I'm going to challenge all you Win8 haters...

J4rrod

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I know the complaints all you haters have. I know you think that the Desktop isn't prominent enough. I know you want a Start menu on the Desktop. I'm aware of all of this.

In fact, up until yesterday, while I loved Windows 8 RP, it did feel a bit awkward going from Desktop to Metro all the time, so I know where y'all are coming from. Then, I had a thought: why do I have to use the Desktop?

So here's what I did...

I refrained from using the Desktop whatsoever in this preview. I just simply do not use it anymore, and yes I'm on a regular, non-touch Sony VAIO.

Give that a try. Do not even go into the Desktop. Do this for like, a day at least. Picture it as an ASUS Transformer type of thing; your keyboard and mouse you're using is the dock to the tablet which is your monitor. Use the Metro IE, use Metro apps, etc. to get your stuff done. I'm telling you, I have a new outlook on this OS.

If you do this, let me know your thoughts.
 

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I had the same thought. But the Metro Apps are far inferior to what I am using now (and they take a long time to start). Besides some do not work correctly. The workaround is to setup tiles for your preferred traditional apps.

I kind of like the Metro IE for occasional use. But how do I get my 1580 favorites into it. You can, of course, set the IE such that the Metro tile calls the desktop IE. But then you are back on the desktop.

So the idea is tempting but the realities make it a bit awkward.
 

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Let me give you an example.

I am currently building a miniature version of Win 8 ( leaving out as much metro rubbish as possible).

I have multiple wim images mounted simultaneously - I also have several reg editing programs , and several wim manipulation programs running simultaneously ( some of which I wrote myself ).

At the same time , I am constantly going back and forth between previous builds, file lists, reg files , etc across 17 drives, testing out various combinations in several temp folders, before adding anything to my build. That involves moving and manipulating thousands of files and tens of thousands of reg, entries - repeatedly.

Try doing that with Metro.
 

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To the OP:

95% of the apps I use don't have anything even close to a metro counterpart. How on earth would that even be possible?

This statement leads me closer to my conclusion that people that love Metro are people that don't actually do much other than mail and web on their computers, and people that use their computers in any serious way don't like it because it seriously gets in the way of being productive.

And frankly, I just plain feel insulted by all the metro apps, like I'm some kind of dottering fool with bad eyesight that gets scared of a too many buttons at once. I don't even know why I even have a 24 inch monitor for my Win8 machine. :/

[Edit] Ugh, that's harsh, I don't mean to criticise other people for the way they use their computer either, but I do feel seriously let down by MS in a huge way, like never before (Well other than MS Bob, that was bad). I just feel like they have personally kicked me and my kind to the curb, we're no longer important. And at the same time using us, well herding us like sheep into a market they are trying to create that I want no part of. Yes.. it's personal. :) [/Edit]
 
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It seems to me Fseal has a point.

As far as I can tell, those who like Metro must only be doing simple straightforward things.

The kind of thing you can pretty much do on a phone.

There is nothing wrong with that.

If that is all they need to do - fine. If they like to do those things with Metro - also fine - I am happy for them.

I do not criticize them for it.
 

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those that use office applications, cad programs, graphic programs, medical programs and other business programs, will be totally frustrated by the metro desktop, umm most businesses will find this very hard to use and less productitve.

Those who just surf the net, check email, like to play games and look at pictures will love the new metro.

As for me I am the first one.

The only thing Windows 8 will do for me is give me more money when my clients purchase it and find they have not a clue how to use it :p and hire me to teach them,

robin
 

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Hmm, that would mean I can't ever go to control panel, device manager, explorer, network and sharing, devices and printers, .......
Any time you open up or go to one of the above metro disappears. Plus as already mentioned, there aren't apps available to cover all of what I want to do on my PC.
 

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Agreed

To the OP:

95% of the apps I use don't have anything even close to a metro counterpart. How on earth would that even be possible?

This statement leads me closer to my conclusion that people that love Metro are people that don't actually do much other than mail and web on their computers, and people that use their computers in any serious way don't like it because it seriously gets in the way of being productive.

That's the only reasonable conclusion.

