Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums


This will be Microsofts biggest ever flop, far bigger than Vista.

  1. #341


    The thing that bugs me is not that there is a new start menu it's the fact that there is no menu in the desktop it just brings you into the touch screen menu. It's annoying to me not that the start screen exists but that the desktop doesn't have it's own start menu. I mean think about it the apps on the start screen are not all for the desktop and since the apps don't work on both environments having a menu that combines programs from two places makes it confusing and cluttered. On top of that the start screen takes up a lot of space horizontally especially. you basically have to scroll a while if you have a lot of stuff installed. Or I guess you could use the search but the search brings up the metro interface again which is jarring to me considering how the desktop still looks the same as windows 7. If they had updated the desktop interface maybe it would feel different but not at the moment.

    I just think it would be nice if there would be a start menu even if it's revamped for desktop so it doesn't just list everything when the programs aren't able to function in both places. That way it just lists the stuff that was made for the desktop. I mean what is the point of having programs listed that don't work in the desktop anyway it just makes things more difficult to navigate. I also find it weird that there is a tile instead of a specific button for desktop. The way how the start screen is organized and the fact that they are combining the environments make this something businesses wouldn't want to update to. If they made each environment work independent of each other unless you wanted to cross over then that would be the ultimate product that everyone can use.

    Also it's weird how on the bottom left corner you can get to the "quick link menu" aka the stuff you would get to on the windows 7 start menu like control panel etc. but you'll have the right click as when you hover over it you would just see a screenshot of the start screen instead normally. I personally think it's a bad idea because as a regular user that's just confusing and cluttering. Just giving us a better way to get to those old stuff would be much more useful making it much more obvious instead of hidden would be better as well. I mean a regular user who hovers on the bottom left corner would see the screenshot of the start screen and probably click it. I don't think it looks obvious to right-click that area to bring up another menu. They should either make it more obvious or make a better way to get to the control panel stuff easier. That hidden menu just seems cluttered in a corner and awkward to be placed in such a tight area.

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  2. #342


    Posts : 122
    Windows 8 64bit Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by mcnulty View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by whest View Post
    Well, you can just press ctrl & alt + del, and you have restart shutdown sleep & signout - he is only expressing his own impressions, and likes to tinker for mind. As for wrecking the desktop, with one touch of the windows logo on the keyboard to interchange, and the fact that the desktop is no different then before I fail to see your argument.
    There was no need at all to tinker before. Certainly no need at all to be messing with commands. And the desktop is still there, of course, but there is no way to claim that it's the same as it was before. Sure, some people will be happy with the workarounds and the compromises, I'm not. I don't see why the start menu has been replaced by an interface which makes sense only for tablets, nor do I understand why even when on the desktop I want to choose which application to use for a certain file type the dialog that I'm presented with is not a regular Windows dialog but a square Metro-meant-for-touch dialog. Ditto with notifications and all other kinds of stuff that insist on reminding me that I'm dealing with the desktop as an unusual kind of guest or legacy application inside a touch-designed operating system.

    So there is an argument to be made, even if you choose to dismiss it because you personally don't care about it.
    I agree with WSH - I love w7, hence w8 and use the taskbar for all the majors (taking advantage of the jump lists) and the desktop for rarely used programs etc. If you use the small view on the taskbar you can fit about 20 shortcuts -on a laptop (1366x768) - don't forget control panel ( jump lists also) and the number to pin can be extended to suit - also if you use microsoft office - add word and excel etc. as required, as they have jump lists also for recently opened docs etc. and just pin your favourites - I literally run everything from the taskbar - forgot windows explorer where you can pin your favourite folders/drives.
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  3. #343


    Posts : 288
    Windows 7 Ultimate, Windows Developer Preview, Linux Mint 9


    Quote Originally Posted by whs View Post

    What do you really do with the Start menu in Win7 - few people use it to start programs, but even if you do, the new start menu is just as good. And All Apps is certainly easier to use than All Programs. Search is the same. So where is the problem.
    You seem to be downsizing the use and significance of the old Start Menu. How sure are you that "few" people use it? Research done by MS does not prove statistics in the whole world. Heck, I still do a lot of things with it. I am one of the "few" people you claim who still use it to launch apps. The guys I work with still use it decently though. I also use it to search for documents and other things that doesnt have a shortcut yet, plus use it to access links to the Run Command, Devices and Printers, Recent Items plus links to My Pictures, Video,and Document libraries and finally use its easily visible Power button to shut down my PC. All of that and more in a single compact space that does not cover the whole screen so I can still see pretty much of what's going on my Desktop. And speaking of the "Devices and Printers" area in the old Start Menu, its so much better than the one you find somewhere in this Metro screen because you can actually do things with those devices by right clicking at them whereas in the Metro version of this devices section, you cannot. Searching for files in Windows 8 only brings up this Desktop-obscuring Metro thing again,

    This whole Start Screen that takes the WHOLE screen makes sense only to those dull Metro apps that only makes much sense on tablets that I have no or little use on my PC. So to me and many others, the new Metro screen is NOT as good as the old compactly-designed Start Menu. There have been workarounds, sure but still, there should be the option to still have the old Start Screen and Start button and this OS might just be the best M$ has ever done that would suit most people.
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  4. #344


    Germany/Florida
    Posts : 4,514
    Vista and Win7


    Well, I hear you. But it's not going to happen. We better get used to what they give us. And what you are missing is easy to add - e.g. Devices and Printers (see picture). The fact that Start takes the whole screen does not bother me - why would I want to save the space for a rainy day when I can put everything I need right there (including a lot of stuff that I cannot put into a Win7 Start menu).

