Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums


I'm going to challenge all you Win8 haters...

  1. #11


    Face it. METRO is only a graphic menu. After selecting the program, particularly a "Metro" application, the various problems begin. Escaping, for a moment, from the home user, how on earth can office secretaries, having selected, say, Office, make any further use of Metro in order to type. How can Accountants or graphics engineers, have multiple Metro panes open on their screens.

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  2. #12


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    I've actually been doing that with the exception of Zune. I don't have Office 2010 installed as I don't need to use Office at the moment, but I still will be using the Desktop when Office 15 beta comes out later this month. But I also need to use Windows Explorer, but I'd say I'm in half and half of each interface. I think it works.
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  3. #13


    Posts : 228
    Black Label 7x64


    Quote Originally Posted by J4rrod View Post
    Give that a try. Do not even go into the Desktop.
    This is like telling a baseball player: try getting on base without using a bat. Tough? Yes. Impossible? No. OK, so what if you're a power hitter who makes his living with a big fat slugging % vs. OB%?

    A bunch of people hate Metro based on aesthetics, I am not denying that because I'm one of them. But if that were the only reason then you'd have a totally different, stronger argument. It's precisely because desktop users use desktops that 8 isn't appealing.

    FSeal nailed it earlier here, and even Paul Thurrott can see what's going on:

    Microsoft hasn’t made such an obviously consumer-centric version of Windows since Millennium Edition (Windows Me), and the question isn’t whether businesses will ignore this release, as they did Windows Vista. Of course they will. The question is whether Microsoft is (understandably) ignoring businesses with this release or if they’re being openly antagonistic to a market that, thus far, has been responsible for most of the software giant’s successes. Let’s hope it’s just the former.
    Let me know when there's an app that Pixar can use to make entire movies.
    Let me know when there's an app that will pay every business for every monitor upgrade to touch.
    Let me know when there's an app that extends your arm like Plastic Man so you can reach the screen.
    Let me know when there's an app that can publish a full-blown newspaper or magazine.
    Let me know when there's an app to keep track of the budget of a city or a company the size of Wal-Mart.
    Let me know when there's an app that will organize a multi-billion $ hedge fund.
    Let me know when there's an app to run every aspect of a recording studio.
    Let me know when there's an app that matches the benchmarks of Battlefield 3 on Ultra at 1920×1080.
    Let me know when there's an app that can water cool your machine for Battlefield 3 on Ultra at 1920×1080.
    Let me know when there's an app that can upgrade all your tablet components as easily as a desktop.
    Let me know when there's an app that can forecast thunderstorms.
    Let me know when there's an app that replaces a 2 TB hard drive.
    Let me know when there's an app that can replace an entire server farm.


    I mean, c'mon.....
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  4. #14


    Quote Originally Posted by davehc View Post
    Face it. METRO is only a graphic menu. After selecting the program, particularly a "Metro" application, the various problems begin. .
    Dave, you're making some valid points. Some of the aps just don't work well for me. But the news aps and the Wikipedia aps work fine, and so does the weather ap. I treat it as a program.
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  5. #15


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel Travis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by J4rrod View Post
    Give that a try. Do not even go into the Desktop.
    This is like telling a baseball player: try getting on base without using a bat. Tough? Yes. Impossible? No. OK, so what if you're a power hitter who makes his living with a big fat slugging % vs. OB%?

    A bunch of people hate Metro based on aesthetics, I am not denying that because I'm one of them. But if that were the only reason then you'd have a totally different, stronger argument. It's precisely because desktop users use desktops that 8 isn't appealing.

