Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums


I'm going to challenge all you Win8 haters...

  1. #31


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    The metro UI for now has certain limitations for certain people, but it does have a Desktop and has a new way to get around. But even then, if the start menu was that great, it would had seen more use. The reason why it was taken out was the because of the Windows 7 taskbar that eliminated half of the start menu's use. As for metro app use, that's why there's a dedicated Windows RT version. See, a lot of problems wouldn't be in argument if certain people realize that there is a Desktop there and it functions just as fine as 7's.

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  2. #32


    Posts : 1,925
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    I have no idea what your point is. I did not suggest that a virtual machine is anything new. I'm saying that Microsoft is positioning windows to be platform agnostic, and Metro is the first step on that path.
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  3. #33


    Posts : 228
    Black Label 7x64


    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    if the start menu was that great, it would had seen more use. The reason why it was taken out was the because of the Windows 7 taskbar that eliminated half of the start menu's use.
    Nah, that wasn't the reason. Thurrott says:

    Microsoft has been furiously ripping out legacy code in Windows 8 that would have enabled third parties to bring back the Start button, Start Menu, and other software bits that could have made this new OS look and work like its predecessor.
    The reason it was taken out is because MS said to take it out. If they really cared about their users (or were even indifferent) they would have left it in. But they're apparently working overtime to make sure no one can put it back. That's a big slap in the face to a lot of people. If it's been so useless, why has there been so much howling about it being removed?

    You look at 8 with such a narrow perspective, which is - why doesn't everyone use it like I use it? This line of thinking is weird because at the same time you keep saying that not everyone is a power user, so why can't you see how great 8 is for us non-power users? It cuts both ways, Cokey, that's all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    See, a lot of problems wouldn't be in argument if certain people realize that there is a Desktop there and it functions just as fine as 7's.
    Yeah, we know. What's behind the principle complaints about 8 - the Metro part or the desktop part?
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  4. #34


    Posts : 454
    Windows 8.1 Pro with Media Center


    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel Travis View Post
    The reason it was taken out is because MS said to take it out. If they really cared about their users (or were even indifferent) they would have left it in. But they're apparently working overtime to make sure no one can put it back. That's a big slap in the face to a lot of people. If it's been so useless, why has there been so much howling about it being removed?
    By removing the Start Menu, Microsoft is also screwing people like me, who recognized in 1995 that the Start Menu sucks because it's hard to navigate and goes away when you choose something from it, forcing you to to do the navigation all over again. So I never used the Start Menu as the primary program launcher, and you'd think I wouldn't miss it. However, I do miss it, because I drag icons from it to my real program launcher, which used to be jetToolbar until Windows 7 introduced its very excellent taskbar, whose virtues I've extolled ad nauseum in earlier posts. I wanted to populate the taskbar with some icons in my Windows 8 VM just for testing, and I had to go looking in Explorer and the hidden AppData folders, where the Start menu folders (per user and all users) continue to live. Microsoft really has taken their Customer Contempt Policy to an entirely new level in Windows HE, which feels like someone throwing darts at me or something when I try to use it. And that's not even getting into all the Metro horror, which I've also written a lot about in earlier posts. The amount of fail in Windows HE really is hard to comprehend.
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  5. #35


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel Travis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    if the start menu was that great, it would had seen more use. The reason why it was taken out was the because of the Windows 7 taskbar that eliminated half of the start menu's use.
    Nah, that wasn't the reason. Thurrott says:

    Microsoft has been furiously ripping out legacy code in Windows 8 that would have enabled third parties to bring back the Start button, Start Menu, and other software bits that could have made this new OS look and work like its predecessor.
    The reason it was taken out is because MS said to take it out. If they really cared about their users (or were even indifferent) they would have left it in. But they're apparently working overtime to make sure no one can put it back. That's a big slap in the face to a lot of people. If it's been so useless, why has there been so much howling about it being removed?

    You look at 8 with such a narrow perspective, which is - why doesn't everyone use it like I use it? This line of thinking is weird because at the same time you keep saying that not everyone is a power user, so why can't you see how great 8 is for us non-power users? It cuts both ways, Cokey, that's all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    See, a lot of problems wouldn't be in argument if certain people realize that there is a Desktop there and it functions just as fine as 7's.
    Yeah, we know. What's behind the principle complaints about 8 - the Metro part or the desktop part?
    Microsoft is probably making sure the start menu can't be brought back because it would a slap to the face for them for users to do that. If that happened, I guess it would cause confusion in the consumer market that the start menu works on some people's systems if you do something. It would bring a lot of flack on their behalf. Not only that, a lot of work has gone into the Start Screen and to just turn it off would a real defeat. Sure, no start menu is a slap to the face for some, but the Start Screen is just a new navigational tool. It can act like the start menu, with library locations and Control Panel and other items you can customize if you need it.

