Win 8 UAC Relies On an Expired Certificate for Assurance!?

RxDdude

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Why does Windows 8 User Access Control (UAC) provide an invalid security certificate to verify OS changes? Why has Microsoft® refused to update this certificate and give it valid dates? This undercuts Microsoft®'s software assurance scheme. Nowhere in the Security Certificate article in Windows® Help did I find any recommendation to trust a certificate past its "Vaid to" date.

My PC with Windows® 8 OS was bought from a local Staples office supply store off-the-shelf in factory-sealed carton on November 21, 2013. The PC was un-boxed by this end-user; Windows® 8 was activated online with Microsoft®; and the product was registered online with the OEM, h-p, on Nov. 22, 2013. After activation, all patches and other software pushed by Windows® Update were installed in November and December 2013.

Microsoft® Windows® UAC always required the end-user as administrator to accept responsibility for approving the installing of any patch or update or other change to the system software. In January, 2014, and ever since then, it was noticed that UAC provided a Security Certificate for assurance of the software quality, but the Certificate was no longer within its valid dates. The certificate provided in UAC specified that it was Valid from: 4/12/2012, and Valid to: 7/9/2013. The system was sold as new on November 21, 2013, more than four months after the validity expired, for this Certificate issued to Microsoft® Windows® by the Microsoft® Windows Production PCA 2011.

. Although some others of Windows'® Security Certificates were updated for some other changes made from time to time, this cert. was never updated. This expired cert. continues to be in use by Windows® 8 and UAC to this day, with the same dates, the same cert. that expired years ago!

Windows® Help on-line, when searched for information on security certificates, gave little specific description. The write-up did not advise relying upon certificates outside their valid dates, and it seemed to be tending toward distrust of certificates with expired validity dates. Thus, there is no assurance that all of the software items that Windows® Update has installed, have been entirely free of malware.

(Windows Update itself seems defective in the past six months, as it repeatedly calls for downloading patches with KB numbers that were already installed, some of them even last Fall, and that are already shown as Installed in the Installed Updates list window. Perhaps this trouble resulted from a software change that was certified by the same cert.; the invalid, expired certificate. Perhaps Windows Update itself was altered and is now recommending replacing a specific security patch with a piece of new software that will remove some of the protection measures or create a specific "backdoor" for the FBI, NSA, ChiComms, or other malefactors. With the software security assurance basing itself on a presumably ineffective, outdated certificate, any such scheme seems to be possible.)
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8 (x64)
    Computer type
    Laptop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    H-P Pavilion g7-2270US
    CPU
    Core(TM) i3-5110M, 2.4 GHz
    Motherboard
    OEM --
    Memory
    6 GB DDR3 1333 MHz
    Graphics Card(s)
    Intel® 256 MB, 32b color, 60 Hz p
    Monitor(s) Displays
    built-in 17"
    Screen Resolution
    1600x900
    Hard Drives
    750 GB SATA, ~600 GB free
    Keyboard
    built-in
    Mouse
    Logitech M325 wireless USB mouse
    Internet Speed
    100BASE-T ethernet & 802.11n wi-fi
    Browser
    Firefox v39.0 & M$ IE 10 & Opera
    Antivirus
    AVG IS 2015 (free)
Where is the certificate located? How do you view it to check validity?

I've not seen anyone else complain about this so there has to be more going on here.

Edit: Make sure the date, time and timezone are correct on your computer.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 10 Pro X64
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Lenovo IdeaCenter K450
    CPU
    Intel Quad Core i7-4770 @ 3.4Ghz
    Motherboard
    Lenovo
    Memory
    16.0GB PC3-12800 DDR3 SDRAM 1600 MHz
    Graphics Card(s)
    Intel Integrated HD Graphics
    Sound Card
    Realtek HD Audio
    Monitor(s) Displays
    HP h2207
    Screen Resolution
    1680x1050@59Hz
    Hard Drives
    250GB Samsung EVO SATA-3 SSD;
    2TB Seagate ST2000DM001 SATA-2;
    1.5TB Seagate ST3150041AS SATA
    PSU
    500W
    Keyboard
    Wired USB
    Mouse
    Wired USB
    Internet Speed
    3GB Up, 30GB Down
    Browser
    SeaMonkey
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender; MBAM Pro
    Other Info
    UEFI/GPT
    PLDS DVD-RW DH16AERSH
RxDdude, please consider what I have to say.

You seem to be believing that a security certificate is invalid, which may be true. Sync your system clock to be sure.

You seem to have spiraled from a seemingly mistaken observation about a non existent security certificate to paranoid delusions about government conspiracy or schemes (your wording).