    FSeal nailed it earlier here, and even Paul Thurrott can see what's going on:

    Microsoft hasn’t made such an obviously consumer-centric version of Windows since Millennium Edition (Windows Me), and the question isn’t whether businesses will ignore this release, as they did Windows Vista. Of course they will. The question is whether Microsoft is (understandably) ignoring businesses with this release or if they’re being openly antagonistic to a market that, thus far, has been responsible for most of the software giant’s successes. Let’s hope it’s just the former.
    Let me know when there's an app that Pixar can use to make entire movies.
    Let me know when there's an app that will pay every business for every monitor upgrade to touch.
    Let me know when there's an app that extends your arm like Plastic Man so you can reach the screen.
    Let me know when there's an app that can publish a full-blown newspaper or magazine.
    Let me know when there's an app to keep track of the budget of a city or a company the size of Wal-Mart.
    Let me know when there's an app that will organize a multi-billion $ hedge fund.
    Let me know when there's an app to run every aspect of a recording studio.
    Let me know when there's an app that matches the benchmarks of Battlefield 3 on Ultra at 1920×1080.
    Let me know when there's an app that can water cool your machine for Battlefield 3 on Ultra at 1920×1080.
    Let me know when there's an app that can upgrade all your tablet components as easily as a desktop.
    Let me know when there's an app that can forecast thunderstorms.
    Let me know when there's an app that replaces a 2 TB hard drive.
    Let me know when there's an app that can replace an entire server farm.


    I mean, c'mon.....
    I know of that app that can do all that, the Desktop. Seriously though, I think the main point of Windows 8 is being lost here. It will cause serious changes. Windows 8 IS serious change. Do you really think in 10 years from now, the typical business is going to be using desktops anymore? I mean, a lot of places could easily swap out a desktop for a laptop if it were cost effective, and I bet some would choose a tablet option. Yes, the desktop will still be there for certain things a mobile device isn't cut out for. But for the vast majority of other devices, they will be mobile and many will be touch. I think 8 gets too much flack from desktop users basing their judgments on something that is being touted as a reimaged Windows for new PCs. History has already shown that change may suck initially, but gets developed upon until the next era of change. It's what happened when Windows 95 came out when Windows 3 was Microsoft's first commercial success. Many questioned it and many thought that using a mouse was superfluous compared to a keyboard. DOS was built for keyboard. 95 was designed to take advantage of the mouse. 8 takes advantage of the both along with touch and along with gesture.

    And another thing, this is a personal rant now, I find issue with desktop "power" users. NOT EVERYONE HAS A HIGH END PERFORMING DESKTOP WITH MULTIPLE MONITORS AND LATEST INTEL CHIPSET OR A HIGH RESOLTION MONITOR. If they did, we wouldn't be here talking about metro or Windows 8 and all that. Instead, we are here talking about what the modern day consumer of PCs is looking for: battery life, portability, and overall decent performance. And the software to run that is a version of Windows for new PCs, not just desktops.

    That is all.
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  6. #16


    Norwich, UK
    Posts : 85
    Windows 8 Pro


    The Start Menu is completely irrelevant to the issues I have with Metro.

    If Microsoft (or Linux or Apple for that matter) have a better idea than the Start Menu then great, I'm quite happy to hear it, the Start Menu is (and has been for many years) a bloated beast that's difficult to use. I just don't think that Metro is the answer.

    Again, unless I'm doing a bit of web browsing or checking my mail, then I invariably fall back to the Desktop. Now there are two main reasons for this, the first is that a lot of apps just aren't Metro compatible yet. This will undoubtably change when 8 is released.

    My bigger problem however is multitasking, if I try to use Meto, I am restricted to ONE Metro app. Why? because my primary monitor is 8 pixels short of what Microsoft feel is necessary to pin an app. Why I have no idea, as frankly Vista quite happily had a news feed in the side bar back when I had 1280*1024 screen size and at the moment Metro Apps are little more than that. Never mind the fact I have two screens, and can quite happily fit at least 4 apps across both screens (using Snap) on my regular desktop setup.

    So, I have a separate challenge for Microsoft: 1) rethink your screen size policys. Or 2) take into account multiple monitors, allow Metro across both, and let me snap more than 2 apps. Also let me decide the size of them. If you do that, then the lack of apps is not your fault, so we will see what happens.
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  7. #17


    Norwich, UK
    Posts : 85
    Windows 8 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot

    And another thing, this is a personal rant now, I find issue with desktop "power" users. NOT EVERYONE HAS A HIGH END PERFORMING DESKTOP WITH MULTIPLE MONITORS AND LATEST INTEL CHIPSET OR A HIGH RESOLTION MONITOR. If they did, we wouldn't be here talking about metro or Windows 8 and all that. Instead, we are here talking about what the modern day consumer of PCs is looking for: battery life, portability, and overall decent performance. And the software to run that is a version of Windows for new PCs, not just desktops.
    Then good luck running Metro.... Yes, not everyone has my setup. You are once again completely missing the point though!