    But setting that aside, I got back to my main argument. Everyday people don't use or care for the start menu. To me, if the company of the product has data proving such, that has more resonance than a forum member on a site where demographically a lot of tech heads which use desktops. It's like saying the guy at the local mechanic shop knows more about your car's engine than the company that designed, engineered, and built it.

    I get that it goes both ways, but I align myself closer to a power user than a common user. I like to tinker with new things and see how it works, and get the most out of something new. I've used 8 since the Developer Preview days and literally the first week of using it, I got the Start Screen configured to have items that the start menu had. The Consumer Preview allowed me to pin all seven of my Library locations, unlike the start menu. I've learned how to work it based on how I used to work with 7. So yeah, I find it a little incomprehensible when people say Windows 8 isn't for desktops when I've been using it on a desktop and it works better than the last OS which was 7. Remember Windows 7? Remember how people decried as vista 2.0 or a better working vista and said it will still be plagued and complained that the taskbar sucked because it was too big and didn't work how it did in vista? You don't hear that anymore because people have LEARNED how to use the polished UI to continue to work as they did in vista but easier. It's the same thing with 8, yes, the changes are a lot more significant than 7's, but in time, I bet many people will learn how to use and accept it and like it. Just like what happened with Office 2007's Ribbon UI, just like in xp's luna theme, and just like in Windows 95 where the last major overhaul of Windows was.
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  6. #36


    Posts : 299
    win 7 home premium 64 bit


    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post

    Microsoft is probably making sure the start menu can't be brought back because it would a slap to the face for them for users to do that.

    That makes perfect sense, punish the customer for THEIR lack of perception of what the cutomers actually wanted? LOL
    FAIL!

    Everyday people don't use or care for the start menu..
    I know PLENTY of "everyday" people that in fact DO use the start menu.

    The consultants were wrong.
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  7. #37


    Dual boot 7 ultimate and 8 RP - A lot of good comments and terrific thread on getting insights. I believe 8 is best of both worlds although it's taking time for me to learn. Metro to me is nothing but a big Start Menu where I believe one can organize it to ones taste and productivity. I can even save Metro IE favorites in the "Big Start Menu". Then I can switch to the desktop like I did in any other OS. MS is in the software business. It sells software, especially OSs. It has to keep up with hardware, especially touch. We all heard in the news that 8 was going to be designed for a lot of different applications and devices. So far as Metro apps, give it time. People are writing them as we forum. Time will tell.
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  8. #38


    Sydney Australia
    Posts : 14
    Windows 7 Home Premium x64


    I ran it for less than a day, the full screen interface was just too annoying.

    I didn't know what was open and what wasn't & the fact that there doesn't even seem to be an option to use a traditional desktop is unfair as it's forcing you to adapt when there's absolutely no need to.

    If MS insist on pushing this interface, they must include an option for a start menu or most serious PC users will keep using Win7.

    If you're on a tablet or only emailing/browsing then okay, I suppose you could live with Metro but what about the rest? I imagine the rest would come to a pretty large percentage of the windows market no?
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  9. #39


    Solo.
    Posts : 2,159
    Windows 10 Pro 64-bit


    Just little thought here to the OP.

    Why challenge.
    Creating, constructing, and innovating OS is definitely a matter science and technology work. Developer (MS) can use as much advanced tech as possible. They might squeeze all sophisticated things into it. But when it comes into consumer, it turns into needs, privileges, and preferences. When we say we don't like metro, we have every reason why. Others don't have right saying we are stupid or old fashioned guys that worth to be challenged. Every single thing that make our work done faster is appreciated, and, accepted. We work with hundreds interconnected machines in office network, how Metro UI would handle that? Or I haven't learned much I think.

    If in the future metro UI can do what desktop does. I will just say welcome aboard.

    Kevin
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  10. #40


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by Gustavius99 View Post
    Win8RP is just gorgeous. I have Win7 64 bit also installed, I go back and forth and old Win7 is really looking prehistoric now compared to the Win8 series. I really hope Microsoft doesn't drop Aero after RP, some of us like the eye candy, it makes our work a little more pleasant. Personally, I love the glass effects. I might keep RP until it expires if they make the final retail version all 2D and flat with no Aero.
    I find it's interesting that before vista and during vista, eye candy wasn't considered something of a reason to upgrade to a new OS. Now it is...
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I'm going to challenge all you Win8 haters...
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