Yesterday I had ~10 windows open, whilst I was doing my TAFE assignments:
  • Multiple Windows Explorer windows.
  • Word (instructions and references).
  • Foxit (instructions and references).
  • XPS (instructions and references).
  • Firefox.
  • Winamp.
  • GIMP.
  • Notepad++.
  • VMware Workstation.
The VMware Workstation guest OS had 4 windows open.
 

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I have tried to use mostly metro apps and that's fine but that's only if I'm doing basic stuff like checking mail and surfing the web. But if I was doing design work then I would not be able to get any work done. Maybe with a pen but I've never used a touch based drawing software where I could work well with so far. I would not prefer typing with touch either but more importantly my design work would not be able to happen with touch maybe with a pen it would be even easier than mouse so I can see that happening but touch based only then no. Metro isn't bad but I find it's mostly for basic tasks such as surfing the web and checking email but I guess that's what they are trying to target. A lot of the metro apps look like boring websites though so there's that.
 

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I like Windows 8 and will definitely buy it when the full version comes out. But I use Metro as a program. It gives me news aps (which I like) and a few free games (none of which are that good).
 

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    Windows 8
Face it. METRO is only a graphic menu. After selecting the program, particularly a "Metro" application, the various problems begin. Escaping, for a moment, from the home user, how on earth can office secretaries, having selected, say, Office, make any further use of Metro in order to type. How can Accountants or graphics engineers, have multiple Metro panes open on their screens.
 

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    Windows 8.1
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I've actually been doing that with the exception of Zune. I don't have Office 2010 installed as I don't need to use Office at the moment, but I still will be using the Desktop when Office 15 beta comes out later this month. But I also need to use Windows Explorer, but I'd say I'm in half and half of each interface. I think it works.
 

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Give that a try. Do not even go into the Desktop.

This is like telling a baseball player: try getting on base without using a bat. Tough? Yes. Impossible? No. OK, so what if you're a power hitter who makes his living with a big fat slugging % vs. OB%?

A bunch of people hate Metro based on aesthetics, I am not denying that because I'm one of them. But if that were the only reason then you'd have a totally different, stronger argument. It's precisely because desktop users use desktops that 8 isn't appealing.

FSeal nailed it earlier here, and even Paul Thurrott can see what's going on:

Microsoft hasn’t made such an obviously consumer-centric version of Windows since Millennium Edition (Windows Me), and the question isn’t whether businesses will ignore this release, as they did Windows Vista. Of course they will. The question is whether Microsoft is (understandably) ignoring businesses with this release or if they’re being openly antagonistic to a market that, thus far, has been responsible for most of the software giant’s successes. Let’s hope it’s just the former.

Let me know when there's an app that Pixar can use to make entire movies.
Let me know when there's an app that will pay every business for every monitor upgrade to touch.
Let me know when there's an app that extends your arm like Plastic Man so you can reach the screen.
Let me know when there's an app that can publish a full-blown newspaper or magazine.
Let me know when there's an app to keep track of the budget of a city or a company the size of Wal-Mart.
Let me know when there's an app that will organize a multi-billion $ hedge fund.
Let me know when there's an app to run every aspect of a recording studio.
Let me know when there's an app that matches the benchmarks of Battlefield 3 on Ultra at 1920×1080.
Let me know when there's an app that can water cool your machine for Battlefield 3 on Ultra at 1920×1080.
Let me know when there's an app that can upgrade all your tablet components as easily as a desktop.
Let me know when there's an app that can forecast thunderstorms.
Let me know when there's an app that replaces a 2 TB hard drive.
Let me know when there's an app that can replace an entire server farm.


I mean, c'mon.....
 

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Face it. METRO is only a graphic menu. After selecting the program, particularly a "Metro" application, the various problems begin. .

Dave, you're making some valid points. Some of the aps just don't work well for me. But the news aps and the Wikipedia aps work fine, and so does the weather ap. I treat it as a program.
 

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  • OS
    Windows 8
Give that a try. Do not even go into the Desktop.

This is like telling a baseball player: try getting on base without using a bat. Tough? Yes. Impossible? No. OK, so what if you're a power hitter who makes his living with a big fat slugging % vs. OB%?

