Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums


This will be Microsofts biggest ever flop, far bigger than Vista.

  1. #851


    Posts : 738
    1st W10 Professional x64/W7 Ultimate x64 - 2nd Remote system: W10 Insider Builds/W7 Professional


    Guess again! It can't do "everything" 7 can do! wrong! With every new version of Windows there's always something you start losing!

    First off if 8 is to be some much more media focused why are they stripping out Media Center and dvd playback out of WMP? They are cutting things included in Windows out in order to "sell them" separately! The MC is the first example right off on that.

    As far as the consumer market MS is looking at portable only with 8! Tablet PC works for Tablet PC not your desktop. With Vista that was go between from XP to 7 where you saw the Aero themes and sidebar introduced still offering the Classic theme as cytherian pointed out. 7 won't be the go between Vista and 8 however! 8 is in a totally different ball park to begin as far as the gui.

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  2. #852


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by Night Hawk View Post
    Guess again! It can't do "everything" 7 can do! wrong! With every new version of Windows there's always something you start losing!

    First off if 8 is to be some much more media focused why are they stripping out Media Center and dvd playback out of WMP? They are cutting things included in Windows out in order to "sell them" separately! The MC is the first example right off on that.

    As far as the consumer market MS is looking at portable only with 8! Tablet PC works for Tablet PC not your desktop. With Vista that was go between from XP to 7 where you saw the Aero themes and sidebar introduced still offering the Classic theme as cytherian pointed out. 7 won't be the go between Vista and 8 however! 8 is in a totally different ball park to begin as far as the gui.
    If DVD playback is so important, than why do ultrabooks and slates and tablets not have then even though they could? It makes better sense to put that in a version of Windows for people that DO use it versus people that don't. It makes business sense to do so since it COSTS Microsoft to license that feature that isn't used. Speaking of not being used, Media Center has been found to be only used by a few percentage points of Windows 7 users. Again, a feature that could die off, or be morphed out by something else, so it makes better business sense to have that FEATURE in a version of Windows that has MORE features for people that need to use them versus a vast majority of users that don't.

    There comes a time where media usage changes, from analog to digital. Many people these days stream digital content, which is what 8 is built better for.

    It's not just the portables that 8 is focused on, but touch in general. Touch is a feature that has become commonplace in many devices people use, but not the Windows PC.

    8 is definitely different GUI wise, but so is the comparison of 7 and xp, 8 is just more extreme.

    By the way, what's something that any version of Windows 8 can't do that 7 can? Just out of curiosity...
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  3. #853


    Posts : 738
    1st W10 Professional x64/W7 Ultimate x64 - 2nd Remote system: W10 Insider Builds/W7 Professional


    For a start a lot gamers won't be happy to find out that their older DX9 titles that require DX 9 elements won't run on 8! At least with 7 despite DX 11 you could still install 9 along with it and the old stuff will run. Then of course 8 being a newer not so compatible as the 7 from Vista move is not able to run many other things that run on 7 without some newer version coming out.

    The change from XP to Vista was also a leap while Vista and 7 stayed much closer compatibility wise. There are a number of things if you look close enough that run on Vista and generally will work on 7 but not 8! But this is also the expected outlook when going from any version to one newer.

    As far as Tablet PC no one would expect any optical there or with a netbook. Plus Tablet PC has always been a totally "separate" edition from what goes on any laptop or desktop to begin with. Why would anyone want Tablet PC gui on a desktop pc when they would expect a newer desktop OS to have a desktop gui to begin with?

    As for the Media Center that was one thing added into on the 2005 XP MC edition and simply carried on with Vista and 7. WMP on the other hand has been around since 95! WMP 10 finally saw additional codecs included rather then the need to go and buy separate codecs online. Now MS is eliminating the ability for playback entirely? not just removing codecs!

    That's another "why?" to add to the list which will make many wonder why bother?! Most will simply look at 8 and think MS is "off in the clouds somewhere" not paying attention to the desktop user!

    Generally whenever MS make a major change in the OS it usually takes a few versions to get things worked out. That was seen with 3.1 to 95. 98SE however was the Legacy winner! Likewise following the leap from XP to Vista 7 topped all! And we now wait for 9? 10? 11? to fill in the void between 7 and...
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  4. #854


    Posts : 93
    W2K8S R2 STD, W7 ULTIMATE X64


    Hi,

    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Night Hawk View Post
    Guess again! It can't do "everything" 7 can do! wrong! With every new version of Windows there's always something you start losing!

