Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums


A Possible Disaster With Windows 8

  1. #1


    Posts : 1
    Windows 8 Consumer Preview Build 8250

    A Possible Disaster With Windows 8


    I have been a Windows user for over 20 yrs now starting with Windows 3.11 up to the current version Windows 7. I have seen many versions of Microsoft Windows over the yrs and I have seen it evolve into one of the greasest operating systems with the exception of Windows ME and Vista which were both disasters.

    While I understand Microsoft’s thinking and wanting to improve their operating system and wanting it to evolve into something far greater than it’s previous versions I believe that if Microsoft doesn’t stop and listen to its customers or consumers Windows 8 may end up being Microsoft’s downfall or disaster.

    I say this for 2 reasons when Microsoft was pressured and rushed to put out Windows Vista because they took too long between operating system and with the pressure of the media and the consumer Microsoft ended up releasing Vista before it was ready and in the end Vista became a Microsoft nightmare. I say this because I worked for a computer shop and while I worked there many customers would come into the shop demanding their money back and asking that XP be reinstalled on their computers. This was not only a nightmare for the computer shop but for the customer and Microsoft as well.

    I understand Tablets and Touchscreens are the wave of the future and I understand that technology is also advancing far beyond any human understanding and so must Microsoft Windows if Microsoft is to keep up with technology and Windows 8 is their answer to staying ahead of technology. But my greatest fear is Microsoft is in the business of making money not losing it and it is my fear that if they don’t take the time to listen to the customer/consumer and what they want they may end up losing money on Windows 8.

    Since the days of Windows 95 Windows users have been used to a desktop and a start menu and a start button but Windows 8 Metro UI is a big drastic change from previous versions of Windows instead of booting into a desktop it boots into a Start Menu which can be very confusing to those of us who are older than dirt. I myself found it very confusing and not liking the interface/layout while I understand Microsoft thinking they are going to end up confusing a lot of their customers/consumers with this new interface/layout Take case in point I wanted to install some software today but before I did I wanted to create a System Restore Point. I couldn’t find System Restore in the Search or in the Start Menu. I had to do a Google Search before I was able to find it. I even tried finding it in Windows 8 form. Now if I couldn’t find it how do you think other people like myself are going to feel when they can’t find something they are looking for they’re not going to be to happy about it.

    Personally I believe there is room for compromise not only for the customer/consumer but for Microsoft as well. When people moved from Windows 98 to XP Microsoft created Windows 98 classic mode in Windows XP for those who found the new look/interface confusing and I believe the same thing can be done with Windows 8 providing Microsoft takes the time to listen to the customer/consumer but if they don’t I believe it will come back to bite them in the rear or come back to haunt them like Vista did. Windows 8 is a great idea and is the wave of the future for Tablets and Touchscreens but it will be some time before most of us will transition over to that type of technology. In the mean time Microsoft needs to keep Laptop/Desktop users in mind as well. If they do everyone wins all around and if they don’t Microsoft may find themselves losing not only their shirts but money as well because the customer/consumer won’t buy something they don’t know how to use or understand.

    I implore Microsoft to please take the time to listen to their customer/consumers because if they don’t it could be disastrous.

    One last thing inclosing and I learned this from my father when I Graduated from High School and went to work for him which was The Customer Is Always Right Even When They’re Wrong They’re Aways Right. Words of Wisdom when running a Business.
    Last edited by Mark Ammons 170; 13 May 2012 at 14:45.

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  2. #2


    Posts : 1,353
    Windows 8 Pro/Windows 8 Pro/Windows 7 64 Bit64Bit/Windows XP


    If Microsoft listened to its customers, we'd still be using DOS.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  3. #3


    Posts : 288
    Windows 7 Ultimate, Windows Developer Preview, Linux Mint 9


    Quote Originally Posted by BillWindows View Post
    If Microsoft listened to its customers, we'd still be using DOS.
    I understand, you love Windows 8 and you would seem to defend it no matter how bad and disastrous other consumers would see it but that was sarcastic of you!
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  4. #4


    I agree on some points like the fact that they should give us options. However I don't think removing the start button is exactly horrible if they found a suitable solution or replacement upon removing it. However, they haven't. It just looks and works the same except that you have to work harder around the fact that the start button is used. You always have to advance or try to and I truly believe they are trying to do that. However, they are not doing it in a good way. This is so slow. It's how they are interpreting the change that is the problem. It doesn't feel different aside from the fact that we are greeted with a metro start screen and that we have no option of just loading into the desktop.

