Time for a change

constantG

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Been using Win8 RP for about a week now and have decided to air my views. I have to say that I'm rather impressed but (and there's always a but with MS products) there are a few problems that after the amount of time/effort/money spent should really have been eradicated. These are:

1. Clock - why is the only clock available on the Desktop. Wouldn't it be neater to have a clock on full screen apps.
2. Users - this has been a problem for all versions of windows including 8. Why do MS insist that your first user be an
Administrator. This makes the PC infinitely more insecure as changes to the registry or system files are just a click away.
3. Customisation of the Start Menu - wtf

There are other things but most of them are just about getting used to the new interface but, my young children have used it infrequently over the week and have become almost at one with it already.

CW
 

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1) It's not. For instance, if you bring up the charms bar, there's a clock. This works, even in full screen apps. There are lots of other places as well.

2) If the first user were not an administrator, nobody could be an administrator. That just seems silly. How would you create an administrator if there were not administrative accounts?

3) I don't understand this question. What kind of customization are you talking about? What is so WTF about it?
 

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They seem to have decided that no one wants the clock in their face. Windows key + c will show it for you.
Even a user can access the registry, and it is not beyond even a low quality hacker to be able to interfere with the system files/folders, even through a user.. But a password, whilst it can be hacked, helps a little.
 

My Computer

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    Windows 8.1
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    Use several different computers during a day, so specs are irrelevant.
Not only that, but for #2, there's UAC - even an administrator has to provide his or her permission for system-level tasks to be executed at high priority. The first user being an administrator is actually "best practice" - the inbox "Administrator" account should be disabled, and another account with administrative privileges should be created and used for just that purpose. Additional accounts should then be created, as regular users, for day to day work. I'd agree Microsoft could do that as part of the OOBE, but that's another discussion entirely.
 

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The main reason why the first account is an administrator account falls along UAC and Family Security features of 8. Normally, when you add a user account, yours should be an admin since you're the one controlling it. But I think generally, you're the main admin in 7, other than the built in admin account. When you add a said user account, like for your kids, Windows asks you if this is a child's account from where you can actually monitor and limit your child's PC usage. I think, not sure, you might need a Microsoft account for that. I maybe wrong though.
 

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But for the Start Screen customization, I feel it's limited. In the Consumer Preview, there was a utility that let you change EVERYTHING about the Start Screen. I had a black background and cool blue tiles....

Right now, it's limited, but I'm looking out for an updated utility that does that in the Release Preview. My bet is that by the final RTM release, the Start Screen will be able to be customized like that.

But in the mean time, you can pin the crap out of the Start Screen! I have my libraries pinned, some Desktop apps, and some games pinned and they're in label groups too.
 

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    Windows 8.1 Pro
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    AMD FX 8320
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    Memory
    16 gig DDR3
    Graphics Card(s)
    ASUS R9 270
    Screen Resolution
    1440x900
    Hard Drives
    1 TB Seagate Barracuda (starting to hate Seagate)
    x2 3 TB Toshibas
    Windows 8.1 is installed on a SanDisk Ultra Plus 256 GB
    PSU
    OCZ 500 watt
    Case
    A current work in progres as I'll be building the physical case myself. It shall be fantastic.
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    Arctic Cooler with 3 heatpipes
    Keyboard
    Logitech K750 wireless solar powered keyboard
    Mouse
    Microsoft Touch Mouse
    Browser
    Internet Explorer 11
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender, but I might go back on KIS 2014
Right ok the clock is there but I like the clock to be visible at all times but maybe that is just me.

As for #2 Windows always makes an Administrator account (called administrator) on first installation, but then hides this account from view. So why make the next account (i.e. the first user account that is visible) administrator as well. This makes no sense. The reason why I think that all accounts, other than the initial Administrator account should be limited is that most people do not fully understand what accounts are and give no thought to security at all. These people need to be protected from themselves as they will probably set up only one account which the whole family uses; and that means that the whole family can install programs, mess with system files without even providing a password to do so.
I for one do not want my daughter who is 8 downloading from a link in her favourite kids gaming site and being able to install it.
This idea does not matter to me because I set things up correctly but for your average computer user it gives them at least a first line of defence, even if they don't know or understand it.
 

