Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums


This will be Microsofts biggest ever flop, far bigger than Vista.

  1. #1351


    Posts : 149
    Windows 7 Home Premium on 2 Windows 8.1 on 1


    I thought all the same things many did about Windows 8 when I started reading its reviews several months ago.

    I even bought a laptop last month to be sure it had Windows 7. Now that 8 is out I am not so sure my impressions were correct.

    Anyone ever heard of Andy Inhatko? He is a Tech writer for the Chicago Sun-Times. Pretty well respected. Here are some excerpts of his review of Windows 8:

    Windows 7 catered to an aging audience who valued the comfort of the familiar over the opportunities of modernization. Windows 8 shows Microsoftís determination to remain a relevant and important OS in 2015.

    Besides simple usability, The Land Of Tiles And Magic offers a second serious benefit: consistency across multiple classes of devices. When you move from your 27-inch office desktop to your 13-inch notebook and then to your iPad-like Surface tablet, itís all the same app with the same UI ó and Windows keeps your docs
    and settings synced between the three on its own.

    I can give Windows 8 an enthusiastic and unreserved recommendation. I donít think Iím even going too far to call it the most exciting step forward in desktop operating systems since Mac OS X 10.0.

    Itís a fresh look that shows an eagerness to progress beyond the familiar interface concepts that were considered hot stuff way back when Reagan was president. Windows 8 is gorgeous, but not at the expense of power.

    Now I am completely unsure if I should upgrade for $15, return my computer and buy one with Win 8, or do nothing. I know I want a tablet and would prefer an MS OS so doesn't it make sense to have my laptop be Win 8 too? My desktop will remain Windows 7 so will that cause problems with my network? So confused.

      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  2. #1352


    Posts : 5,360
    7/8/ubuntu/Linux Deepin


    He is missing the point.

    It is not about the little squares.

    It is about the direction MS is pushing the users.

    It is about taking away choice and control.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  3. #1353


    Posts : 6
    Windows 8


    Me too
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  4. #1354


    Posts : 80
    Windows 8 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by machare View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ivy8 View Post
    Why stick with 7? All I see are improvements that 8 gives you . . .
    Like no start button, no gadgets, no games, no Virtual PC (on 32 bit version), no rounded corners on windows, no media centre (after initial free offer.)
    Good points are faster start than W7, better handling of two screens if they are a different size, and more flexible PUL licence.
    Start button is irrelevant, virtual PC should be 64-bit to access lots of ram for your VM's, so irrelevant there, rounded corners is opinion and media centre is for a small niche, its not important for most - give XMBC a shot.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  5. #1355


    Adelaide
    Posts : 1,338
    Windows 7 Ultimate SP1 (64 bit), Linux Mint 17.1 MATE (64 bit)

    Agreed


    Quote Originally Posted by SIW2 View Post
    I can't understand why Microsoft is doing this?
    I am afraid it is worse than you think.

    It is an attempt to wrest control away from the user.

    Eventual aim is that users will have some simple thing they jab at - all else is in the cloud.

    Programs or "apps" will all have to be approved by MS - even now win8 is deliberately locked down to restrict choices.

    Unless the users reject this thing, in only a few years they will wonder how we got into this awful mess.
    IMO, you are correct.

    Corporations and Governments HATE the fact that they don't have total control over our PCs.
    They have to eliminate PCs and restore their status by forcing everything into the "Cloud", where they can exercise (almost) total control over information.

    It's a shocking indictment of contemporary society that they are being aided in their "Holy Quest", by "know-nothing" consumers pumping money into their coffers.

    Quote Originally Posted by ArJuna View Post
    Of course, I could never understand why some people believed Barack Obama either, or that some people are still believing him even though he spews nothing but provable lies and whose policies glaringly contradict everything he says he believes in. So I guess I can see how dumb people can be.
    If you think that voting Republican or Democrat will eliminate Windows 8, or affect any positive changes on MS (or other Corporations) you are living in "La-La land".
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  6. #1356


    Posts : 738
    1st W10 Professional x64/W7 Ultimate x64 - 2nd Remote system: W10 Insider Builds/W7 Professional


    Quote Originally Posted by ivy8 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by pparks1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ivy8 View Post
    The problem is that people just don't give it a chance. I have no problem with it, it took me less than 2hrs to work with it. That being said, I also spent the last three days going through some Win 8 books, but still. The UI for me is irrelevant. The kernel changes are way more important. Those on 7 don't know what they are missing out.
    What about those of us on windows 7, who have used Windows 8 pretty extensively from consumer preview to preview release, to RTM who have chosen to forgo Windows 8 and just stick with Windows 7? I know exactly what I am missing. To you, the UI is irrelevant, to somebody else it might be a much bigger deal.
    Why stick with 7? All I see are improvements that 8 gives you . . .
    Improvements in a new Lock Screen and likely faster boot up time. Disimprovements of dividing up Control Panel functions diversifying them between hidden toolbars and popup menus most will eventually find on their own while being stumped at first!