A bunch of people hate Metro based on aesthetics, I am not denying that because I'm one of them. But if that were the only reason then you'd have a totally different, stronger argument. It's precisely because desktop users use desktops that 8 isn't appealing.

FSeal nailed it earlier here, and even Paul Thurrott can see what's going on:

Microsoft hasn’t made such an obviously consumer-centric version of Windows since Millennium Edition (Windows Me), and the question isn’t whether businesses will ignore this release, as they did Windows Vista. Of course they will. The question is whether Microsoft is (understandably) ignoring businesses with this release or if they’re being openly antagonistic to a market that, thus far, has been responsible for most of the software giant’s successes. Let’s hope it’s just the former.

Let me know when there's an app that Pixar can use to make entire movies.
Let me know when there's an app that will pay every business for every monitor upgrade to touch.
Let me know when there's an app that extends your arm like Plastic Man so you can reach the screen.
Let me know when there's an app that can publish a full-blown newspaper or magazine.
Let me know when there's an app to keep track of the budget of a city or a company the size of Wal-Mart.
Let me know when there's an app that will organize a multi-billion $ hedge fund.
Let me know when there's an app to run every aspect of a recording studio.
Let me know when there's an app that matches the benchmarks of Battlefield 3 on Ultra at 1920×1080.
Let me know when there's an app that can water cool your machine for Battlefield 3 on Ultra at 1920×1080.
Let me know when there's an app that can upgrade all your tablet components as easily as a desktop.
Let me know when there's an app that can forecast thunderstorms.
Let me know when there's an app that replaces a 2 TB hard drive.
Let me know when there's an app that can replace an entire server farm.


I mean, c'mon.....
I know of that app that can do all that, the Desktop. Seriously though, I think the main point of Windows 8 is being lost here. It will cause serious changes. Windows 8 IS serious change. Do you really think in 10 years from now, the typical business is going to be using desktops anymore? I mean, a lot of places could easily swap out a desktop for a laptop if it were cost effective, and I bet some would choose a tablet option. Yes, the desktop will still be there for certain things a mobile device isn't cut out for. But for the vast majority of other devices, they will be mobile and many will be touch. I think 8 gets too much flack from desktop users basing their judgments on something that is being touted as a reimaged Windows for new PCs. History has already shown that change may suck initially, but gets developed upon until the next era of change. It's what happened when Windows 95 came out when Windows 3 was Microsoft's first commercial success. Many questioned it and many thought that using a mouse was superfluous compared to a keyboard. DOS was built for keyboard. 95 was designed to take advantage of the mouse. 8 takes advantage of the both along with touch and along with gesture.

And another thing, this is a personal rant now, I find issue with desktop "power" users. NOT EVERYONE HAS A HIGH END PERFORMING DESKTOP WITH MULTIPLE MONITORS AND LATEST INTEL CHIPSET OR A HIGH RESOLTION MONITOR. If they did, we wouldn't be here talking about metro or Windows 8 and all that. Instead, we are here talking about what the modern day consumer of PCs is looking for: battery life, portability, and overall decent performance. And the software to run that is a version of Windows for new PCs, not just desktops.

That is all.
 

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The Start Menu is completely irrelevant to the issues I have with Metro.

If Microsoft (or Linux or Apple for that matter) have a better idea than the Start Menu then great, I'm quite happy to hear it, the Start Menu is (and has been for many years) a bloated beast that's difficult to use. I just don't think that Metro is the answer.

Again, unless I'm doing a bit of web browsing or checking my mail, then I invariably fall back to the Desktop. Now there are two main reasons for this, the first is that a lot of apps just aren't Metro compatible yet. This will undoubtably change when 8 is released.

My bigger problem however is multitasking, if I try to use Meto, I am restricted to ONE Metro app. Why? because my primary monitor is 8 pixels short of what Microsoft feel is necessary to pin an app. Why I have no idea, as frankly Vista quite happily had a news feed in the side bar back when I had 1280*1024 screen size and at the moment Metro Apps are little more than that. Never mind the fact I have two screens, and can quite happily fit at least 4 apps across both screens (using Snap) on my regular desktop setup.

So, I have a separate challenge for Microsoft: 1) rethink your screen size policys. Or 2) take into account multiple monitors, allow Metro across both, and let me snap more than 2 apps. Also let me decide the size of them. If you do that, then the lack of apps is not your fault, so we will see what happens.
 