In all seriousness, you might be suffering from depression or some severe boredom in your life. This can manifest into a permanent mental condition that could lead to death or institutionalization. please consider seeing a doctor.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Kernel 4.x
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    CPU
    i5 3570K
    Motherboard
    P8Z77-V LK
    Memory
    G.skill Ripjaw Z 2133MHz 9-11-10-28
    Graphics Card(s)
    GTX770 4GB Dual BIOS
    Sound Card
    Audigy 4 Pro
    Monitor(s) Displays
    32" SAMSUNG HDTV
    Screen Resolution
    1920x1080 progressive
    Hard Drives
    10TB total
    3 RAID arrays
    3 single disks
    PSU
    Corsair HX750
    Case
    Corsair R400
    Cooling
    Corsair H100
    Keyboard
    Logitech G510
    Mouse
    Logitech G5
    Internet Speed
    ~900mbps (~115MB/s) down, ~10mbps(~1.5MB/s) up
    Browser
    Firefox & Chromium
    Antivirus
    Common Sense
A Beter Procedure for accessing the subject certificate.

Ztruker,
. Thank you, for the courteous and thoughtful request for the relevant troubleshooting information w.r.t the expired Windows® certificate.

. Just to get this out of the way, this system's time zone, time, & date are all valid and have always been so, sourced from the Windows time server @ time.windows.com. Currently, when updating this post a minute or two prior to completion, my system located in the western Tennessee River Valley is showing 6:54 AM CDT, Wednesday, July 15, 2015.

. Where is the Certificate located? Within Windows 8 OS, is all I know. Access to the Certificate arises in the following way(s), at least.
. Whenever I try to accept anything for installation from Windows Update, as, for example, the regular monthly Patch Tuesday downloads, I have always been blocked by the Windows feature that I mentioned, User Access Control (hereafter, UAC). The UAC dialog requests confirmation by an administrator and requires entering the logon password for the administrator user account, if the operator is already logged onto Windows in a user account having been endowed with administrator privileges; and if operating in a Windows user account without administrator privileges, e.g., a Standard or Guest account, even if such account is password-protected, the operator must enter in the UAC dialog an administrator-account username in addition to the same administrator-account password. Failing to enter the item(s) in the UAC dialog-box, this Windows user knows of no way to install any program or change any settings protected by this Cert. I cannot even start a System Restore Point without first approving whatever might be done by all changes that might be made, based on the expired certificate for my only assurance of genuineness.

. For short, here's one, simple procedure in my OEM Windows 8 (x64) system, starting with the familiar Control Panel, open this - Control Panel\System and Security\System:
1. Open the System window, located in System and Security area of Control Panel:
2. Mouse-over the line item, System protection, at upper left. shows it to be a hyperlink.
3. Left-click (L-clk) on the lhyperlink, System protection, Observe that the monitor clears all windows and displays only the UAC dialog box; and, that box has text: "Do you want to allow the following program to make changes to your computer?"
4. A program name is listed below that; in this case, it is "System protection settings" plus this: "Verified publisher: Microsoft Windows"
5. Ignore the Password slot if present - leave it blank - and find the pull-down button at left in the UAC d-box, labelled (approx.) "Show Details..."
6. In the newly added text, find the line of text in color, underlined (hyperlink), that offers to let you view the security certificate.
7. L-clk that hyperlink, and the UAC d-box will be overlaid by the Security Certificate viewer d-box. The values for Valid from: and Valid to: dates will be visible in the lower half of this d-box (in its "General" tab). The dates displayed have always been, ever since I un-boxed the PC on 11/22/2013, Valid from:4/9/2012 and Valid to:7/9/2013. Bummer!
. You can click around in that box and on its other tabs, and discover much more information from the cert. without changing anything. When done, just L-clk on "Cancel" or "Done" or "OK" or equivalent, to close the Cert. viewer d-box; and be sure to click "No" or "Cancel" or equivalent in the UAC d-box, and it will vanish without causing any action, and the shortcuts and the opened windows will return to view on your screen immediately. Do not click on "Yes" because that will authorize the program to run its course, and you will be stuck with the results. This procedure above is pretty safe, because In THIS CASE, what you would get with a "Yes" would be the System Protection tab in the "System Properties" d-box. That tab would let you start System Restore to select a Restore Point, or would let you create a new Restore Point, or let you Cancel out without anything changing.

. I might add, that while my then-new Windows 8 PC was still in warranty in January and February of 2014, I telephoned and discussed this issue hour after hour, night after night, with Windows® Support staff, and repeatedly requested that this certificate be updated. In my several years of XP and Vista experience, Microsoft® had frequently included new certificates in the Patch Tuesdays at a few months intervals. However, I was never able to penetrate the hours of verbal haze with which my questions were obfuscated on each of several phone calls by various Support staff, and pretty soon the miniscule 90-days warranty support accompanying purchase of this OEM Windows product was expired, and I was given to understand that I could purchase more warranty support by paying (in fading memory?) maybe $169.00 p.a. But noone would assure me that there would be any better result from Microsoft®, an updated certificate, if I paid them again. So, I was S.O.L. and still stuck. Stuck with personally approving software and OS changes that are guaranteed by this long-ago-expired form of software assurance, if I want to patch any of the vulnerabilities built into these products by the vendor. Certainly, this Windows 8 OS does need the patches.