    First off if 8 is to be some much more media focused why are they stripping out Media Center and dvd playback out of WMP? They are cutting things included in Windows out in order to "sell them" separately! The MC is the first example right off on that.

    As far as the consumer market MS is looking at portable only with 8!
    Tablet PC works for Tablet PC not your desktop. With Vista that was go between from XP to 7 where you saw the Aero themes and sidebar introduced still offering the Classic theme as cytherian pointed out. 7 won't be the go between Vista and 8 however! 8 is in a totally different ball park to begin as far as the gui.
    If DVD playback is so important, than why do ultrabooks and slates and tablets not have then even though they could? It makes better sense to put that in a version of Windows for people that DO use it versus people that don't. It makes business sense to do so since it COSTS Microsoft to license that feature that isn't used. Speaking of not being used, Media Center has been found to be only used by a few percentage points of Windows 7 users. Again, a feature that could die off, or be morphed out by something else, so it makes better business sense to have that FEATURE in a version of Windows that has MORE features for people that need to use them versus a vast majority of users that don't.

    There comes a time where media usage changes, from analog to digital. Many people these days stream digital content, which is what 8 is built better for.

    It's not just the portables that 8 is focused on, but touch in general. Touch is a feature that has become commonplace in many devices people use, but not the Windows PC.

    8 is definitely different GUI wise, but so is the comparison of 7 and xp, 8 is just more extreme.

    By the way, what's something that any version of Windows 8 can't do that 7 can? Just out of curiosity...

    So are you saying we all should not have installed it on our desktop machines?

    Re Mediacenter, you could be right but then that's probably true for quite a few things that came and went with various iterations of Windows. My guess is that it wasn't used much because there was better stuff out there. Probably for free as well.
    Strange though how MS has put a lot of effort into the server end of mediacenter to now find themselves without (their own) client ends to actually do something with it.....

    All in all, if W8 is targeted at the tablet etc. stuff then why is it masquerading as the successor of W7?

    Mind you, I wouldn't mind having a desktop version of W8. It seems to do some things right......

    Cheers,
    Last edited by fdegrove; 15 Jun 2012 at 19:55.
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  5. #855


    Posts : 738
    1st W10 Professional x64/W7 Ultimate x64 - 2nd Remote system: W10 Insider Builds/W7 Professional


    I have the sneaky suspicion MS is holding off on just what will be seen once 8 is launched later this year. Of course with not only better free media players available they were also looking at things like Classic Shell and Start Menu 7 being available as well for any major gui change like this one.

    The Tablet editions of Windows have always been totally separate from the desktop OS in every other version. The smart move for MS would be to keep it that way by retaining at least the option for a standard gui present once 8 is out in retail form.
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  6. #856


    Earth - I wish I was on Risa
    Posts : 78
    Windows 7 Enterprise (x64), Windows 8 Enterprise (x64), Windows Server 2012


    Quote Originally Posted by PaulGo View Post
    5 things Microsoft doesn't want you to know

    ...Windows 7 is a solid, compelling upgrade over Windows XP.
    Windows XP support and security updates are drying up very soon. Many enterprises, knowing where they are in the Microsoft published support lifecycle, have Windows 7 hardware and software refresh programs underway. Having skipped Vista, these companies are standardizing on Windows 7, and they won't be in the market for another desktop upgrade for at least three to four years. ( Going from Windows XP to Windows 8 is not recommended.) Furthermore, few companies will consider hybrid deployments of Windows 7 and Windows 8, since that's a support nightmare. In short, enterprises will probably pass on Windows 8.
    There's very little compelling reason to upgrade to Windows 8 from Windows 7.

    ...you can't help but think that Microsoft faces myriad problems, ranging from too many cooks in the soup to driving individuality in the face of corporate control to simply lacking a grand plan other than "the cloud." Only time will tell if these problems can be solved-but the tea leaves are there for you to read.