    It's even worse when you actually start using the desktop and they have not incorporated the metro design into the desktop. They have not made things easier to use. With 7 I found they did make things much easier for the user. Vista was a problem but they were were waiting too long and taking to long to develop something. The product in the end wasn't even much of a change and it took them 4-5 years. If they had created a better product and sooner XP wouldn't be what people would stick to.

    The problem with windows 8 is that it doesn't offer anything new for desktop users and the incorporation of the metro design is sparse and badly done. It just feels like another skin with minimal changes at least for desktop users. On the tablet side it offers a much better tablet interface than the old windows tablet but in the end the metro start screen is a clunky, messy flat design. The tiles take up more space but don't necessarily provide anything more useful than the average icon. Upon using the apps there is nothing exciting. Windows 7 provided much needed improvements since XP and those features were long overdue. The superbar is easily one of the best new features and should have came with XP or there should have been an update to XP with this feature. It made launching programs much easier. The quick-launch gave us small icons that for me were hard to see and in minimized into an smaller space and was just overall not as useful.
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  5. #5


    Posts : 1,353
    Windows 8 Pro/Windows 8 Pro/Windows 7 64 Bit64Bit/Windows XP


    [QUOTE]I understand, you love Windows 8 and you would seem to defend it no matter how bad and disastrous other consumers would see it but that was sarcastic of you!/QUOTE]
    Maybe, maybe not, I don't know if you were around when Windows came out, but there were a lot of people against it. Also look at the commotion over Vista and ME, I never had any problems with ME, and Vista was a bit heavy on older systems but you could tweak it to run well. Funnily enough I had a lot of problems with Windows 98.
    Also I don't see Apple asking their customers what they want, with them, it's my way or the highway. I don't know if I love Windows 8' it's an operating system that I don't mind, and I can see the possibilities for Microsoft.
    Maybe I should stay off the net every time Microsoft comes out with a new version and not listen to all the commotion. Anyway, I hope Microsoft makes everybody happy, but they'd have to close down( sarcasm).
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  6. #6


    Pasadena, CA
    Posts : 9
    Windows 8 CP 8250


    Let's start with a dose of reality here...
    When it comes to Windows cusotmers, you're getting the full gamut, from tech savvy, quick-as-lighnting, knows-everything, can-do-all whiz-kid types who know where the MS-DOS bodies are buried guru, to the "I wish all the Metro UI Start tiles could be the same color" newbie... and EVERYTHING in between...

    So be it.

    Almost to a person, the general population has overlooked a whole slew of "Why does Microsoft WANT Metro...?" reasons.
    Let's try these on for size...

    You have almost no control surfaces to worry about.. no buttons, bars, drop-down menus, Help files, Easter Eggs, MDI windows, etc to deal with. At least 40% of the coding effort goes to designing those elements, TRANSLATING those elements, attaching "onmouseover", "onmoouse", "onclick", "onexit", etc events which just suck up RAM and leave every step of the way open to mischief and laziness.

    Even if a designer/programmer wants to use those lements, Metro allows for hooks for all traditional Windows program elements to be available if need. Other than contextual menu items, there will be little need though...

    Next, let's look at all the desktop elements that are in dire need of deprecation:

    screen savers... GONE
    gif anything for displaying, or clicking, etc.... GONE [BTW, all the talk about how pretty Mac OS X looks, and they still haven't implemented all the aspects of what the Quartz API was supposed to do, 12 years on in...]
    Microsoft users confused..? Shock!
    Doom and Gloom.... uh huh... don't think so...

    Next, how about the "This is going to be another Vista debacle! Run for the hills!"...

