Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums


Put the $%*!# Start menu back - former director of Mac Platform Market

  1. #11


    Thank you, Bill. All I'm saying is that people should take more time to learn a product. I've been using 8 RP for about 10 days and I'm getting around in it pretty well. I didn't use the other previews. Dove right into RP. I rate myself about a 5 in 10 scale of PC savvy. I'm thinking if I can learn this anyone can, although I'm not in IT nor have to sit at it all day. I use it for my building business records, estimating, email, etc. I'll let the Pros decide the final say on 8.

    Just for the record, I must make a correction on the search while in Metro start page as I stated in an earlier post above. When one is on that page and starts typing, the search pops up at the right. As one types, option places start to appear. I stated one can find "app, doc, pic, folder, or whatever you want to use". The folder search is not entirely true. It will find some folders, but not all. For example, if I type pictures, the pictures app appears to the left and other folders, files, and settings appear below the search box. If I type C:/ then "No apps match your search" appears on the left but permissible-to-view folders show up below the search box. If I arrow down to any one of those folders and press enter, the folder appears in Windows Explorer in the desktop.

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  2. #12


    Posts : 5,360
    7/8/ubuntu/Linux Deepin


    There have been lots of observations by users about the UI changes, how it is optimized for tablets, it is far from from ideal for their existing users, it is awkward, annoying, and so on.

    Those things are true.

    If that was all, many would overlook the UI annoyances as an inevitable part of a first attempt.


    However, it goes deeper than that.

    What many find utterly repugnant is the attempt to force users to the MS clouds.

    The removal of the start menu is an example of that. Users are thrust to the start screen with it's aggressive marketing of MS online services. That is why they took it out - not because it is in any way a good thing for users.

    There has been a pattern of this kind of behaviour .

    I don't know what is driving MS to behave like this, but to many it smacks of arrogance, and/or treating customers like idiots.

    It might just be blind panic as Mike suggests - I don't know.

    I do know it is an appalling mistake.
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  3. #13


    Posts : 5,360
    7/8/ubuntu/Linux Deepin


    To pretend everything is rosy would be to condone this kind of behaviour.

    It would send a message , not to just to MS , but to all large corporations that they can push people around.

    I cannot knowingly do that.

    It may surprise some who have only seen me on this forum to find I have been a big MS supporter.

    I do not want them to fail.

    The consequences of their actions are widespread - people's jobs around the world depend on them.

    They must rethink what they are doing.

    It may be too late for this o/s.

    I have no doubt they can produce something excellent - looks like it will have to be next time.

    It is dangerous.

    If they don't get it right next time - then they will be in all kinds of trouble.

    It is possible they may not wait 3yrs for the next one - depending how badly win8 limps along.
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  4. #14


    Posts : 224
    .


    Quote Originally Posted by HippsieGypsie View Post
    Thank you, Bill. All I'm saying is that people should take more time to learn a product. I've been using 8 RP for about 10 days and I'm getting around in it pretty well. I didn't use the other previews. Dove right into RP. I rate myself about a 5 in 10 scale of PC savvy. I'm thinking if I can learn this anyone can, although I'm not in IT nor have to sit at it all day. I use it for my building business records, estimating, email, etc. I'll let the Pros decide the final say on 8.

    Just for the record, I must make a correction on the search while in Metro start page as I stated in an earlier post above. When one is on that page and starts typing, the search pops up at the right. As one types, option places start to appear. I stated one can find "app, doc, pic, folder, or whatever you want to use". The folder search is not entirely true. It will find some folders, but not all. For example, if I type pictures, the pictures app appears to the left and other folders, files, and settings appear below the search box. If I type C:/ then "No apps match your search" appears on the left but permissible-to-view folders show up below the search box. If I arrow down to any one of those folders and press enter, the folder appears in Windows Explorer in the desktop.
    your making the same mistake microsoft is, your assuming people want change your assuming people have the time to relearn something that should be familiar to them already, do you think a company has the time to lose 10-20 days of work time just so their staff can work out how to use the o/s? don't think so somehow...

    people working from home? nope they can't afford to waste days learning an o/s

    gamers? sure they probably can..providing they don't use their pc's for work.

    so i find it pointlessly easy to use the os, i have spare time to do that and i get paid to do it as well, but thats me, and doesn't account for everyone out there that relies on familiar upgrades so they can minimise down time in the work place to keep productivity high.
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  5. #15


    Posts : 228
    Black Label 7x64


    Quote Originally Posted by HippsieGypsie View Post
    All I'm saying is that people should take more time to learn a product.
    I did learn it. That's the whole point - knowing exactly what Metro is and does, I've discovered it doesn't work for me. Why is this so hard to understand?
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  6. #16


    I hear you two. Somehow I knew that some Pros would help me to evaluate the product. I appreciate that.

    Like I stated, I'm a moderate user. I don't sit at it all day, although I use a PC mostly for a building business and social communication.

    SWI2 - The Cloud is a marvelous tool, is it not? I'm just getting into that myself via SkyDrive. We can access our files anywhere in the world with any device and possibly even if we're on the space station. Is that not what M$ is trying to accomplish? Correct me if I'm wrong, and I'm just getting into it, but can we configure 8 to access other cloud services? Is M$ really forcing us to use theirs? They don't have a monopoly on the cloud, do they? For example, I have 2 Live email accounts, one for personal and one for business. I configured another Gmail account which I use for general purposes. The email app tile, which is turned on live, is already communicating with me that I have mail. It scrolls through the new emails in all three accounts. I mean how communicable and productive is that? Then I have the choice of reading them or not. In my 7 OS I had to configure Live mail to open and sign me in on boot. It took quite long. 8 boots up in 2-1/2 diving busy donuts thus far. way faster! I also have the email app tile as #1 in Metro start, which was default on setup. I simply push enter and it opens. How convenient is that?! Or I can arrow key to any app tile, push enter, and it opens. Desktop is my #2. I'm loving the Metro live tiles. To me, Metro is a start UI that replaces the start menu. It does really help me to be more organized and productive just as they advertise it to be.

