Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums


Let's have a massive discussion about Windows 8

  1. #1


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro

    Let's have a massive discussion about Windows 8


    I want to rehash something that is going to be rehashed as the Release Preview of Windows 8 comes out probably tomorrow: the Start Menu.

    Ok, from a good chunk of people here and some critics, the lack of a start menu is a big deal and to some, believe it's a catastrophe. I personally would like to know why. Maybe it's that I've been rocking Windows 8 since the Developer Preview last fall and have gotten acquainted very well it doesn't bother me. Honestly, I think to desktop power users, it's a big deal because that's what has been used for a decade and some. But really, think about the common consumer of a Windows device. Many people I've come across don't really care for the start menu. A few people have told me that they honestly don't ever use it since all their main items are pinned to the Taskbar (that sucked to find out because I organized the crap out of their start menu). A few have told me that they think Windows vista, even 7, just feels old. And the large rest I've seen use Windows, have installed Windows on their PCs; I feel like I can gather that the lack of a start menu won't be a huge loss to them. As long as something is accessible, it's fine. And yes, the Start Screen is accessible, you just configure it to do so.

    Then there's the Desktop UI issue. Some say it's an abortion of the UI, and without the Start Screen Windows 8 is just a faster 7 with a Ribbon UI. This may be true, but what did people say about Windows 7 when it came out, or vista for that matter? People said that 7 was like vista, but it worked. People said vista was just a warmed over version of xp with performance issues. To wrap this thought up, the Desktop is still there and works as it should with a new interface to navigate around files and programs.

    And then there's the metro concept people don't like or understand. The concept of metro design is minimalism, it's about content and not UI. Sure, some think it doesn't look nice, but that's because in the year of 2006,7ish when vista came out, Microsoft took a different road with the UI and made it the centerpiece when theoretically it wasn't supposed to be. Shucks! If you look at the Windows Longhorn concept from 2002, it looks more like the new Desktop UI of Windows 8! A transparent Taskbar with solid windows and a true chromeless approach. This was 2002 design here. Things would had been much different if that was the road we took if things panned out right. Metro design takes a bit to get used to because we're so used to UI fluff, it's ridiculous. We have gotten to the point where smartphones have more visual fluff than our desktop operating systems! Really?!

    And then there is the touch aspect of Windows 8 people don't care to recognize. Again, touch is the future, just like the mouse was the future years ago. Microsoft pioneered in the use of the mouse, and the rest followed into history. Now, they are going to pioneer in touch and the New User Interface of the Kinect. And as history has shown, the rest will follow because unlike apple, Microsoft has more clout about changing tech standards. apple may have wanted Flash to die and use HTML5, but the HTML5 talk didn't seem to happen until IE9 came into being, maybe google chrome had some impact as well.

    All in all, Windows 8 has changed a lot about how we use a User Interface, and will soon change how we interact with a PC.

    Now, let's have a huge discussion!

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  2. #2


    Norway
    Posts : 29
    Windows 7 Ultimate x64 and Windows 8 Enterprise N x64


    the lack of a start menu is a big deal and to some, believe it's a catastrophe.
    There is no lack of a start menu
    It's right there, but with a new design, called Metro

    I personally would like to know why.
    Me too, I haven't seen any problems with the new start menu at all. I use it in the same way as with the old start menu for the most of the time, the rest of the time it is very usefull to have a such easy to use start menu, nice big icons, easy to fin what you want and not have to find your why in tiny folders.



    All in all, I totally agree with everything you have written
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  3. #3


    Touch is not the future for desktops. For mobile sure, but I don't give a hoot about mobile. Touch on a desktop, cmon.

    I could easily do without the start button, but I would much prefer to do without that silly metro screen. kids stuff, nothing more.
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  4. #4


    Adelaide
    Posts : 1,338
    Windows 7 Ultimate SP1 (64 bit), Linux Mint 17.1 MATE (64 bit)

    As long as the future doesn't include ...


    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    Ok, from a good chunk of people here and some critics, the lack of a start menu is a big deal and to some, believe it's a catastrophe. I personally would like to know why.
    You don't want to "know why".

