Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums


This will be Microsofts biggest ever flop, far bigger than Vista.

  1. #351


    Germany/Florida
    Posts : 4,514
    Vista and Win7


    Quote Originally Posted by Burgurne View Post
    If you look at your own brown picture, even you must be seeing the total waste of space that could be used for something more usefull things. 5 out of 6 tiles has a LOT of free spaces in them. Why do they then have to be so big? It is so ugly on a 24" monitor. I don't care for workarounds in Metro, the whole idea is, IMHO, just ugly and spacewaste, and does absolutely nothing for the "experince" of a desktop PC.
    Actually I am very happy that the tiles are big. I have a 20/60 vision and a hard time seeing anything. I chose the brown background because that gives me a bit of contrast so that I can (barely) read the text. I hope they improve the readability of those tiles. Writing in white would already help. Fortunately I am on a 22" screen. On my laptop I always have to use the magnifier even with a higher DPI setting.

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  2. #352


    Posts : 288
    Windows 7 Ultimate, Windows Developer Preview, Linux Mint 9


    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    So the idea of desktop operating system designs should be to have everything small and miniscule as to aim, target, and click on something?
    Not really but something that does not consume much space as Metro tiles and something that does not obscure your view of the Desktop (like the Metro Screen). In the Desktop, you could still choose whether you like small, medium or big icons by right clicking an empty spot on the Desktop then View, remember?
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  3. #353


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by tseven View Post
    Leaving out whether you like the metro start screen or not the problem becomes targeting everyone. Not everyone wants to work in the metro environment. Even taking away the fact that the tiles take up space and that it could be good for accuracy or it could be ugly, they just make it awkward for the average user. I mean you have to go into the metro while you are in the desktop? That just makes things awkward since the interface is so different looking. But it also takes away from users who don't want to be using metro such as business people since they won't be touching screens or people that want to use the desktop programs. What if they want to stay in one environment? They basically took away the option to choose because the start screen is forced on the user. The most important thing is it's not easy to use from the beginning. Users have to work around it. Which makes it not very user-friendly. On top of that desktop programs that are installed automatically get added to the metro start screen which is adding clutter since the programs on the metro start screen don't work in the metro environment and only in desktop adding to the confusion.

    I personally do think the tiles take up more space than necessary and I find it flat, boring, cluttered and confusing. But even putting those feelings aside and using the metro side I would not want that experience combined with my desktop. What's left with the desktop start menu is a hidden menu with the shortcuts. That is not user-friendly at all. And when you hover over the space where the start button used to be, you can get back to the metro start screen. That is just awkward. The fact that the user has to get it to work easier makes it obvious they need to work on their idea. It should be easy to use from the start.
    You seem to think that people that use the Start Screen spend five minutes trying to find something. It's not real awkward to transition into the Start Screen. It's like in Office 2010, there is no file or office menu, it's a File tab called Backstage view. It takes up most of the screen to give more information and details about the current file and gives you more options right up front with no more dialog boxes. It takes up the screen, but more can be found. That is what the Start Screen is, it takes up the whole screen, but more can be found and done. The Start Screen is different looking, but hopefully the Desktop view will have a metro design to it after all is said and done, which it probably will considering if you look at Windows Server 8.

    The start menu was once a feature that was heavily used and designed for that heavy use. In fact, most Windows versions up to xp, after login or startup, the start menu always popped up. That forced the user to use it. But you're not in two different environments, the Start Screen is basically the unmasked layer of the Desktop where ALL your executable programs and apps lie in. The Desktop is where you work with those programs. Also, if you look at the typical Windows 7 user's start menu, you might see a small, default start menu with the Most Frequently Used programs either pinned or on that list. But if you click or hover on All Programs, you see the default list of built in programs, then, you discover the biggest mess of folders and subfolders of installed programs, drivers, and manufacturers' utilities. The reason why it's such is because the average user doesn't deal with that clutter because they never see it. And thus, they never realize what all is installed on their PC without going to the Programs and Features list in Control Panel. The idea is if the average user sees more tiles than usual, or new or different ones, it gets their attention. They might actually use the programs and apps installed on the PC or discover ones they never knew were there, unlike the start menu.

    The fact that a user finds something so simple so difficult really makes it obvious that the user really needs to put a little more time into using the system, just saying....
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  4. #354


    Adelaide
    Posts : 1,338
    Windows 7 Ultimate SP1 (64 bit), Linux Mint 17.1 MATE (64 bit)

    Your words, not mine


    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    So the idea of desktop operating system designs should be to have everything small and miniscule as to aim, target, and click on something?
    What's wrong with ~48 x ~48 icons in the "Start Menu" and on the "Taskbar" ("Use large icons" setting)?
    I concede that, for some unknown reason, the icons remain tiny in "All Programs".

    The "Extra Large Icons" in Windows Explorer are ~256 x ~256 (actually larger when you include the text).

    Click image for larger version
    Last edited by lehnerus2000; 11 Mar 2012 at 07:13.
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  5. #355


    Posts : 5,360
    7/8/ubuntu/Linux Deepin


    It seems there is a misunderstanding here.


