Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums


This will be Microsofts biggest ever flop, far bigger than Vista.

  1. #371


    Posts : 228
    Black Label 7x64


    Coke, what you and a bunch of Metro lovers don't seem to get is that not everyone uses Windows the same. I know you think you know this, but you and others can't fully grasp that people don't always see it your way. For example, you write:

    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    When faced with a new screen of icons of which can be arranged simply and easily and can be used to quickly access items, complaints roar from everywhere.


    That's great you think that, but I don't subscribe to anything you put down right there. I see Metro like this:

    1.) A screen full of crap in my way.

    2.) Said crap cannot be arranged like I want them to be. I have to arrange them how MS allows me to and I'm not a fan of that. I don't like big boxy tiles. Sorry, just don't. MS is embracing a concept it spent 20 years fleeing? I'm sure it will be easy to change the icons in the tiles, but I doubt it will be as easy to finagle the tiles completely or get rid of them, or order your icons in ways other than cascading rows, etc.

    When I turn on my computer I don't want a full-sized start screen in my face. I like virtually nothing on my screen. That's why I like the start button, because it's compact and piles all the junk I use out of the way. That's why I like the task bar because it has my most frequently used programs pinned about as out of the way as you can get. I like stuff tidy. Why? So I can see my wallpaper
    photo. Why? So my machine doesn't scream at me - YOU ARE USING TECHNOLOGY! As much as I love it, I don't need to be reminded of it every nanosecond. I like to be in full control of the tools I use, not the other way around.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    But the thing that gets me is that people complain about the Start Screen because they say the mouse is useless or ineffective for it. How?!

    Who is saying this? Maybe people are, I have no clue. My chief complaints with the mouse in Metro:

    1.) Horizontal scrolling. That's so counter-intuitive on a desktop. It really is. People have been using the up/down middle mouse scroll wheel forever because it works, because people read more efficiently when the top-to-bottom ratio is larger than the left-to-right one. It's been like that since human beings started reading and writing. I hate having to scroll horizontally with a mouse setup. On the phone or tablet it's fine. Why? The reason is practical - the screens are tiny. Scrolling L-R on a desktop? Total PITA. I don't want the width to go past my monitor. If I did, I'd get two monitors. Some people use two monitors, some people actually need more than one. That's awesome. Most people use one. I know you don't have to scroll horizontally a lot in Metro, but it's enough to be annoying as hell.

    2.) The Start Menu packs as much information as Metro does, in a fraction of the space. I like that I don't have to roll my freaking mouse all over the screen to get stuff from the Start Menu. Maybe you and others don't prefer that method. But guess what? We're not alike. No, the Start Menu doesn't have live tiles. Whoopdy *bleeping* do.

    There is significant blowback against this 8 OS - heck, look at this site. This very thread has about twice as many replies and as many total views as the thread that announced the release of the 8 CP! I'm not saying 8 will be a flop. It may not be. All I'm saying is that a significant number of people are not happy with it, and the reasons are as valid as yours.




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  2. #372


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel Travis View Post
    Coke, what you and a bunch of Metro lovers don't seem to get is that not everyone uses Windows the same. I know you think you know this, but you and others can't fully grasp that people don't always see it your way. For example, you write:

    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    When faced with a new screen of icons of which can be arranged simply and easily and can be used to quickly access items, complaints roar from everywhere.


    That's great you think that, but I don't subscribe to anything you put down right there. I see Metro like this:

    1.) A screen full of crap in my way.

    2.) Said crap cannot be arranged like I want them to be. I have to arrange them how MS allows me to and I'm not a fan of that. I don't like big boxy tiles. Sorry, just don't. MS is embracing a concept it spent 20 years fleeing? I'm sure it will be easy to change the icons in the tiles, but I doubt it will be as easy to finagle the tiles completely or get rid of them, or order your icons in ways other than cascading rows, etc.

    When I turn on my computer I don't want a full-sized start screen in my face. I like virtually nothing on my screen. That's why I like the start button, because it's compact and piles all the junk I use out of the way. That's why I like the task bar because it has my most frequently used programs pinned about as out of the way as you can get. I like stuff tidy. Why? So I can see my wallpaper
    photo. Why? So my machine doesn't scream at me - YOU ARE USING TECHNOLOGY! As much as I love it, I don't need to be reminded of it every nanosecond. I like to be in full control of the tools I use, not the other way around.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    But the thing that gets me is that people complain about the Start Screen because they say the mouse is useless or ineffective for it. How?!