    Program compatibilty is a Numero Uno #1 complaint here where hardly anything works while the 32bit 7 saw the greated degree of backward compatibility being able to work with "XP" hardware and device drivers like try some for an old 128mb AGP video card and how about some old XP Realtek onboard sound drivers for a start on an old Socket A build with only one of two 512mb dimms working at first until reseating the DDR memory following a cleaning of the contacts.

    Dvd playboack support seen in WMP since WMP 10 came out. 9 was default in XP however. The Media Center made into a separate "you buy at Modern Apps store" item. An Android looking gui replaces the traditional desktop to compete with a fruit company and Googlitis. And the complaints go on and on and on and on.... as people who replaced OEM 7 preinstalls are now sweating how to get rid of 8 to get 7 back on again on their laptops!

    Quote Originally Posted by machare View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ivy8 View Post
    Why stick with 7? All I see are improvements that 8 gives you . . .
    Like no start button, no gadgets, no games, no Virtual PC (on 32 bit version), no rounded corners on windows, no media centre (after initial free offer.)

    Good points are faster start than W7, better handling of two screens if they are a different size, and more flexible PUL licence.
    Core refinements in any newer version would be expected to a certain degree as you saw security and stability improved greatly over XP when Vista came out. But the MS mistake of not specifying the "actual" minimum requirements for the larger version to allow OEMs to swindle past not equipping new machine with enough memory as well as a slightly faster cpu resulted in that one getting a bad rep until people got acquainted with it.

    So why is 8 so different? Just listen to the local 11pm nightly report mentioning the largest drastic change seen in the Windows OS in what 17yrs. time! Most are stunned at first sight. For those who have invested heavily in softwares desktop or pc games and are running into OpenGL and other DX 9 required problems DX 9 won't go on 8 while it would on both Vista and 7 32bit and 64bit flavors alike. The limited compatibility for many apps will force most to have buy all new wares unlike the outreach MS designed into 7 to get the XP crowd to move forward there.

    For the novice user relatively new at the Windows OS and history they will be thrilled at having the "new" running while the long time MS user who has grown accustomed to the conventional wisdom expressed in 7 over previous versions just had a big slap in the face as far as 8 is concerned and now may have to consider running another OS even to see a productive workstation once 7 is old and gone!

    Will 8 be the unique OS as far as the loss of the Start and Programs menus as well as soldified Control Panel where the user can find things or will it be the new trend to stuff the user into "CLOUD" isms?! You can rehash the same things back and forth but eventually some will and many other won't is what it comes down to.

    Simply getting past the Start screen for things like the Classic Shell or other isn't any big hurdle while the other things that separate 8 from all previous versions will be the back breaker for many. It's just that simple. The recommendation for anyone trying it now out of the box if not downloading the RP would be not replacing a working Vista or 7 install but seeing 8 go on as a stand alone OS to a totally separate drive rather then suddenly realizing they want the previous back after wiping it out for 8!

    No wonder I intentionally made sure there was a second OS drive when planning out the present or one of the present 7 builds that is to allow for ? Well I knew what would follow 7 would prove to be a hard sell once realizing 7 was a winning version for a change. The way MS went about trashing 8 to suit the mobile touchscreen crowd while sacrificing a working trend for the desktop they started with 7 however leaves one to wonder how long will 7 last! Will something better be seen in the next few versions to follow 8 since most are ready to skip over it entirely.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  7. #1357


    Posts : 3
    windows 8 consumer preview


    I downloaded the final version. I sorely miss the Start Menu. To treat a desktop or a laptop as a tablet is not the way to go forward. If they wanted to beat Apple in their game, they should have come out with something better. The Start page is for Tablet Users complete with tiny apps.

    It took a while to locate settings, control panel, how to map a network drive, etc. Good old Google to the rescue!!