But, hey, it's Microsoft® software, so, what can one say? Here's hoping that I have given you all the answers you needed, to solve this problem. But you are running Windows 8.1.1, and so your certificates may have all been replaced and updated, while I am struggling to get my OEM Windows 8 updated properly in order to install Windows 8.1 and Update. This cert. is one obstacle to assuring a sound, basic Windows 8 OS, prior to trying to succeed with 8.1; Windows Update is another obstacle to proper updating, also having unexplained issues, but those will be the subject of another thread at least, and previously were identified in a Microsoft Community forum. And Windows 10 is looming on the horizon...
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This message was produced entirely with 100% post-consumer and recycled electrons. No animals were harmed in the creation of this posting.
 
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My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8 (x64)
    Computer type
    Laptop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    H-P Pavilion g7-2270US
    CPU
    Core(TM) i3-5110M, 2.4 GHz
    Motherboard
    OEM --
    Memory
    6 GB DDR3 1333 MHz
    Graphics Card(s)
    Intel® 256 MB, 32b color, 60 Hz p
    Monitor(s) Displays
    built-in 17"
    Screen Resolution
    1600x900
    Hard Drives
    750 GB SATA, ~600 GB free
    Keyboard
    built-in
    Mouse
    Logitech M325 wireless USB mouse
    Internet Speed
    100BASE-T ethernet & 802.11n wi-fi
    Browser
    Firefox v39.0 & M$ IE 10 & Opera
    Antivirus
    AVG IS 2015 (free)
In reply to "hydranix," 2nd above, I shall only recap the known facts. This security certificate is two years out of date, and it is the most frequently-offered certificate when Windows 8's UAC is deployed to protect the system. The administrator is required by this feature of Windows 8, to approve the installation of software changes on the basis of an assurance that the software is genuine, and that assurance is based on a shaky support. Having sync'd my system clock, I am sure.

To Hydranix, you seem to have spiraled from a deficient understanding of software assurance to doubting that criminal hackers and foreign governments' cyber-espionage teams exist and are working every day. It appears that your faith in your intellectual superiority is so great that another's mentioning that such forces do exist in this world wherein they do threaten the privacy, health, and finances of real people on line can be cavalierly ascribed to unwarranted paranoia. How many accredited degrees in psychology and how many years' working experience in mental health professions have you?
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This message was produced entirely with 100% post-consumer and recycled electrons. No animals were harmed in the creation of this posting.
 
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My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8 (x64)
    Computer type
    Laptop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    H-P Pavilion g7-2270US
    CPU
    Core(TM) i3-5110M, 2.4 GHz
    Motherboard
    OEM --
    Memory
    6 GB DDR3 1333 MHz
    Graphics Card(s)
    Intel® 256 MB, 32b color, 60 Hz p
    Monitor(s) Displays
    built-in 17"
    Screen Resolution
    1600x900
    Hard Drives
    750 GB SATA, ~600 GB free
    Keyboard
    built-in
    Mouse
    Logitech M325 wireless USB mouse
    Internet Speed
    100BASE-T ethernet & 802.11n wi-fi
    Browser
    Firefox v39.0 & M$ IE 10 & Opera
    Antivirus
    AVG IS 2015 (free)
Screenshots would help. :)
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1.1 Pro with Media Center
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Gateway
    CPU
    AMD K140 Cores 2 Threads 2 Name AMD K140 Package Socket FT1 BGA Technology 40nm
    Motherboard
    Manufacturer Gateway Model SX2110G (P0)
    Memory
    Type DDR3 Size 8192 MBytes DRAM Frequency 532.3 MHz
    Graphics Card(s)
    ATI AMD Radeon HD 7310 Graphics
    Sound Card
    AMD High Definition Audio Device Realtek High Definition Audio USB Audio Device
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Name 1950W on AMD Radeon HD 7310 Graphics Current Resolution 1366x768 pixels Work Resolution 1366x76
    Screen Resolution
    Current Resolution 1366x768 pixels Work Resolution 1366x768 pixels
    Hard Drives
    AMD K140
    Cores 2
    Threads 2
    Name AMD K140
    Package Socket FT1 BGA
    Technology 40nm
    Specification AMD E1-1200 APU with Radeon HD Graphics
    Family F
    Extended Family 14
    Model 2
    Extended Model 2
    Stepping 0
    Revision ON-C0
    Instruction
    Browser
    Opera 24.0
    Antivirus
    Avast Internet Security
I tried to replicate what your describing and was unsuccessful. The certificate that I see is valid until 10/01/2015 (MM/DD/YYYY)