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Coke Robot said:
And another thing, this is a personal rant now, I find issue with desktop "power" users. NOT EVERYONE HAS A HIGH END PERFORMING DESKTOP WITH MULTIPLE MONITORS AND LATEST INTEL CHIPSET OR A HIGH RESOLTION MONITOR. If they did, we wouldn't be here talking about metro or Windows 8 and all that. Instead, we are here talking about what the modern day consumer of PCs is looking for: battery life, portability, and overall decent performance. And the software to run that is a version of Windows for new PCs, not just desktops.

Then good luck running Metro.... Yes, not everyone has my setup. You are once again completely missing the point though!

Lets take my girlfriends laptop as an example. She's just gone and bought a nice shiny brand new 10.1" laptop with a screen resolution of 1360*760, which (completely by fluke) we happened to buy on the first day of the Windows 8 upgrade offer, so it will be eligible for the upgrade. Guess what? Although she could run Metro, she can't pin apps. Often while writing (which is what this laptop is used for) she will have Wikipedia, dictionary.com, and office all open at the same time. As a minimum! This is assuming she isn't on MSN to her mum as well. She can only do one thing at a time, and multitasking is next to impossible, never mind comparing what she has written to what she is researching. To quote "Snap is the best thing that Microsoft have ever done."

This is the consumer you are talking about, with one of the new form factors you are talking about. She doesn't have a desktop, she isn't a power user, she is Joe Average Consumer incarnate. Its crap on there too.
 

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Seriously though, I think the main point of Windows 8 is being lost here. It will cause serious changes. Windows 8 IS serious change. Do you really think in 10 years from now, the typical business is going to be using desktops anymore?

Yes, I think a lot will. Not as many, but in 3-4 years there will be 2 billion desktops in use! I've posted this before, but even though the rate of sales of PCs is slowing down, that doesn't mean their total use is slowing down. It's still going up. In 10 years you can't replace that much data, that much power, that soon with devices and Metro-ish apps. Try 50 years. Or more realistically, a century. It's got nothing to do with not wanting to migrate to different platforms - which is happening anyway - and everything to do with practicality.

Heck, you may never see the desktop ever disappear completely. Human beings invented the boat thousands of years ago. Maybe 10,000-20,000 years ago. No one knows. People are still using boats. Why? It's such an old stupid technology, there are better things than boats like rockets. Oh wait - we've been using rockets since Genghis Khan.
 

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    OCZ ModXStream 700W
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    25 Mbps/25 Mbps
... the Start Menu is (and has been for many years) a bloated beast that's difficult to use. I just don't think that Metro is the answer ...

I agree ... I've tried *not* to use it for years!! Therefore I'm not missing it much now in Win8 , but I completely understand why some people are!

Whether the Metro screen will replace it we'll have to wait and see , I just wish people who disagree with whats going on would stop all the 'fanboy-ism' insulting that goes on , and just agree to disagree sometimes.
 

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  • OS
    Windows 7 64bit SP1
I know the complaints all you haters have. I know you think that the Desktop isn't prominent enough. I know you want a Start menu on the Desktop. I'm aware of all of this.

In fact, up until yesterday, while I loved Windows 8 RP, it did feel a bit awkward going from Desktop to Metro all the time, so I know where y'all are coming from. Then, I had a thought: why do I have to use the Desktop?

So here's what I did...

I refrained from using the Desktop whatsoever in this preview. I just simply do not use it anymore, and yes I'm on a regular, non-touch Sony VAIO.

Give that a try. Do not even go into the Desktop. Do this for like, a day at least. Picture it as an ASUS Transformer type of thing; your keyboard and mouse you're using is the dock to the tablet which is your monitor. Use the Metro IE, use Metro apps, etc. to get your stuff done. I'm telling you, I have a new outlook on this OS.

If you do this, let me know your thoughts.

Hi there
please tell me then what you would have to do to translate a document without having the original side by side with your new one or comparing the prices of articles found on 2 or more different websites without showing them simultaneously. I often have to translate Dutch into Icelandic and English for power point presentations.

And that's just for starters.

cheers
jimbo
 

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