    Who is saying this? Maybe people are, I have no clue. My chief complaints with the mouse in Metro:

    1.) Horizontal scrolling. That's so counter-intuitive on a desktop. It really is. People have been using the up/down middle mouse scroll wheel forever because it works, because people read more efficiently when the top-to-bottom ratio is larger than the left-to-right one. It's been like that since human beings started reading and writing. I hate having to scroll horizontally with a mouse setup. On the phone or tablet it's fine. Why? The reason is practical - the screens are tiny. Scrolling L-R on a desktop? Total PITA. I don't want the width to go past my monitor. If I did, I'd get two monitors. Some people use two monitors, some people actually need more than one. That's awesome. Most people use one. I know you don't have to scroll horizontally a lot in Metro, but it's enough to be annoying as hell.

    2.) The Start Menu packs as much information as Metro does, in a fraction of the space. I like that I don't have to roll my freaking mouse all over the screen to get stuff from the Start Menu. Maybe you and others don't prefer that method. But guess what? We're not alike. No, the Start Menu doesn't have live tiles. Whoopdy *bleeping* do.

    There is significant blowback against this 8 OS - heck, look at this site. This very thread has about twice as many replies and as many total views as the thread that announced the release of the 8 CP! I'm not saying 8 will be a flop. It may not be. All I'm saying is that a significant number of people are not happy with it, and the reasons are as valid as yours.



    I realize people don't use Windows the same way, but people need to actually know HOW to use Windows to know how to use Windows their own way. Like, the Start Menu should be used to have your MFU programs and a neat list of non-frequently used programs in the All Programs list, not folder upon folder upon folder of a mess. There is a reason why Microsoft decided on a Start Screen so people can ACTUALLY get rid of their crap, and not let it bloat up one way or another. As for tiles not being arranged the way you want them to, you don't want them organized in groups that go left or right? This part I don't get fully.

    People, notably "power users", have been saying that the mouse and keyboard are useless and ineffective on the Start Screen because it somehow gives a notion that having a mouse, that is precise and accurate, on software that doesn't really require precision makes it useless and touch first only.

    People have been scrolling up and down because that's how it's always been. And people really don't read up and down, they read left to right or right to left depending on the language. The only reason why text ever went up to down is because there wasn't any room left so the logical thing to do was to shift the text a line under. Then, the GUI made up and down scrolling. To me, there really isn't a difficulty, scrolling is scrolling. It's a panorama. I don't have difficulty with it, but that's just me.

    Well, this site is mostly composed of power users, people that go for practicality and power versus design and adaptation. Many on this site wouldn't care for eye candy of Aero design, some might have disabled that. There are some that even make Windows 7 look like elder versions of Windows. There are some that have command prompt pinned on their start menu or Start Screen. There are some that even tweak Windows' settings as to gain more performance. If left to the devices of said power users, we'd still be using the classic design of Windows that Microsoft gladly left a good decade ago I'd bet.

    Then there are the rest of the Windows users, people that enjoy a pleasing, visual experience that works, that is smooth, and is easy to use and easy to work with. Take a look at this thread and you'll see people that just don't like Windows 8 because of reasons that they don't want Start Screen in their face or the Desktop already does all that. Then, take a look at some other threads and you'll see people posting their customized Start Screens and speaking of the best parts of it, notably Start Screen. Windows brings in a whole plethora of different users. And it seems a vast majority of the Windows crowd would fare well with Windows 8 based off personal experience. The rest might not because they don't want to see radical change. But then again, people are different.
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  3. #373


    Posts : 1,353
    Windows 8 Pro/Windows 8 Pro/Windows 7 64 Bit64Bit/Windows XP


    @ Colonel Travis

    "There is significant blowback against this 8 OS - heck, look at this site. This very thread has about twice as many replies and as many total views as the thread that announced the release of the 8 CP! I'm not saying 8 will be a flop. It may not be. All I'm saying is that a significant number of people are not happy with it, and the reasons are as valid as yours"

    I was at a very well known Windows website yesterday, the conversation was about Windows 8 and Metro. There was one guy on there battling for about two hours or more against a lot of Metro likers, he was outnumbered by at least 10 to 1. These people were all Developers and Programmers and such. Every now and then someone would join him against the hordes, but for ever one of the haters more lovers piled on, it was fascinating to watch and I was amazed at the numbers of developers who have no problem with Metro and Windows 8.