Looking into it more.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Kernel 4.x
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    CPU
    i5 3570K
    Motherboard
    P8Z77-V LK
    Memory
    G.skill Ripjaw Z 2133MHz 9-11-10-28
    Graphics Card(s)
    GTX770 4GB Dual BIOS
    Sound Card
    Audigy 4 Pro
    Monitor(s) Displays
    32" SAMSUNG HDTV
    Screen Resolution
    1920x1080 progressive
    Hard Drives
    10TB total
    3 RAID arrays
    3 single disks
    PSU
    Corsair HX750
    Case
    Corsair R400
    Cooling
    Corsair H100
    Keyboard
    Logitech G510
    Mouse
    Logitech G5
    Internet Speed
    ~900mbps (~115MB/s) down, ~10mbps(~1.5MB/s) up
    Browser
    Firefox & Chromium
    Antivirus
    Common Sense
OK, I am not aware of your listed OS, Kernel 4.x, and would not be surprised to find that one would need to be running Microsoft® Windows® 8, maybe x64 only, like mine, in order to be presented with this cert. that keeps showing up here.
. I think I made a mistake, suggesting Adobe Flash Player. You, in this case, might be looking at an Adobe certificate rather than this Microsoft certificate. When I updated AFP a few minutes ago, from v18.0.0.203 replacing that with v18.0.0.209 that just came out last night, UAC gave me an Adobe-sourced cert that would be valid to (I don't recall exactly the mm/dd) 2016.
. Please try it with the REVISED procedure that I just inserted in place of the procedure with AFP, in my 2nd post. This alternate route (and there are many alternative routes) keeps us within Windows OS and I think it might give you a better result, but, if your OS is a later version than my Windows 8 (and it's the HP OEM Windows 8 at that, with ~186 patches installed since Nov. 2013) then you could easily be better off than I.
. And I also have been seeing from time to time, other certs from Microsoft, with 2015 or 2016 validity expiration dates. But most things I do, prominently including the using of Windows Update Agent to get the Security Updates and non-security updates for my IE 10, and .NET Frameworks, and Windows 8, when they become available. This old 2013 cert. has always been the cert. presented me by UAC when running Windows Update, and for so many more operations in Windows 8.
. I just find it hard to understand why the mighty Microsoft of Redmond, Washington, has no way for a Customer to get a valid certificate for these purposes. There was, even, a package of updated certs. released by Microsoft last year, maybe Spring of last year, and a good guy gave me the clue to how to download it from microsoft.com, and that package did update several certs. that I had seen as also expired months ago, but it did not affect this major certificate at all. Bummer!
 
Last edited:

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8 (x64)
    Computer type
    Laptop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    H-P Pavilion g7-2270US
    CPU
    Core(TM) i3-5110M, 2.4 GHz
    Motherboard
    OEM --
    Memory
    6 GB DDR3 1333 MHz
    Graphics Card(s)
    Intel® 256 MB, 32b color, 60 Hz p
    Monitor(s) Displays
    built-in 17"
    Screen Resolution
    1600x900
    Hard Drives
    750 GB SATA, ~600 GB free
    Keyboard
    built-in
    Mouse
    Logitech M325 wireless USB mouse
    Internet Speed
    100BASE-T ethernet & 802.11n wi-fi
    Browser
    Firefox v39.0 & M$ IE 10 & Opera
    Antivirus
    AVG IS 2015 (free)
Screenshots would help. :)

Thanks, Mr. Bailey. I can supply screenshots [actually, JPEG photos - - haven't figured out how to get a screenshot in Windows 8 since the simple, old ALT+PRT SCRN seems to have been eliminated by our benefactors at Microsoft®], but I am kind of bushed, stayed up all night preparing these replies with carefully selected post-consumer and recycled electrons, and would like to post photo or two after I can have a couple of hours of sleep. Have to get some tasks done, too, others will be waiting. Look for me by 11 PM this evening, though.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8 (x64)
    Computer type
    Laptop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    H-P Pavilion g7-2270US
    CPU
    Core(TM) i3-5110M, 2.4 GHz
    Motherboard
    OEM --
    Memory
    6 GB DDR3 1333 MHz
    Graphics Card(s)
    Intel® 256 MB, 32b color, 60 Hz p
    Monitor(s) Displays
    built-in 17"
    Screen Resolution
    1600x900
    Hard Drives
    750 GB SATA, ~600 GB free
    Keyboard
    built-in
    Mouse
    Logitech M325 wireless USB mouse
    Internet Speed
    100BASE-T ethernet & 802.11n wi-fi
    Browser
    Firefox v39.0 & M$ IE 10 & Opera
    Antivirus
    AVG IS 2015 (free)
In reply to "hydranix," 2nd above, I shall only recap the known facts. This security certificate is two years out of date, and it is the most frequently-offered certificate when Windows 8's UAC is deployed to protect the system. The administrator is required by this feature of Windows 8, to approve the installation of software changes on the basis of an assurance that the software is genuine, and that assurance is based on a shaky support. Having sync'd my system clock, I am sure.
I think you're a little mistaken. When a code signing certificate expires, timestamped code signed by the certificate doesn't expire. Files on a computer can go years without being updated, when they're signed, you know the code hasn't changed, and signing them again with an updated certificate won't make them any more secure or safe. Quite the opposite in fact.