My Computer

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  • OS
    windows 8
    System Manufacturer/Model
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    CPU
    Intel i3 2320
    Motherboard
    ASUS P8Z68-V LX
    Memory
    8GB CRUCIAL BALLISTIX
    Graphics Card(s)
    ASUS ATI RADEON HD 6770

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    ASUS
    CPU
    AMD FX 8320
    Motherboard
    Crosshair V Formula-Z
    Memory
    16 gig DDR3
    Graphics Card(s)
    ASUS R9 270
    Screen Resolution
    1440x900
    Hard Drives
    1 TB Seagate Barracuda (starting to hate Seagate)
    x2 3 TB Toshibas
    Windows 8.1 is installed on a SanDisk Ultra Plus 256 GB
    PSU
    OCZ 500 watt
    Case
    A current work in progres as I'll be building the physical case myself. It shall be fantastic.
    Cooling
    Arctic Cooler with 3 heatpipes
    Keyboard
    Logitech K750 wireless solar powered keyboard
    Mouse
    Microsoft Touch Mouse
    Browser
    Internet Explorer 11
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender, but I might go back on KIS 2014
1) It's not. For instance, if you bring up the charms bar, there's a clock. This works, even in full screen apps. There are lots of other places as well.

2) If the first user were not an administrator, nobody could be an administrator. That just seems silly. How would you create an administrator if there were not administrative accounts?

3) I don't understand this question. What kind of customization are you talking about? What is so WTF about it?


Hi there
with Linux you actually have to logon as ROOT or use SUDO with a root password to get admin account.

IMO Windows should have the same facility -- you logon as a "bog standard" user and then use something equiv to sudo to get super user rights.

shouldn't be impossible to implement in windows.

Cheers
jimbo
 

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    Intel Core i7 4790K @ 4.5GHz
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    32GB DDR3
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    4x WD RE 2TB (RAIDZ)
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    Corsair AX760i
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    Fractal Design Define R4
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    Noctua NH-D15
with Linux you actually have to logon as ROOT or use SUDO with a root password to get admin account.

Depends on the version of Linux. Ubuntu/Kubuntu/etc.. do not do this. They work exactly like Windows Vista/7/8 work in this regard.

Other versions you're right, but most newer versions these days use a setup similar to Windows and MacOS.
 

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    nVidia GTX 650
    Sound Card
    Onboard Audio
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Auria 27" IPS + 2x Samsung 23"
    Screen Resolution
    2560x1440 + 2x 2048x1152
    Hard Drives
    Corsair m4 256GB, 2 WD 2TB drives
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    Antec SOLO II
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    Microsoft Natural Ergonomic Keyboard 4000
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    Logitech MX
Organizing the tiles on the Metro screen can be a royal pain. The auto shuffle is frustrating and always having to use 2 vertical columns is a pain. It's 2 4 6 or 8 columns of tiles. Not being able to easily rename tiles is kind of lame too.
 

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I am sure there is a more technical way, but I renamed all my long named metro Icons. I installed Classic shell, and renamed them there - very easy to do - they were automatically renamed in metro.
 

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I just went to the folders the actual shortcuts are in and renamed them there. After a little delay they change on the Metro Start screen to match.
 

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    NVIDIA Geforce GT640 2 Gig DDR3 PCIe
    Sound Card
    VIA VT1708s High Definition Audio 8-channel Onboard
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    22" LG E2242 1080p and 2 19" I-INC AG191D
    Screen Resolution
    1280x1024 - 1920x1080 - 1280x1024
    Hard Drives
    Crucial MX100 256 GB SSD and 500 GB WD Blue SATA
    PSU
    Thermaltake TR 620
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    Cooling
    Stock heatsink fan
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    Logitech Wireless K350 Wave
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    Logitech M570 Trackball and T650 TouchPad
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    80 Mbps Down 30 Mbps Up
    Browser
    Internet Explorer 11
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender
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    HP DVD1040e Lightscribe - External USB2
Yes. That was another way. I found a little confliction there, between the two start menu folders. I Had to use both to change to rename some of the items. Nevertheless, I didn't see it as a mind shattering problem - pretty much the same way as you would rename in Windows 7/XP
 

My Computer

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  • OS
    Windows 8.1
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    Other Info
    Use several different computers during a day, so specs are irrelevant.
Yes, but in this day and age, when Microsoft has been doing this for so long, it should be a lot easier. Right click the tile, select rename....or something similar.
 