    Full article at:

    5 things Microsoft doesn't want you to know | Cloud Computing - InfoWorld
    FYI:

    I have been upgrading companies of all sizes since the end of 2011 and now in 2012. All the corporate accounts I am working are going from Windows XP to Windows 7. There are NO plans to upgrade to Windows 8 by any of these companies. I have met with all CIO's and VP's and all agree that the price is too high, the learning curve is too high and Windows 7 is meeting their needs. All are looking at getting 7 to 10 years of life out of Windows 7 as they did with Windows XP. Even when the tablets have come up in meetings no one wants a Windows 8 tablet because the iPads or Androids are working perfectly. In many cases we have also replaced the iPads because the Androids are so much cheaper and upgrade better. The apps are better and can be tweaked quickly and easily. So most of these upgrades are Windows XP to Windows 7 and iPads and others to Androids. -WS
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  7. #857


    Hafnarfjörður IS
    Posts : 4,376
    Linux Centos 7, W8.1, W7, W2K3 Server W10


    Hi there
    the company I'm currently on assignment with is just upgrading as well to W7 -- no plans whatsoever to go to W8 -- some older PC's here are even still running W2000 although most are on XP.

    All desktops will be gone shortly --everybody whether internal or external is given a company laptop (quite a decent one too --WITH SSD's !!) and the whole network is Wireless based -- forget hideous kilometres of cable etc. The wireless response seems more than adequate as well.

    The company is quite happy also for Ipads / tablets to be connected -- although apart from the connection users are expected to "find their own support" with one exception -- they will help with getting email accounts to work on tablets / smart phones.

    It seems inconceviable for me to understand why Ms is bothering with an Enterprise version of W8 -- from what is taking place here and in countless other businesses W8 will never be seen inside them. I believe even MS itself is telling companies -- forget about W8 just upgrade to W7.

    If these companies get say an expected 5 - 7 years use out of W7 then something later will have appeared by then much more suited to a workplace -=- Windows 9 (or even 10 maybe).

    I believe there was a post somewhere calling Windows 7 the New XP -- seems a sensible remark.

    And BTW "Desktop" computing is NOT declining -- NEVER EVER believe what Gartner's say. "Desktops" themselves might be diminishing -- niche product for DIY hobbyists, extreme gamers, etc but laptops are continuing in popularity. People still like tablets / Ipads but a lot realize that you STILL need a "proper" computer to perform typical office like tasks or even to watch movies you've saved to an external device.


    When I'm travelling a small ACER aspire 1 netbook with an SSD and 4 GB RAM supplies all I need -- EXCEL / OFFICE, Multi-media etc with the ability to connect to a small USB device.

    With a 32 GB micro SDHC card in my phone it's a perfect combination. Load a couple of ISO's from the micro sd card in the phone to play DVD's on the laptop (I don't really like watching video on phones -- even an Iphone screen is too small to comfortably watch a full length movie -- it's OK for a few seconds of video from You Tube or whatever) and I don't even need toi carry an external HDD any more -- although they are so small that a 1TB drive is always useful.

    A Tablet to me seems a 100% waste of money if you already have a smart phone and a small laptop.

    I can't really use an e-reader either so I find using an audio book much better (can store zillions of these on a phone as well). So another possible tablet application is of no use to me and products like Kindle are just going to pass me by I'm afraid. I still like "printed" material but am very happy with Audio books too -- there's a HUGE selection of these too.

    (The ONLY app I've ever paid for on a phone is WINAMP PRO -- cost 2.75 EUR -- allows me to play music from FOLDERS and also plays FLAC so in combination with a decent set of Bose Cans -- great quality -- excellent on a long flight and "Baby/ Kid Proof" too --shuts out the external sound !!. I play all my audio books from the phone --simply copy the file(s) from a computer - usb drive to a directory on the micro sdhc card --no need for tagging --arranging by albums etc etc. The 2.75 EUR was worth EVERY Cent -- since most phone music apps are generally useless -- and this plays FLAC as well -- I like a lot of classical music too -- doesn't sound great in compressed mp3 format).

    I don't actually mind W8 on MY OWN laptop customized with the Power shell start menu etc and removed 99% of tyhe metro tiles.

    Lacking the Language interface Icelandic on W8 -- W7 is fine !!. Probably will stay with W7 although the speed and cleanliness of W8 apart from the Metro junk is appealing.

    I quite like the start up picture before you get the logon screen too.

    Cheers
    jimbo
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  8. #858


    Posts : 1
    Windows 7/8


    Okay, I just HAD to register, so much misinformation in a single post.