    It's been explained to you (by dozens of people on multiple threads) and you simply ignore what they have said and then say that you don't understand.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    Again, touch is the future, just like the mouse was the future years ago.


    Touch is the future, as long as the future doesn't include:

    • Creating spreadsheets.
    • Creating databases.
    • CAD programs.
    • Typing up giant reports, novels, etc..
    • VMs.
    • Editing audio, images and video.
    • etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    Microsoft pioneered in the use of the mouse, and the rest followed into history.
    Apple was responsible for exposing large numbers of consumers to the mouse.
    "However, the mouse remained relatively obscure until the 1984 appearance of the Apple Macintosh, which included an updated version of the original Lisa Mouse."


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  5. #5


    Posts : 5,360
    7/8/ubuntu/Linux Deepin


    Many people I've come across don't really care for the start menu. A few people have told me that they honestly don't ever use it since all their main items are pinned to the Taskbar (that sucked to find out because I organized the crap out of their start menu). A few have told me that they think Windows vista, even 7, just feels old. And the large rest I've seen use Windows, have installed Windows on their PCs; I feel like I can gather that the lack of a start menu won't be a huge loss to them.
    Really?

    The answers you get depend on how you ask the question.


    My experience is the exact opposite.

    I do not personally know a single person who says anything in that paragraph.


    I have to agree with Lehnerus, there is no point in trying to explain anything to you - you just ignore it.

    You have made up your mind and nothing will make any difference.

    That's fine - you are entitled to think what you want.

    There is no point in continuing to try and persuade everyone else that they are wrong.
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  6. #6


    Posts : 288
    Windows 7 Ultimate, Windows Developer Preview, Linux Mint 9


    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    And then there's the metro concept people don't like or understand. The concept of metro design is minimalism, it's about content and not UI. Sure, some think it doesn't look nice, but that's because in the year of 2006,7ish when vista came out, Microsoft took a different road with the UI and made it the centerpiece when theoretically it wasn't supposed to be. Shucks! If you look at the Windows Longhorn concept from 2002, it looks more like the new Desktop UI of Windows 8! A transparent Taskbar with solid windows and a true chromeless approach. This was 2002 design here. Things would had been much different if that was the road we took if things panned out right. Metro design takes a bit to get used to because we're so used to UI fluff, it's ridiculous. We have gotten to the point where smartphones have more visual fluff than our desktop operating systems! Really?!
    I and many other people don't really like how Microsoft approached "minimalism" on the Metro because it basically minimized a program's usability such as the fact that it reduced easy navigation if you are using mice and keyboards and look at these Metro apps, they are flat, have less to display inside than legacy apps, without window controls, cannot be resized, always fullscreen that's not really convenient to use on a Desktop and I keep saying that on multiple discussions along with the many other reasons that I would protest against the design of Windows 8. And with these Metro apps which are cloud based, M$ wants to mine more cash from users. I don't really like the cloud and I'd rather hold the data on my own machine so a cloud based OS that's constantly mining for subscription fees seems like a nightmare.

    How can smartphones have more visual fluff than a desktop with a screen 20 times bigger than that of a smartphone? You could cram more of it on a Desktop with a much larger screen that has more powerful hardware that you can not fit on a smartphone or tablet and what's more, on a Desktop you can have several of these visual fluff running side by side or you could just switch between them through the Taskbar. You would argue that smartphones and tablets are getting more powerful hardware but their screen don't become much bigger. Desktops become more and more powerful too.
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  7. #7


    Orbiting the Moon
    Posts : 2,975
    Windows 10 x64


    Quote Originally Posted by lehnerus2000 View Post

    Touch is the future, as long as the future doesn't include:

    • Creating spreadsheets.
    • Creating databases.
    • CAD programs.
    • Typing up giant reports, novels, etc..
    • VMs.
    • Editing audio, images and video.
    • etc.
    Yes indeed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vertex View Post

    I and many other people don't really like how Microsoft approached "minimalism" on the Metro because it basically minimized a program's usability such as the fact that it reduced easy navigation if you are using mice and keyboards and look at these Metro apps, they are flat, have less to display inside than legacy apps, without window controls, cannot be resized, always fullscreen that's not really convenient to use on a Desktop and I keep saying that on multiple discussions along with the many other reasons that I would protest against the design of Windows 8. And with these Metro apps which are cloud based, M$ wants to mine more cash from users. I don't really like the cloud and I'd rather hold the data on my own machine so a cloud based OS that's constantly mining for subscription fees seems like a nightmare.