    I am not sure we are disagreeing.

    It appears that for those whose needs are simple - like my Dad - the folk at WHS computer club, and several people who post here - the metro UI is fine.

    All those who can do everything they want from a mobile phone ( they might use something else for printing ) - will be fine with it.


    It is for the second group - the people who need more than that - those of us who do "computer" things - not just "mobile phone" things - Metro is a hindrance.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  6. #356


    Posts : 1,308
    Windows 8 enterprise x64


    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    The fact that a user finds something so simple so difficult really makes it obvious that the user really needs to put a little more time into using the system, just saying....

    The problem with Windows 8; it’s a “goal oriented marketing “instead of a “Customers oriented marketing” Microsoft want to fix their tablet and phone market problem, they don’t want to give the OS their customers want, this is not acceptable, you may be the kind of person to buy everything someone tries to sell you, but I’m not.

    I just fire a Android 4.0 in VM, they don't use Huge Metro Tiles, they use regular icons, do we need live tiles, are those gadgets not doying the same thing ?




    Look , I can see the tool bar at right, why with Windows 8, I have to make some chirurgical move with the mouse to bring it on ? Also, I can slide the screen left and right with the mouse in Android VM



    Last edited by area 66; 11 Mar 2012 at 09:15.
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  7. #357


    Earth - I wish I was on Risa
    Posts : 78
    Windows 7 Enterprise (x64), Windows 8 Enterprise (x64), Windows Server 2012


    Quote Originally Posted by tseven View Post
    Leaving out whether you like the metro start screen or not the problem becomes targeting everyone. Not everyone wants to work in the metro environment. Even taking away the fact that the tiles take up space and that it could be good for accuracy or it could be ugly, they just make it awkward for the average user. I mean you have to go into the metro while you are in the desktop? That just makes things awkward since the interface is so different looking. But it also takes away from users who don't want to be using metro such as business people since they won't be touching screens or people that want to use the desktop programs. What if they want to stay in one environment? They basically took away the option to choose because the start screen is forced on the user. The most important thing is it's not easy to use from the beginning. Users have to work around it. Which makes it not very user-friendly. On top of that desktop programs that are installed automatically get added to the metro start screen which is adding clutter since the programs on the metro start screen don't work in the metro environment and only in desktop adding to the confusion.
    Again I think MS should make Metro UI an easy option to enable\disable with the disable giving you the option to have the ORB (start button) like Windows 7. They also need to make the Metro UI icons completely sizable/ movable, and let you control how they look and how many, spacing etc. This will give the best user experience for any computer combination. –WS
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  8. #358


    Denmark
    Posts : 224
    Windows 8.1 64bit Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by whs View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Burgurne View Post
    If you look at your own brown picture, even you must be seeing the total waste of space that could be used for something more usefull things. 5 out of 6 tiles has a LOT of free spaces in them. Why do they then have to be so big? It is so ugly on a 24" monitor. I don't care for workarounds in Metro, the whole idea is, IMHO, just ugly and spacewaste, and does absolutely nothing for the "experince" of a desktop PC.
    Actually I am very happy that the tiles are big. I have a 20/60 vision and a hard time seeing anything. I chose the brown background because that gives me a bit of contrast so that I can (barely) read the text. I hope they improve the readability of those tiles. Writing in white would already help. Fortunately I am on a 22" screen. On my laptop I always have to use the magnifier even with a higher DPI setting.
    I'm sorry for your poor vision, but why must all of us use large, ugly tiles because of that? In Windows 7 you can select the size if icons you want, even big ones as written in this thread, and on the same time we who want's small icons can select that. On metro we don't have that choise!
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  9. #359


    Germany/Florida
    Posts : 4,514
    Vista and Win7


    I agree. A size selection for the tiles would solve the problem for both of us. Maybe they give us that option in the RTM.
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  10. #360


    A Finnish ex-pat in Leipzig, Germany
    Posts : 1,452
    Windows 8.1 Pro with Media Center


    Just my 2 cents:

    I'm reading all these complaints about how difficult it is to find something, or how something works on Windows 8 CP. "I am an experienced Windows veteran since version XXX and I can not find this and can not do that", that seems to be a common nominator.

    OK. I am an experienced Windows user, since absolute beginning of Windows. When I first saw Win 8 CP it was clear it is so different than previous versions that even experienced users might need to consult manuals and other written instructions.

    I did so. And now I have absolutely no problems to navigate deeper and deeper on Win 8 CP, find what I need. The point is we should forget now the fact we are "experts" and start instead reading manuals. I know it's cool to brag that "only n00bs read manuals, I do not need them for I am a pro", but it's wrong attitude.

    Control Panel cannot be found:BS! Can not hibernate: BS! Can not change this or that: BS!

    Stop complaining. Read.

    - Windows 8 Consumer Preview
    - Windows 8 Consumer Preview Guide (pdf)

    Kari
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

This will be Microsofts biggest ever flop, far bigger than Vista.
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