    Really? Has anyone actually bothered to see just how much more mileage one gets out of the same RAM, GPU and so forth from their PCs versus whatever VISTA did? Really?

    Okay. Just take the results, by the numbers. How many program windows can "you" (insert self in for testing purposes only) open and keep running without Windws Whatever-You-Have-Now choking on RAM and disk write-oout requests? 10? 20? 30? More?

    Windows 8 on a 16GB PC can chew through 40 open programs, including several ADOBE CS6 apps running simultaneously alongside all of Office 2010 at the same time. Windows Vista? Really? XP? Really? Windows 7... maybe, kinda, maybe...

    This is where paying attention to details is like having the rubber meet the road. Microsoft MSDN developer site made a concerted effort back in.... October '11 of stating the base reasons for why Windows 8 was a completely different OS animal. The core difference comes down to "asynchronous RAM access/allocation". Windows 8 can forcibly keep programs from stumbling over each other's memory requests, disk I/O and cache paging.... meaning? Your chances of getting screwed because of a page file fault (usually meaning BSOD) are WAY, WAY, WAY down - almost zero. What!? Surely you jest? My PC crashed playinig WOW, I couldn't print to my HP deskjet and for some strange reason, SmartSuite 2000 looks... weird....

    IBM strongly suggests switching to Symphony 3.x... Next!

    What really KILLS me, the sheer magnitude of what gets overlooked in all this talk, is just how much is missed in all the chatter. All this doom-and-gloom, Chicken Little hand wringing reminds me of Apple when they announced that they were switching to INTEL CPUs in 2006-ish territory. Other than Microsoft, no other name was more reviled by the Mac faithful than INTEL. Loathed, deplored, despised. From 1999~2006, IBM and Motorola led the battle. And then, Steve Jobs gets on the stage and announces that INTEL is the new Big Dog. The crowd gasps. Drinks are spilled. Astonishment, surprise, add-whatever-adjective-comes-to-mind-here ______. Then, sometime later in the same presentation, Steve J. says "We've had internal INTEL builds of OS X since version 10.0"

    And there you have it. Learn to like it, because we're not changing back.

    The same goes for Metro UI. Expect it everywhere. Expect it for many, many years to come. Learn it. You'll need it more than it needs you.
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  7. #7


    Posts : 288
    Windows 7 Ultimate, Windows Developer Preview, Linux Mint 9


    [QUOTE=BillWindows;89476]
    I understand, you love Windows 8 and you would seem to defend it no matter how bad and disastrous other consumers would see it but that was sarcastic of you!/QUOTE]
    Maybe, maybe not, I don't know if you were around when Windows came out, but there were a lot of people against it. Also look at the commotion over Vista and ME, I never had any problems with ME, and Vista was a bit heavy on older systems but you could tweak it to run well. Funnily enough I had a lot of problems with Windows 98.
    Also I don't see Apple asking their customers what they want, with them, it's my way or the highway. I don't know if I love Windows 8' it's an operating system that I don't mind, and I can see the possibilities for Microsoft.
    Maybe I should stay off the net every time Microsoft comes out with a new version and not listen to all the commotion. Anyway, I hope Microsoft makes everybody happy, but they'd have to close down( sarcasm).
    You do understand that the way things are right now are different than the DOS days. Of course, Windows 95 was generally easier than using disks or punchcards to boot an operating system but that's not the problem nowadays. M$ basically made wrong decisions in tweaking their UI by incorporating a tablet interface into a desktop which is a different thing for many people, especially those who are less computer literate. By selling those Metro apps, they wanted people to move to the cloud for paid subscriptions. They also slashed native DVD playback from Windows Media Player and they would ask for more $ if you wanted Windows Media Center packages with the DVD playback when there are lots of FREE alternatives to either of these programs. Of course I have more reason to complain. A few years back they would say that Windows was "my idea" but that's not the way things turned out right now.
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  8. #8


    Pasadena, CA
    Posts : 9
    Windows 8 CP 8250

    Disasters? Change More Like...