To Hydranix, you seem to have spiraled from a deficient understanding of software assurance to doubting that criminal hackers and foreign governments' cyber-espionage teams exist and are working every day. It appears that your faith in your intellectual superiority is so great that another's mentioning that such forces do exist in this world wherein they do threaten the privacy, health, and finances of real people on line can be cavalierly ascribed to unwarranted paranoia.

No, I haven't actually. Where exactly did I do any of these things?

OK, I am not aware of your listed OS, Kernel 4.x, and would not be surprised to find that one would need to be running Microsoft® Windows® 8, maybe x64 only, like mine, in order to be presented with this cert. that keeps showing up here.
I use the Linux kernel 4.x.x as the basis of the operating system I use day-to-day. I also have several versions of Windows.

. I think I made a mistake, suggesting Adobe Flash Player. You, in this case, might be looking at an Adobe certificate rather than this Microsoft certificate. When I updated AFP a few minutes ago, from v18.0.0.203 replacing that with v18.0.0.209 that just came out last night, UAC gave me an Adobe-sourced cert that would be valid to (I don't recall exactly the mm/dd) 2016.

Adobe flash player is very insecure, and probably the most exploited software to date. Just recently several remote code execution 0-day exploits were leaked. It's very unwise to use Flash player on a computer which you pass any kind of sensitive information through.

. And I also have been seeing from time to time, other certs from Microsoft, with 2015 or 2016 validity expiration dates. But most things I do, prominently including the using of Windows Update Agent to get the Security Updates and non-security updates for my IE 10, and .NET Frameworks, and Windows 8, when they become available. This old 2013 cert. has always been the cert. presented me by UAC when running Windows Update, and for so many more operations in Windows 8.

Perhaps you have UAC turned up all the way. You would be better off modifying your group policy for UAC to better suit your needs.

. I just find it hard to understand why the mighty Microsoft of Redmond, Washington, has no way for a Customer to get a valid certificate for these purposes. There was, even, a package of updated certs. released by Microsoft last year, maybe Spring of last year, and a good guy gave me the clue to how to download it from microsoft.com, and that package did update several certs. that I had seen as also expired months ago, but it did not affect this major certificate at all. Bummer!

The certificate was valid when it was used to sign and timestamp whatever software you are trying to run. This is all that matters, and even still, it matters very little in terms of security.
 
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My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Kernel 4.x
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    CPU
    i5 3570K
    Motherboard
    P8Z77-V LK
    Memory
    G.skill Ripjaw Z 2133MHz 9-11-10-28
    Graphics Card(s)
    GTX770 4GB Dual BIOS
    Sound Card
    Audigy 4 Pro
    Monitor(s) Displays
    32" SAMSUNG HDTV
    Screen Resolution
    1920x1080 progressive
    Hard Drives
    10TB total
    3 RAID arrays
    3 single disks
    PSU
    Corsair HX750
    Case
    Corsair R400
    Cooling
    Corsair H100
    Keyboard
    Logitech G510
    Mouse
    Logitech G5
    Internet Speed
    ~900mbps (~115MB/s) down, ~10mbps(~1.5MB/s) up
    Browser
    Firefox & Chromium
    Antivirus
    Common Sense
Screenshots would help. :)

Thanks, Mr. Bailey. I can supply screenshots [actually, JPEG photos - - haven't figured out how to get a screenshot in Windows 8 since the simple, old ALT+PRT SCRN seems to have been eliminated by our benefactors at Microsoft®], but I am kind of bushed, stayed up all night preparing these replies with carefully selected post-consumer and recycled electrons, and would like to post photo or two after I can have a couple of hours of sleep. Have to get some tasks done, too, others will be waiting. Look for me by 11 PM this evening, though.

alt+print screen still works.
It captures the active window.

Print Screen key captures the whole screen.

Paste into Paint or whatever & save as .jpg.