    Quote Originally Posted by Night Hawk View Post
    For a start a lot gamers won't be happy to find out that their older DX9 titles that require DX 9 elements won't run on 8! At least with 7 despite DX 11 you could still install 9 along with it and the old stuff will run. Then of course 8 being a newer not so compatible as the 7 from Vista move is not able to run many other things that run on 7 without some newer version coming out.

    The change from XP to Vista was also a leap while Vista and 7 stayed much closer compatibility wise. There are a number of things if you look close enough that run on Vista and generally will work on 7 but not 8! But this is also the expected outlook when going from any version to one newer.

    As far as Tablet PC no one would expect any optical there or with a netbook. Plus Tablet PC has always been a totally "separate" edition from what goes on any laptop or desktop to begin with. Why would anyone want Tablet PC gui on a desktop pc when they would expect a newer desktop OS to have a desktop gui to begin with?

    As for the Media Center that was one thing added into on the 2005 XP MC edition and simply carried on with Vista and 7. WMP on the other hand has been around since 95! WMP 10 finally saw additional codecs included rather then the need to go and buy separate codecs online. Now MS is eliminating the ability for playback entirely? not just removing codecs!

    That's another "why?" to add to the list which will make many wonder why bother?! Most will simply look at 8 and think MS is "off in the clouds somewhere" not paying attention to the desktop user!

    Generally whenever MS make a major change in the OS it usually takes a few versions to get things worked out. That was seen with 3.1 to 95. 98SE however was the Legacy winner! Likewise following the leap from XP to Vista 7 topped all! And we now wait for 9? 10? 11? to fill in the void between 7 and...
    Did you actually TRY Windows 8? Cause it doesn't seem like it.

    DirectX 9. Where did you hear that DX9 (or older) games wouldn't work? Cause mine all work fine. In fact, games like Diablo 1/2 and Starcraft work fine without any work arounds that were needed in Vista/7.

    Compatibility, both with software and drivers. Haven't read of any significant issue with any software, save for a bug in Skype. Drivers? If they work on Vista/7, they'll work on 8. My old B/G wireless card works fine with the drivers that came on the CD. Had no issue installing W7 drivers for my older system, either.

    Both Nvidia and AMD have been supporting CP and RP with beta drivers and there's very few issues so far, save for one specific game I've heard of (Max Payne 3).


    Tablet UI? Eh? Click on the desktop tile and you've got your regular ol' Windows desktop. The start screen takes up the entire screen, yeah, but when you go in your start menu, you can't do anything else ANYWAY.
    Do you just sit there with your start menu open while looking at a Youtube video or whatever? I doubt it.
    Pin your most used apps on the taskbar and pin the rest on the start screen and that's it.
    You're not required to use Metro Apps. It's not the most elegant way of doing things, but it works.

    Media Center... Eh, never seen anyone use it, most people just download VLC anyways. And WMP is staying, unless you're talking about Windows RT, which is for ARM based tablets, in which case they have the Music and Video apps to fill the void.

    Oh and btw, paying for codecs? Really? Who does that. There's plenty of ways to watch any and every video file imagineable. VLC and MPC-HC being very easy ways to go about it.



    And I wouldn't call Windows 8 a major change. The only real difference is the start screen, which works more or less the same way as the start menu, except it's fullscreen and you can have pretty tiles that show random info like new mails, weather, news and stuff.
    There's lots of behind the scenes improvements, but they're hardly a major change, either. At least IMO.
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  9. #859


    Hafnarfjörður IS
    Posts : 4,376
    Linux Centos 7, W8.1, W7, W2K3 Server W10


    Hi there
    not sure who you are referring to here but Nighthawks's posts are usually pretty accurate and mine -- hopefully too.

    Running a dsktop OS where you NEED to do "Office" like applications is a TOTALLY different ballgame to the casual user just wanting to surf the net / play around witn facebook etc.


    Cheers
    jimbo
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  10. #860


    Posts : 1,320
    Server 2012 / 8.0


    I do not understand why the desktop tile is such a problem.
    This is the 8 forum, I guess.
    (all apps can be removed from start page)

    Clicking the desktop tile (less than 1 second) and the office desktop is there.
    Pressing the Winkey or mouse gesture to bottom left to launch something ...

    Is this a difficult task?

    p.s. I am not trying to convince.
    Simply do not understand where the difficulty is.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

This will be Microsofts biggest ever flop, far bigger than Vista.
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