    Gazz9496 - I hear you on production. You probably know about it more than I ever will. I don't own a company with lets say...1,000 employees as an example. But if I did and had the capital to do so, I would take 1,000 non-touch monitors and 1,000 mice and sell them, donate them to charity & write it off, or throw them in the trash, because to me their non-productive. Then I would buy 1,000 touch monitors and forget the mice to use touch monitors. Then as the #1 Metro tile on all my employees' Metro start page I would have it linked to a doc file with all the shortcut keys listed in it. Then tell them to open it and learn it. I don't think it would take but a few days. If they're too stupid to learn them, then I would fire them to replace them with someone who can. The next tile would be the Help. It opens to basically what's new in 8. Just as it did in all previous OSs. I would instruct them to learn it, including the touch screen. If they're too stupid to learn it, then I would fire them to replace them with someone who can. I would do this to any tradesman I hire that's too stupid to learn, for we are all learning something new every day. If I don't keep up with new building products, tools, building methods, and management, I am doomed!

    Overall, M$ is just trying to link us all with various devices to a lot of data of our choosing. This has inspired me to configure my VZ Droid2 to a cloud, whether it be M$, Google, or anyone else. But rest assured, I will change.
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  7. #17


    Posts : 5,360
    7/8/ubuntu/Linux Deepin


    I am glad you like it.
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  8. #18


    Posts : 299
    win 7 home premium 64 bit


    Quote Originally Posted by SIW2 View Post
    There have been lots of observations by users about the UI changes, how it is optimized for tablets, it is far from from ideal for their existing users, it is awkward, annoying, and so on.

    Those things are true.

    If that was all, many would overlook the UI annoyances as an inevitable part of a first attempt.


    However, it goes deeper than that.

    What many find utterly repugnant is the attempt to force users to the MS clouds.

    The removal of the start menu is an example of that. Users are thrust to the start screen with it's aggressive marketing of MS online services. That is why they took it out - not because it is in any way a good thing for users.

    There has been a pattern of this kind of behaviour .

    (Not just with M$ but with many different large corporations in various consumer related businesses!)


    I don't know what is driving MS to behave like this, but to many it smacks of arrogance, and/or treating customers like idiots.

    It might just be blind panic as Mike suggests - I don't know.

    I do know it is an appalling mistake.
    I too have noticed this corporate arrogance towards the consumer, in many different businesses....I'd say within the past decade or so. A question is who or whom is fostering this attitude and what exactly are the motives, just more profit..or something more insidious? Paranoia, perhaps, but I think there is more to this aspect of things.

    Regarding "The Cloud" while it may be beneficial the fact is it takes ALL the control of the independent users PC based data and puts it ALL into the hands of others, can we really put that much trust in total strangers today....NO WAY. NOT FOR A MINUTE!
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  9. #19


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by SIW2 View Post
    There have been lots of observations by users about the UI changes, how it is optimized for tablets, it is far from from ideal for their existing users, it is awkward, annoying, and so on.

    Those things are true.

    If that was all, many would overlook the UI annoyances as an inevitable part of a first attempt.


    However, it goes deeper than that.

    What many find utterly repugnant is the attempt to force users to the MS clouds.

    The removal of the start menu is an example of that. Users are thrust to the start screen with it's aggressive marketing of MS online services. That is why they took it out - not because it is in any way a good thing for users.

    There has been a pattern of this kind of behaviour .

    I don't know what is driving MS to behave like this, but to many it smacks of arrogance, and/or treating customers like idiots.

    It might just be blind panic as Mike suggests - I don't know.

    I do know it is an appalling mistake.
    Microsoft has ALWAYS been marketing their services: Windows Live. I guess it took a new OS to realize that...
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  10. #20


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by legacy7955 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SIW2 View Post
    There have been lots of observations by users about the UI changes, how it is optimized for tablets, it is far from from ideal for their existing users, it is awkward, annoying, and so on.

    Those things are true.

    If that was all, many would overlook the UI annoyances as an inevitable part of a first attempt.


    However, it goes deeper than that.

    What many find utterly repugnant is the attempt to force users to the MS clouds.

    The removal of the start menu is an example of that. Users are thrust to the start screen with it's aggressive marketing of MS online services. That is why they took it out - not because it is in any way a good thing for users.

    There has been a pattern of this kind of behaviour .

    (Not just with M$ but with many different large corporations in various consumer related businesses!)


    I don't know what is driving MS to behave like this, but to many it smacks of arrogance, and/or treating customers like idiots.

    It might just be blind panic as Mike suggests - I don't know.

    I do know it is an appalling mistake.
    I too have noticed this corporate arrogance towards the consumer, in many different businesses....I'd say within the past decade or so. A question is who or whom is fostering this attitude and what exactly are the motives, just more profit..or something more insidious? Paranoia, perhaps, but I think there is more to this aspect of things.

    Regarding "The Cloud" while it may be beneficial the fact is it takes ALL the control of the independent users PC based data and puts it ALL into the hands of others, can we really put that much trust in total strangers today....NO WAY. NOT FOR A MINUTE!
    Let me guess, you still use the post office to send letters around to communicate with others? Or do you just simply tell them in person what you want to tell them?
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

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Put the $%*!# Start menu back - former director of Mac Platform Market
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