    Yeah! I agree. It could turn out to be a flop. Soon as someone releases a decent Win 7 type start menu, I would get it.

    Hey Microsoft. A desktop is a desktop, do you hear? It is not a wimpy tablet !! There is a reason people buy desktops !!
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  8. #1358


    Posts : 30
    Windows 8


    After trying out Windows 8, IMO the lack of a start button is meaningless, however the Metro UI is terrible.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  9. #1359


    Posts : 80
    Windows 8 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by Night Hawk View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ivy8 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by pparks1 View Post

    What about those of us on windows 7, who have used Windows 8 pretty extensively from consumer preview to preview release, to RTM who have chosen to forgo Windows 8 and just stick with Windows 7? I know exactly what I am missing. To you, the UI is irrelevant, to somebody else it might be a much bigger deal.
    Why stick with 7? All I see are improvements that 8 gives you . . .
    Improvements in a new Lock Screen and likely faster boot up time. Disimprovements of dividing up Control Panel functions diversifying them between hidden toolbars and popup menus most will eventually find on their own while being stumped at first!

    Program compatibilty is a Numero Uno #1 complaint here where hardly anything works while the 32bit 7 saw the greated degree of backward compatibility being able to work with "XP" hardware and device drivers like try some for an old 128mb AGP video card and how about some old XP Realtek onboard sound drivers for a start on an old Socket A build with only one of two 512mb dimms working at first until reseating the DDR memory following a cleaning of the contacts.

    Dvd playboack support seen in WMP since WMP 10 came out. 9 was default in XP however. The Media Center made into a separate "you buy at Modern Apps store" item. An Android looking gui replaces the traditional desktop to compete with a fruit company and Googlitis. And the complaints go on and on and on and on.... as people who replaced OEM 7 preinstalls are now sweating how to get rid of 8 to get 7 back on again on their laptops!

    <snip>
    Wait - DDR memory? AGP cards? XP drivers? Chuck that old rubbish in the bin and get a new PC. A $50 G540 and a $70 B75 board is all the basis you need. Forget backward compatibility. Its 2012, not 2002.

    As for DVD playback, VLC or XMBC covers that. However, I do agree its utterly stupid for Microsoft to not include all playback options though. A Windows OS in 2012 should support every single standard codec (x264, aac, mp3, xvid etc) and container (.mkv, .mp4, .avi etc) along with BD and DVD playback in software that is both DXVA and Quicksync aware.

    The GUI I couldn't care less. I can work with it.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  10. #1360


    Posts : 738
    1st W10 Professional x64/W7 Ultimate x64 - 2nd Remote system: W10 Insider Builds/W7 Professional


    Quote Originally Posted by ivy8 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by pparks1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ivy8 View Post
    The problem is that people just don't give it a chance. I have no problem with it, it took me less than 2hrs to work with it. That being said, I also spent the last three days going through some Win 8 books, but still. The UI for me is irrelevant. The kernel changes are way more important. Those on 7 don't know what they are missing out.
    What about those of us on windows 7, who have used Windows 8 pretty extensively from consumer preview to preview release, to RTM who have chosen to forgo Windows 8 and just stick with Windows 7? I know exactly what I am missing. To you, the UI is irrelevant, to somebody else it might be a much bigger deal.
    Why stick with 7? All I see are improvements that 8 gives you . . .
    Quote Originally Posted by ivy8 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Night Hawk View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ivy8 View Post

    Why stick with 7? All I see are improvements that 8 gives you . . .
    Improvements in a new Lock Screen and likely faster boot up time. Disimprovements of dividing up Control Panel functions diversifying them between hidden toolbars and popup menus most will eventually find on their own while being stumped at first!

    Program compatibilty is a Numero Uno #1 complaint here where hardly anything works while the 32bit 7 saw the greated degree of backward compatibility being able to work with "XP" hardware and device drivers like try some for an old 128mb AGP video card and how about some old XP Realtek onboard sound drivers for a start on an old Socket A build with only one of two 512mb dimms working at first until reseating the DDR memory following a cleaning of the contacts.

    Dvd playboack support seen in WMP since WMP 10 came out. 9 was default in XP however. The Media Center made into a separate "you buy at Modern Apps store" item. An Android looking gui replaces the traditional desktop to compete with a fruit company and Googlitis. And the complaints go on and on and on and on.... as people who replaced OEM 7 preinstalls are now sweating how to get rid of 8 to get 7 back on again on their laptops!

