what they (MS) fail to realise is that Apple is a fashion accessory in many cases. Look at the queues that form outside their shops when Apple decide to release anything new. It's a must have item.

    Fashions come and go and one day folks will stop paying premium $$'s simply to be seen with the latest bit of kit. All empires fail (eventually).
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  8. #8


    Posts : 5,360
    7/8/ubuntu/Linux Deepin


    That is what I have been saying for a long time.

    It is dangerous.

    If people think they are being treated like fools - they will turn on you.
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  9. #9


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    apple's app store doesn't even contribute a lot to their profits, it's just a source for them and will be a source for Microsoft. It's not a huge profit margin for them, but will be for developers.

    And if most people, you're saying the casual user, I doubt they will disable metro. It's a new interface that cause intrigue for users and definitely the younger crowd.

    Keep in mind that the Start Screen is the new start menu but more useable and more visual. So what if it's full screen?

    As for buying apps, I think that's what you do when you buy Office software or Adobe software or anti-virus software. It's an app, and you pay a lot for them. Apps in the Windows Store will probably range on the lower end of cost and thus, more people would buy it. I don't get the argument that it's about buying apps, people have been buying apps since the first piece of commercial software.

    Also, using the Start Screen on a desktop DOES work, you don't use it like you did in Windows 7, that's the main point. Besides, there's an overarching theme that Windows is part of. There's the Xbox and Windows Phone that will work hand in hand with Windows. 8 is geared more towards the consumer crowd that has an Xbox, and has a better incentive on upgrading to a Windows Phone 8 to complete the Microsoft Trifecta.
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  10. #10


    Posts : 239
    Win7 & 8 64bit / Linux Mint 14


    '....In terms of numbers, Apple’s App Store has earned about $4.9 billion in gross revenue for paid apps, while the Android Marketplace is estimated to have earned just $330 million in that market....'
    Source - Apple Getting Best Of The Android Vs. iPhone Economics - Forbes
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