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    ASUS M4N68T-M V2 µATX Motherboard
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    NVIDIA Geforce GT640 2 Gig DDR3 PCIe
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    VIA VT1708s High Definition Audio 8-channel Onboard
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    22" LG E2242 1080p and 2 19" I-INC AG191D
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    1280x1024 - 1920x1080 - 1280x1024
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    Crucial MX100 256 GB SSD and 500 GB WD Blue SATA
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    Thermaltake TR 620
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    Stock heatsink fan
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    Logitech Wireless K350 Wave
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    Logitech M570 Trackball and T650 TouchPad
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    HP DVD1040e Lightscribe - External USB2
That's basically what UAC allows (amongst other things), although having a *second* admin account (in the event you cannot log onto one of the two accounts) is "best practice" for that reason.

I'm afraid to say this cluberti, but if you are logged in with an adminstrators account, UAC pops up but does not need the user to input an administrators password; this basically renders the UAC useless. If you have a limited/standard account (which ALL users should have) it does ask for the admin password, which you and only you (or perhaps other trustworthy adults in your household) should have access to.
That is the way that UAC should be used, however MS insist that the first USER has administrative rights, even though there is an inbuilt Administrator account created when Windows is installed. << crazy!!

The Linux way is exactly as Jimbo45 states and is ultimately more secure from first install.
 

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  • OS
    windows 8
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    ASUS
    CPU
    Intel i3 2320
    Motherboard
    ASUS P8Z68-V LX
    Memory
    8GB CRUCIAL BALLISTIX
    Graphics Card(s)
    ASUS ATI RADEON HD 6770
It's not all that crazy, it's an interim step to getting 600 million windows users used to the actual concept of user security without completely throwing it in their face all at once. It is /more/ secure than the first user account of any windows pre vista and is at least as secure as typing a password in for external attacks, though yes, less secure if you leave your workstation unlocked and some yahoo comes by to make trouble for you physically on your machine.

Once people get used to the UAC and finally understand it's importance AND once program writers also understand that the user should not be running as admin to use their program, we can finally move all normal user accounts to non admin status completely.

HOWEVER, there will then of course STILL be a "very first" user that will be the true admin that will have to be set up, then you need to set up your normal user account because there has to be SOME sort of admin account on install. (As linux does) That being part of the "too dificult to throw at new windows users all at once" issue for Vista/7 (and 8 now I guess)
 

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Setup a standard user account and try using it for a while. Then see how long it takes before you wish you had stayed with the default admin account.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 10 Education 64 Bit
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Asus
    CPU
    AMD Phenom II X4 980 Black Edition Deneb 3.7GHz
    Motherboard
    ASUS M4N68T-M V2 µATX Motherboard
    Memory
    8GB 4GBx2 Kingston PC10600 DDR3 1333 Memory
    Graphics Card(s)
    NVIDIA Geforce GT640 2 Gig DDR3 PCIe
    Sound Card
    VIA VT1708s High Definition Audio 8-channel Onboard
    Monitor(s) Displays
    22" LG E2242 1080p and 2 19" I-INC AG191D
    Screen Resolution
    1280x1024 - 1920x1080 - 1280x1024
    Hard Drives
    Crucial MX100 256 GB SSD and 500 GB WD Blue SATA
    PSU
    Thermaltake TR 620
    Case
    Power Up Black ATX Mid-Tower Case
    Cooling
    Stock heatsink fan
    Keyboard
    Logitech Wireless K350 Wave
    Mouse
    Logitech M570 Trackball and T650 TouchPad
    Internet Speed
    80 Mbps Down 30 Mbps Up
    Browser
    Internet Explorer 11
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender
    Other Info
    HP DVD1040e Lightscribe - External USB2
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