A tutorial---

http://www.eightforums.com/tutorials/2598-screenshots-files-upload-post-eight-forums.html
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1.1 Pro with Media Center
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Gateway
    CPU
    AMD K140 Cores 2 Threads 2 Name AMD K140 Package Socket FT1 BGA Technology 40nm
    Motherboard
    Manufacturer Gateway Model SX2110G (P0)
    Memory
    Type DDR3 Size 8192 MBytes DRAM Frequency 532.3 MHz
    Graphics Card(s)
    ATI AMD Radeon HD 7310 Graphics
    Sound Card
    AMD High Definition Audio Device Realtek High Definition Audio USB Audio Device
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Name 1950W on AMD Radeon HD 7310 Graphics Current Resolution 1366x768 pixels Work Resolution 1366x76
    Screen Resolution
    Current Resolution 1366x768 pixels Work Resolution 1366x768 pixels
    Hard Drives
    AMD K140
    Cores 2
    Threads 2
    Name AMD K140
    Package Socket FT1 BGA
    Technology 40nm
    Specification AMD E1-1200 APU with Radeon HD Graphics
    Family F
    Extended Family 14
    Model 2
    Extended Model 2
    Stepping 0
    Revision ON-C0
    Instruction
    Browser
    Opera 24.0
    Antivirus
    Avast Internet Security
When I tried to follow the steps you listed, I didn't get far.

SYSProt.jpg

When I clicked on System Protection I went straight to System Properties. Probably because I have UAC set to Never Notify.
I'll change it to the default setting and see what happens.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 10 Pro X64
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Lenovo IdeaCenter K450
    CPU
    Intel Quad Core i7-4770 @ 3.4Ghz
    Motherboard
    Lenovo
    Memory
    16.0GB PC3-12800 DDR3 SDRAM 1600 MHz
    Graphics Card(s)
    Intel Integrated HD Graphics
    Sound Card
    Realtek HD Audio
    Monitor(s) Displays
    HP h2207
    Screen Resolution
    1680x1050@59Hz
    Hard Drives
    250GB Samsung EVO SATA-3 SSD;
    2TB Seagate ST2000DM001 SATA-2;
    1.5TB Seagate ST3150041AS SATA
    PSU
    500W
    Keyboard
    Wired USB
    Mouse
    Wired USB
    Internet Speed
    3GB Up, 30GB Down
    Browser
    SeaMonkey
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender; MBAM Pro
    Other Info
    UEFI/GPT
    PLDS DVD-RW DH16AERSH
Made no difference with UAC set to it's default value. Did exactly the same as I listed above.
I'm on Windows 8.1 Pro X64.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 10 Pro X64
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Lenovo IdeaCenter K450
    CPU
    Intel Quad Core i7-4770 @ 3.4Ghz
    Motherboard
    Lenovo
    Memory
    16.0GB PC3-12800 DDR3 SDRAM 1600 MHz
    Graphics Card(s)
    Intel Integrated HD Graphics
    Sound Card
    Realtek HD Audio
    Monitor(s) Displays
    HP h2207
    Screen Resolution
    1680x1050@59Hz
    Hard Drives
    250GB Samsung EVO SATA-3 SSD;
    2TB Seagate ST2000DM001 SATA-2;
    1.5TB Seagate ST3150041AS SATA
    PSU
    500W
    Keyboard
    Wired USB
    Mouse
    Wired USB
    Internet Speed
    3GB Up, 30GB Down
    Browser
    SeaMonkey
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender; MBAM Pro
    Other Info
    UEFI/GPT
    PLDS DVD-RW DH16AERSH
Did find out how to view all certificates though:

View or manage your certificates

Applies to Windows Vista

You must be logged on as an administrator to perform these steps.
You can use Certificate Manager to see details about your certificates, modify them, delete them, or request new ones.

  • Open Certificate Manager by clicking the Start button
    4f6cbd09-148c-4dd8-b1f2-48f232a2fd33_47.png
    , typing certmgr.msc into the Search box, and then pressing ENTER.*
    18abb370-ac1e-4b6b-b663-e028a75bf05b_41.png
    If you are prompted for an administrator password or confirmation, type the password or provide confirmation.

SecCert.jpg

Not sure if that helps this discussiuon or not but interesting none the less.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 10 Pro X64
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Lenovo IdeaCenter K450
    CPU
    Intel Quad Core i7-4770 @ 3.4Ghz
    Motherboard
    Lenovo
    Memory
    16.0GB PC3-12800 DDR3 SDRAM 1600 MHz
    Graphics Card(s)
    Intel Integrated HD Graphics
    Sound Card
    Realtek HD Audio
    Monitor(s) Displays
    HP h2207
    Screen Resolution
    1680x1050@59Hz
    Hard Drives
    250GB Samsung EVO SATA-3 SSD;
    2TB Seagate ST2000DM001 SATA-2;
    1.5TB Seagate ST3150041AS SATA
    PSU
    500W
    Keyboard
    Wired USB
    Mouse
    Wired USB
    Internet Speed
    3GB Up, 30GB Down
    Browser
    SeaMonkey
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender; MBAM Pro
    Other Info
    UEFI/GPT
    PLDS DVD-RW DH16AERSH
Did find out how to view all certificates though:

View or manage your certificates

Applies to Windows Vista

You must be logged on as an administrator to perform these steps.
You can use Certificate Manager to see details about your certificates, modify them, delete them, or request new ones.