    There were also a lot of users, and they were also mainly in the liking camp. From what I've observed just about everywhere, its mainly the business community that seems to be having problems with it. The problem the way they see it is that office workers will not be able to learn this new way of doing things. They dont seem to give their staff much credit I believe, and I think thats wrong. I believe that with a minimum of fuss and just a short memo to staff, they will catch on just as quick as anybody else.

    The other thing is, if you leave your computer in sleep mode, you can just log straight back onto the desktop, and in much quicker time than Windows 7.

    I dont know if Windows 8 is going to be a success, but judging from what I've seen so far, I doubt it will be a flop.

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  4. #374


    Posts : 828
    Windows 7 x64 Ultimate/Windows 8.1/Linux


    Quote Originally Posted by BillWindows View Post
    @ Colonel Travis

    There were also a lot of users, and they were also mainly in the liking camp. From what I've observed just about everywhere, its mainly the business community that seems to be having problems with it. The problem the way they see it is that office workers will not be able to learn this new way of doing things. They dont seem to give their staff much credit I believe, and I think thats wrong. I believe that with a minimum of fuss and just a short memo to staff, they will catch on just as quick as anybody else.
    With all due respect, I would imagine you've never worked in IT, or had anything to do with large scale deployments of new operating systems or applications. Believe me, it doesn't matter how carefully you plan or how much training is given, a lot of users just will not 'get it'. With windows 8 we're talking a complete paradigm shift, so don't expect any but the most brave (or the most stupid) to start deploying Windows 8 any time soon.
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  5. #375


    Quote Originally Posted by Calico View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by BillWindows View Post
    @ Colonel Travis

    There were also a lot of users, and they were also mainly in the liking camp. From what I've observed just about everywhere, its mainly the business community that seems to be having problems with it. The problem the way they see it is that office workers will not be able to learn this new way of doing things. They dont seem to give their staff much credit I believe, and I think thats wrong. I believe that with a minimum of fuss and just a short memo to staff, they will catch on just as quick as anybody else.
    With all due respect, I would imagine you've never worked in IT, or had anything to do with large scale deployments of new operating systems or applications. Believe me, it doesn't matter how carefully you plan or how much training is given, a lot of users just will not 'get it'. With windows 8 we're talking a complete paradigm shift, so don't expect any but the most brave (or the most stupid) to start deploying Windows 8 any time soon.

    Here, here!

    With a couple of decades of Enterprise level experience I shudder at the thought.

    I personally like and use it but deploying it to more than 5000 users would be suicidal
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  6. #376


    Posts : 1,353
    Windows 8 Pro/Windows 8 Pro/Windows 7 64 Bit64Bit/Windows XP


    I agree I dont have any skills in IT or large scale deployment of operating systems, but I'm pretty sure Microsoft knows a bit about it and wont want to lose too much market share in that area.
    Maybe this is a real dumb move by Microsoft and they "just dont get it", but I'm sure they looked at this long and hard and have a plan for deployment for business, if not they might be in for a rough ride.
    One thing I do know, is that by the sound of it, businesses havent even upgraded to Windows 7 and are reluctant to do so, if that's the case, and its so tuff, maybe this change wont be so bad, considering its going to be hard anyway.
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  7. #377


    Posts : 828
    Windows 7 x64 Ultimate/Windows 8.1/Linux


    How real people will use Windows 8

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  8. #378


    Posts : 1,353
    Windows 8 Pro/Windows 8 Pro/Windows 7 64 Bit64Bit/Windows XP


    Thats one funny video, I'm not really into tech, how did you video yourself, and manage to upload it when you obviously had a very hard time with Windows 8, you must have caught on pretty quickly after all.
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  9. #379


    Posts : 1,851
    8250 x86 + 7 SP1 x86 + Ubuntu 12.04 LTS x86


    Haha that video is teh win. "They tryin' to drive me to MAC?"

    In seriousness though, that is a perfect sample representation of how it is going to be for a large percentage of folks.
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  10. #380


    Posts : 993
    Windows 8 pro Retail


    Did he EVER figure it out?
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

This will be Microsofts biggest ever flop, far bigger than Vista.
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