    Click image for larger version
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  5. #345


    Denmark
    Posts : 224
    Windows 8.1 64bit Pro


    If you look at your own brown picture, even you must be seeing the total waste of space that could be used for something more usefull things. 5 out of 6 tiles has a LOT of free spaces in them. Why do they then have to be so big? It is so ugly on a 24" monitor. I don't care for workarounds in Metro, the whole idea is, IMHO, just ugly and spacewaste, and does absolutely nothing for the "experince" of a desktop PC.
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  6. #346


    Posts : 1,851
    8250 x86 + 7 SP1 x86 + Ubuntu 12.04 LTS x86


    Quote Originally Posted by Burgurne View Post
    If you look at your own brown picture, even you must be seeing the total waste of space that could be used for something more usefull things. 5 out of 6 tiles has a LOT of free spaces in them. Why do they then have to be so big? It is so ugly on a 24" monitor. I don't care for workarounds in Metro, the whole idea is, IMHO, just ugly and spacewaste, and does absolutely nothing for the "experince" of a desktop PC.
    The large size of the tiles allows for extremely fast clicking on to them without needed accuracy. The end result is enhanced speed because you can click like wild for something without being precise.

    I display that in the video here:

    https://www.eightforums.com/general-d...html#post72062
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  7. #347


    Adelaide
    Posts : 1,338
    Windows 7 Ultimate SP1 (64 bit), Linux Mint 17.1 MATE (64 bit)

    "Giant, club-like" fingers


    Quote Originally Posted by GMan View Post
    The large size of the tiles allows for extremely fast clicking on to them without needed accuracy. The end result is enhanced speed because you can click like wild for something without being precise.

    I display that in the video here:

    https://www.eightforums.com/general-d...html#post72062
    How often do you miss hitting something using the mouse?
    I find it only happens when I'm trying to position the insertion point, in a specific place, in a line of text.

    The Metro buttons are that big, so that people can hit them with their "giant, club-like" fingers (compared to the mouse pointer).
    Last edited by lehnerus2000; 11 Mar 2012 at 04:58. Reason: Spelling
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  8. #348


    Posts : 1,851
    8250 x86 + 7 SP1 x86 + Ubuntu 12.04 LTS x86


    True, you have a good point about the large fingers.

    My point though is that I would not be able to open apps from the Start Menu on 7 like the speed I showed how I did in 8.
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  9. #349


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by lehnerus2000 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by GMan View Post
    The large size of the tiles allows for extremely fast clicking on to them without needed accuracy. The end result is enhanced speed because you can click like wild for something without being precise.

    I display that in the video here:

    https://www.eightforums.com/general-d...html#post72062
    How often do you miss hitting something using the mouse?
    I find it only happens when I'm trying to position the insertion point, in a specific place, in a line of text.

    The Metro buttons are that big, so that people can hit hem with their "giant, club-like" fingers (compared to the mouse pointer).
    So the idea of desktop operating system designs should be to have everything small and miniscule as to aim, target, and click on something?
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  10. #350


    Leaving out whether you like the metro start screen or not the problem becomes targeting everyone. Not everyone wants to work in the metro environment. Even taking away the fact that the tiles take up space and that it could be good for accuracy or it could be ugly, they just make it awkward for the average user. I mean you have to go into the metro while you are in the desktop? That just makes things awkward since the interface is so different looking. But it also takes away from users who don't want to be using metro such as business people since they won't be touching screens or people that want to use the desktop programs. What if they want to stay in one environment? They basically took away the option to choose because the start screen is forced on the user. The most important thing is it's not easy to use from the beginning. Users have to work around it. Which makes it not very user-friendly. On top of that desktop programs that are installed automatically get added to the metro start screen which is adding clutter since the programs on the metro start screen don't work in the metro environment and only in desktop adding to the confusion.

    I personally do think the tiles take up more space than necessary and I find it flat, boring, cluttered and confusing. But even putting those feelings aside and using the metro side I would not want that experience combined with my desktop. What's left with the desktop start menu is a hidden menu with the shortcuts. That is not user-friendly at all. And when you hover over the space where the start button used to be, you can get back to the metro start screen. That is just awkward. The fact that the user has to get it to work easier makes it obvious they need to work on their idea. It should be easy to use from the start.
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This will be Microsofts biggest ever flop, far bigger than Vista.
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