    Lets take my girlfriends laptop as an example. She's just gone and bought a nice shiny brand new 10.1" laptop with a screen resolution of 1360*760, which (completely by fluke) we happened to buy on the first day of the Windows 8 upgrade offer, so it will be eligible for the upgrade. Guess what? Although she could run Metro, she can't pin apps. Often while writing (which is what this laptop is used for) she will have Wikipedia, dictionary.com, and office all open at the same time. As a minimum! This is assuming she isn't on MSN to her mum as well. She can only do one thing at a time, and multitasking is next to impossible, never mind comparing what she has written to what she is researching. To quote "Snap is the best thing that Microsoft have ever done."

    This is the consumer you are talking about, with one of the new form factors you are talking about. She doesn't have a desktop, she isn't a power user, she is Joe Average Consumer incarnate. Its crap on there too.
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  8. #18


    Posts : 228
    Black Label 7x64


    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    Seriously though, I think the main point of Windows 8 is being lost here. It will cause serious changes. Windows 8 IS serious change. Do you really think in 10 years from now, the typical business is going to be using desktops anymore?
    Yes, I think a lot will. Not as many, but in 3-4 years there will be 2 billion desktops in use! I've posted this before, but even though the rate of sales of PCs is slowing down, that doesn't mean their total use is slowing down. It's still going up. In 10 years you can't replace that much data, that much power, that soon with devices and Metro-ish apps. Try 50 years. Or more realistically, a century. It's got nothing to do with not wanting to migrate to different platforms - which is happening anyway - and everything to do with practicality.

    Heck, you may never see the desktop ever disappear completely. Human beings invented the boat thousands of years ago. Maybe 10,000-20,000 years ago. No one knows. People are still using boats. Why? It's such an old stupid technology, there are better things than boats like rockets. Oh wait - we've been using rockets since Genghis Khan.
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  9. #19


    Posts : 17
    Windows 7 64bit SP1


    Quote Originally Posted by severedsolo View Post
    ... the Start Menu is (and has been for many years) a bloated beast that's difficult to use. I just don't think that Metro is the answer ...
    I agree ... I've tried *not* to use it for years!! Therefore I'm not missing it much now in Win8 , but I completely understand why some people are!

    Whether the Metro screen will replace it we'll have to wait and see , I just wish people who disagree with whats going on would stop all the 'fanboy-ism' insulting that goes on , and just agree to disagree sometimes.
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  10. #20


    Hafnarfjörður IS
    Posts : 4,376
    Linux Centos 7, W8.1, W7, W2K3 Server W10


    Quote Originally Posted by J4rrod View Post
    I know the complaints all you haters have. I know you think that the Desktop isn't prominent enough. I know you want a Start menu on the Desktop. I'm aware of all of this.

    In fact, up until yesterday, while I loved Windows 8 RP, it did feel a bit awkward going from Desktop to Metro all the time, so I know where y'all are coming from. Then, I had a thought: why do I have to use the Desktop?

    So here's what I did...

    I refrained from using the Desktop whatsoever in this preview. I just simply do not use it anymore, and yes I'm on a regular, non-touch Sony VAIO.

    Give that a try. Do not even go into the Desktop. Do this for like, a day at least. Picture it as an ASUS Transformer type of thing; your keyboard and mouse you're using is the dock to the tablet which is your monitor. Use the Metro IE, use Metro apps, etc. to get your stuff done. I'm telling you, I have a new outlook on this OS.

    If you do this, let me know your thoughts.
    Hi there
    please tell me then what you would have to do to translate a document without having the original side by side with your new one or comparing the prices of articles found on 2 or more different websites without showing them simultaneously. I often have to translate Dutch into Icelandic and English for power point presentations.

    And that's just for starters.

    cheers
    jimbo
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