  • Open Certificate Manager by clicking the Start button
    4f6cbd09-148c-4dd8-b1f2-48f232a2fd33_47.png
    , typing certmgr.msc into the Search box, and then pressing ENTER.*
    18abb370-ac1e-4b6b-b663-e028a75bf05b_41.png
    If you are prompted for an administrator password or confirmation, type the password or provide confirmation.

----8<---

Not sure if that helps this discussiuon or not but interesting none the less.



Try this method instead, you can view more certificates this way. (Each individual user, service, as well as the local system)

Start the program "mmc.exe" it should elevate to administrator, if it doesn't, be sure to run it as admin,

Then go to File > Add or Remove Snap-In... > Certificate Manager > "Add >"

Select the certificate store to show, and from there you can poke around at which certificates your computer has installed.


The code signing certificates obviously won't show up here, only the certificates of the issuer, under certificate authorities.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Kernel 4.x
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    CPU
    i5 3570K
    Motherboard
    P8Z77-V LK
    Memory
    G.skill Ripjaw Z 2133MHz 9-11-10-28
    Graphics Card(s)
    GTX770 4GB Dual BIOS
    Sound Card
    Audigy 4 Pro
    Monitor(s) Displays
    32" SAMSUNG HDTV
    Screen Resolution
    1920x1080 progressive
    Hard Drives
    10TB total
    3 RAID arrays
    3 single disks
    PSU
    Corsair HX750
    Case
    Corsair R400
    Cooling
    Corsair H100
    Keyboard
    Logitech G510
    Mouse
    Logitech G5
    Internet Speed
    ~900mbps (~115MB/s) down, ~10mbps(~1.5MB/s) up
    Browser
    Firefox & Chromium
    Antivirus
    Common Sense
Paertial reply to hydranix, more tomorrow, perhaps ...

1. Re your comment on UAC settings: The settings here are approved and recommended by Microsoft® as I have them set. Windows 8 gives me in System and Security\Action Center\User Account Control Settings, the following recommendation regarding the currently set level for UAC action:
"Recommended if you frequently install new software and visit unfamiliar websites." Yes, I do install bunches of new software (mainly from Microsoft or Mozilla) every month, and I have task assignments that require me to seek information on websites all over, that I never saw before. Do you take issue with Microsoft's official policy in this area? It would be interesting to understand why.
2.
... The certificate was valid when it was used to sign and timestamp whatever software you are trying to run. This is all that matters, and even still, it matters very little in terms of security.
Well, But, and However: the expired certificate is the only certificate used by UAC for the one time that User admin OK is granted, to run maybe 15 or more new patches and updates in one batch. With a number of these updates, the same certificate was used to get the User admin OK to completely replace a major program. For example, Internet Explorer m replaced by Internet Explorer n, or a .NET Framework version replacement, or a Service Pack - - all, new software packages, generated long after this certificate expired that is offered for assurance of genuineness of a new program.
Another example: Skype for the Desktop is being pushed as an Optional install, a new program, not a replacement. Skype never before had appeared in the list of programs. These are new software; no UAC showed up with any valid certificate, to guarantee genuineness prior to the time at which the admin MUST give her or his approval. The files now have Year 2015 dates. The certificate expired in 2013.
Windows does not offer us any UI to furnish any means of verifying that any Update for Windows 8 was certified by anything better than the expired certificate. If there is such, please refer me to well-recognized security authority that recommends relying on expired certificates for software security assurance. It seems risky, to me.
If, as you asserted, valid dates don't matter to security, then, why would dates be carried in the certificate, to begin with?
P.S. - - I don't pretend to have a lot of knowledge & training in the arcane inner workings of Windows, PKCS, etc. Am really looking to learn; to learn at least what I ought to & need to know for practical internetworking and for hanging onto my money and financial, etc., PII. So, seeing cert. expired, and nowhere finding gurus giving recognized expert guidance saying it doesn't matter, makes it seem risky. If you have found some Microsoft KBs or NIST or CERT or IETC or RFC documents that guarantee that such is not risky, please, share the references with me. - R.
==========================================================================================

This document contains 100% post-consumer and recycled electrons. No animals were harmed in the production and transmission of this document.
 
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My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8 (x64)
    Computer type
    Laptop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    H-P Pavilion g7-2270US
    CPU
    Core(TM) i3-5110M, 2.4 GHz
    Motherboard
    OEM --
    Memory
    6 GB DDR3 1333 MHz
    Graphics Card(s)
    Intel® 256 MB, 32b color, 60 Hz p
    Monitor(s) Displays
    built-in 17"
    Screen Resolution
    1600x900
    Hard Drives
    750 GB SATA, ~600 GB free
    Keyboard
    built-in
    Mouse
    Logitech M325 wireless USB mouse
    Internet Speed
    100BASE-T ethernet & 802.11n wi-fi
    Browser
    Firefox v39.0 & M$ IE 10 & Opera
    Antivirus
    AVG IS 2015 (free)
Do you take issue with Microsoft's official policy in this area? It would be interesting to understand why.
2.