    How can smartphones have more visual fluff than a desktop with a screen 20 times bigger than that of a smartphone? You could cram more of it on a Desktop with a much larger screen that has more powerful hardware that you can not fit on a smartphone or tablet and what's more, on a Desktop you can have several of these visual fluff running side by side or you could just switch between them through the Taskbar. You would argue that smartphones and tablets are getting more powerful hardware but their screen don't become much bigger. Desktops become more and more powerful too.
    Yes. To replace the mouse is unthinkable for desktops: if it will happen, it will probably take a few decades.

    Screen size of a desktop matters, of course. The Metro UI feels odd on desktop monitors, most of them are no touchscreens (touch ui is useless here).

    The mouse has been around for decades and was improved many times. Program interfaces were changed along to match a good workflow. The touch screen or UI has a long way to go:
    we would need CAD and spreadsheet programs that need, let's say, unthinkable interfaces for the moment.

    So I also keep my keyboard and mouse as they are practically unbeatable.
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  8. #8


    Posts : 57
    Windows 8 X64 Bit


    WOAHHH what a new update but when is it coming and what are we getting
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  9. #9


    What I like about Win8 is the availability of choice, users who prefer Metro can use it in their mobiles, for the rest the normal desktop is just a click away.
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  10. #10


    New Jersey
    Posts : 3
    Dual Boot : Win 8 and Win 7


    After reading all the doom and gloom over the past few months regarding Windows 8 I decided to see what all the fuss was about and downloaded the CP 2 days ago and installed it on seperate SSD I had lying around. At first I agreed with the nay sayers. My opinion quickly changed, however. Here is my experience:


    Day 1 Evening

    1. Installation went smooth and fast.
    2. Upon first boot I went through the personalization proccess. Didn't care for the obvious "mobile" appearance of the screens but kept an open mind.
    3. First time logging into the PC after the initial set up was a bit confusing. I didn't like it. I was beginning to agree with all of the nay sayers. It was getting late so I shut it down and went to bed. The shutdown proccess needs some work. Took me a while to finally find out how.



    Day 2

    1. I booted up the PC and went to the desktop. Started exploring.
    2. I learned within a few minutes that although the start button itself was graphically removed, its function still exists in the lower left corner of the screen. However, instead of a small pop-up menu that needs to be expanded level by level as you navigate for an item, you get a full screen menu with a more interactive GUI. This was the key realization that started to change my mind.
    3. I learned within the next few minutes that the upper left corner of the screen resulted in a list of all open applications. Basically an alt-tab without having to actually press alt-tab.
    4. I decided to stick with it for a few weeks began downloading and installing my standard applications to see what will run and what won't.



    I am now on day 3 and actually liking Windows 8. I am navigating much faster than I ever did in previous versions of Windows now that I've changed the way I look at the metro screen (an enhanced start menu). There are some bugs but that is expected when installing any beta software. As others have mentioned in various threads in various forums, there will be a learning curve. You will have to re-learn alot of stuff. Afterall, change is rarely easy. It is usually hard and frustrating but neccesary in an ever evolving technological world.

    I have come to the realization that the vast majority of the complaints/concerns regarding Windows 8 I have seen across the web have one thing in common at the core. The fear of change. It's as simple as that. You can rationalize it any way you want but at the end of the day it is simply the fear of change.

    The biggest problem I see right now is there is little to nothing explaining the changes to the end user. I had to figure out the basics of navigating via the "poke and hope" process. Miscrosoft will NEED to do something to provide thorough explanation to the end user once Windows 8 is released.
    Last edited by Digital Analogy; 31 May 2012 at 17:42.
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Let's have a massive discussion about Windows 8
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