    You are going to need to change the paradigm for being a PC user. It's not about, click, click, click, drag, click, type, save, close...

    It's about, "What can we do better? What can we learn do to better?"

    I'd love to hear just how many folks thought switching to Windows 95 from 3.x, or from XP to Windows 7 was a "burden"...

    And then let's call in the experts for a discussion of how GDI.exe made all of our lives so much more.....

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  9. #9


    Posts : 1,851
    8250 x86 + 7 SP1 x86 + Ubuntu 12.04 LTS x86


    Quote Originally Posted by ZenZenPup View Post
    Your chances of getting screwed because of a page file fault (usually meaning BSOD) are WAY, WAY, WAY down - almost zero.
    Not really. Out of tens of thousands of dumps, I've only ever seen this a handful of times anyhow. It's usually caused by faulty physical storage and version of OS will not affect that.

    Welcome to the site!
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  10. #10


    Pasadena, CA
    Posts : 9
    Windows 8 CP 8250


    [QUOTE=Vertex;89486]
    Quote Originally Posted by BillWindows View Post
    I understand, you love Windows 8 and you would seem to defend it no matter how bad and disastrous other consumers would see it but that was sarcastic of you!/QUOTE]
    Maybe, maybe not, I don't know if you were around when Windows came out, but there were a lot of people against it. Also look at the commotion over Vista and ME, I never had any problems with ME, and Vista was a bit heavy on older systems but you could tweak it to run well. Funnily enough I had a lot of problems with Windows 98.
    Also I don't see Apple asking their customers what they want, with them, it's my way or the highway. I don't know if I love Windows 8' it's an operating system that I don't mind, and I can see the possibilities for Microsoft.
    Maybe I should stay off the net every time Microsoft comes out with a new version and not listen to all the commotion. Anyway, I hope Microsoft makes everybody happy, but they'd have to close down( sarcasm).
    You do understand that the way things are right now are different than the DOS days. Of course, Windows 95 was generally easier than using disks or punchcards to boot an operating system but that's not the problem nowadays. M$ basically made wrong decisions in tweaking their UI by incorporating a tablet interface into a desktop which is a different thing for many people, especially those who are less computer literate. By selling those Metro apps, they wanted people to move to the cloud for paid subscriptions. They also slashed native DVD playback from Windows Media Player and they would ask for more $ if you wanted Windows Media Center packages with the DVD playback when there are lots of FREE alternatives to either of these programs. Of course I have more reason to complain. A few years back they would say that Windows was "my idea" but that's not the way things turned out right now.
    Lord, so what if they changed the $$$ paradigm? Like buying DVDs is an improvement? Sure... all those $15.00 DVDs that get scratched and damaged just by spinning them in their jewel cases. No.

    2TB hard drives and a 4.7GB DVD is worth what for playing content, as compared to digital files? Better quality? MPEG-2 is barely watchable on any HD display. H.264 is accepted everywhere... massively better codecs...scalable... smaller file sizes... cloud backup access for $30/year...

    I used to spit all over Microsoft Windows PCs. I hated them. But now, this attitude of thigns going to hell in a handbasket is not lining up with the facts on hand. So what if it requires some learning. Tough. We all need to learn.

    In 1994, I flew up to Redmund for a temp job interview I knew I wasn't going to get. I spoke with 4 different team guys. All of them were so earnest and seemingly "knowledgeable". But the last one was the one that soured me completely. She was tasked with makikng sure the 32K memory ceilings for GDI.exe and USER.exe were not exceeded. She had the little file copying dialog up and running.. like it was some kiind of "feature". All that money and no one could see just how useless that piece of crap really was when GDI.exe and USER.exe were overtaxed just by holding down the alt-tab keys to see what was running... you could crash Windows 95 just by doing that too often between restarts.

    BUT WAIT! Outlook 2010 still uses the same copy/move animation MDI dialog box since the XP/VISTA debacle... CAN I call it that...?

    Now, it's true that Windows Frig has not made much headway... granted
    Nor has UNIX services on Windows... pity
    Last edited by ZenZenPup; 13 May 2012 at 01:14.
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