For me, because because I find UAC annoying. I'd totally disable it if it didn't interfere with using Settings.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 10 Pro X64
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Lenovo IdeaCenter K450
    CPU
    Intel Quad Core i7-4770 @ 3.4Ghz
    Motherboard
    Lenovo
    Memory
    16.0GB PC3-12800 DDR3 SDRAM 1600 MHz
    Graphics Card(s)
    Intel Integrated HD Graphics
    Sound Card
    Realtek HD Audio
    Monitor(s) Displays
    HP h2207
    Screen Resolution
    1680x1050@59Hz
    Hard Drives
    250GB Samsung EVO SATA-3 SSD;
    2TB Seagate ST2000DM001 SATA-2;
    1.5TB Seagate ST3150041AS SATA
    PSU
    500W
    Keyboard
    Wired USB
    Mouse
    Wired USB
    Internet Speed
    3GB Up, 30GB Down
    Browser
    SeaMonkey
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender; MBAM Pro
    Other Info
    UEFI/GPT
    PLDS DVD-RW DH16AERSH
Do you take issue with Microsoft's official policy in this area? It would be interesting to understand why.
2.
For me, because because I find UAC annoying. I'd totally disable it if it didn't interfere with using Settings.

Z. - Understandable. Microsoft@ asserts its risky, though, and am processing sensitive info on this W8 machine, so, will want to stick with UAC.

Bailey Quote >> - "alt+print screen still works" You are right - it worked for me, too, tonight. It didn't work, the last several times, months ago. Maybe, signs of something corrupted somewhere. This machine has had some interesting manifestations from time to time.
I uploaded the "screenshots" from the camera yesterday- - I'll have to try to get those pix organized tomorrow and post them. Good night.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8 (x64)
    Computer type
    Laptop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    H-P Pavilion g7-2270US
    CPU
    Core(TM) i3-5110M, 2.4 GHz
    Motherboard
    OEM --
    Memory
    6 GB DDR3 1333 MHz
    Graphics Card(s)
    Intel® 256 MB, 32b color, 60 Hz p
    Monitor(s) Displays
    built-in 17"
    Screen Resolution
    1600x900
    Hard Drives
    750 GB SATA, ~600 GB free
    Keyboard
    built-in
    Mouse
    Logitech M325 wireless USB mouse
    Internet Speed
    100BASE-T ethernet & 802.11n wi-fi
    Browser
    Firefox v39.0 & M$ IE 10 & Opera
    Antivirus
    AVG IS 2015 (free)
RxDdude what are you really trying to achieve?

just read through this and all I can think is what are you really concerned/worried/scared about- identity theft and criminal acts online like your bank passwords stolen right?

You are worried that when you install updates from Windows, you don't "trust" them because of the way Microsoft (boy, it's not like this company hasn't had problems in the way it programs its OS.. ha..) you don't trust them because of the way Microsoft doesn't update their Certificates..

Ok well, look I can understand your concern about all the privacy stuff.. ok fine, but here is the real low-down deal no matter what you think.

Even if you are the most safe,secure you ever could be on your computer, when you log into your "bank" website, the problem is, even your bank website can get hacked. So no matter what, your bank could be hacked etc.. It's very unlikely but you've seen the stories before, like SONY and many various other companies that have been "hacked" and information stolen etc..

SO my advice is this : have 2 computers. Computer A and Computer B.

Computer A (safe computer) will never do anything but just open the safest most secure browser, which some say is Chrome, and then ONLY go to your banking website and whatever sensitive websites and information you want to keep safe and secure.. Do not install anything on this computer.. NOTHING.. just only run the Windows Updates.. (which is funny because you don't trust that..)

Computer B will be your do anything computer and don't care about what you do or people steal and see your privacy online and what not.. this computer you can just keep reinstalling windows or whatever to rid yourself of anything you are afraid of.. Computer B will NEVER do anything SENSITIVE online or use Emails or anything that require you to type passwords etc..

Now I can't wait for you to throwdown your comments at me telling me I don't have degrees in ....

but i'm only trying to help man.



**Edit -
oh and I neglected to mention having two computers costs nothing these days.. It's sometimes less than $250 for computers and for that "safe" computer A that you won't do anything with that could harm your identity..etc - isn't that worth it? It can be a Laptop and small so it's not in the way either.. etc..
 
Last edited:

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    windows 8.1
    Computer type
    Laptop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Lenovo g750
    CPU
    i5
    Motherboard
    Some Chinese Crap..
    Memory
    8
    Graphics Card(s)
    Nvidia 755
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender
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