    <snip>
    Wait - DDR memory? AGP cards? XP drivers? Chuck that old rubbish in the bin and get a new PC. A $50 G540 and a $70 B75 board is all the basis you need. Forget backward compatibility. Its 2012, not 2002.

    As for DVD playback, VLC or XMBC covers that. However, I do agree its utterly stupid for Microsoft to not include all playback options though. A Windows OS in 2012 should support every single standard codec (x264, aac, mp3, xvid etc) and container (.mkv, .mp4, .avi etc) along with BD and DVD playback in software that is both DXVA and Quicksync aware.

    The GUI I couldn't care less. I can work with it.
    You missed the point entirely! It's not whether or not 7 would run on an old build but the backward compatibility MS built into 7 not seen with Vista or 8. Even Vista saw a bit more then 8 does! In fact older games that would not even install on Vista would go right onto the 32bit 7 when initially looking at the beta builds. That was a pleasant surprise back in 2009! still having an XP/Vista dual boot I could later replace once the RCs were available.

    Someone pointed out MS was likely stripping codecs away with their excuse of there being too many dvd players out there to be bothered seeing it supported any longer in WMP. From there they wouldn't be paying out for the use of codecs in 8 where they could lower the price tags for each edition.

    The Media Center never ended being used here for any reason since I have to plug composite sources into a separate tuner card to begin with. In fact that same brand of tv tuner/captire card came out with a Media Center card of their own that won't accept analog composite input making the card useless while the built-in MC required a subscription service in order to use.

    VLC is great alternate to WMP since that will play vcd projects while some other players do not support that type of video format for some reason. I still keep WMP as the default player since it will easily playback video captures with a fast double click on any file. As far as media support however MS is looking to promote their new lineup of media apps in their online store and stripping away the things people have been expecting would be included bringing about another turnoff for the new version.

    The Start screen despite it often starting up first is in actuality a minor annoyance since you can easily add Classic Shell on and see that load automatically by right clicking on the Programs>Startup item and dragging a shortcut for the main exe into the folder just like you can for any number of other small apps. For the Control Panel creating and pinning shortcut if needed to the taskbar and seeing the CP displayed allows you to still open that up without bringing up the new Crawler bar or popup option in the lower left corner.

    The two main issues found here however for not seeing any reason to have 8 as a second OS since I wouldn't be in any rush to replace 7 to start with was first both versions crash when set up in a dual boot with 8 as the host OS and booting into 7 from the 8 boot options screen resulting in numerous drive errors on both OS drives!

    Both versions suddenly would freeze up solid when during startup. When changing drive modes following a recent clean install of 7 to remove the CP's dual booting mbr entries and the RP refresh option had automatically added 7 into the 8 BCD instead of using EasyBCD to add 8 into 7's 7 started right up and only required a fast restart to finish seeing both OS drives mounted as SCSI devices adding one more boot screen. 8 on the other hand failed to accept the change and became unbootable!

    Subsequently with the RP install then trashed I simply replaced 8 with a Linux distro I had wanted to try running on a drive. That was later to see a 7 VM install on the Linux flavor of VirtualBox while the RP failed to go onto any VM there while in 7 the RP install failed on VM Player while it took on the Windows flavor of VBox. There are definitely some new issues with 8 following the success of seeing the CP go right on VM Player previously.

    The second main issue however is being able to run everything I want on on 7 but only seeing about half able to run on 8! As often the case however you might expect there will be programs that simply won't run on a new version while the same type of problems with Vista compatibility issues was multiplied in 8. With Vista it was a small handful while 8 sees a larger number of both old game titles(except Return to CastleWolfenstein for some reason still a surviver) along with a variety of utilities.

    New drivers in the wait will be one thing MS eleviated for 7 when pressing OEMs to have driver support available. In fact I had one set of 7 beta drivers from Creative Labs in use for 2yrs. without any issues having installed those found in the same folder I had downloaded other SB updates!

    Now as far as Tablet you can't really say 8 is a Tablet OS gui since MS now has their own brand of "Surface" Tablet running RT not 8 on it. While everyone has been focused on 8 which goes on netbooks, laptops, and desktops MS has a separate mobile and hand held OS apart from 8 now being seen.

    The touchscreen gui simply being placed on a stripped down Windows OS however is the sad approach MS is taking for seeing a touchscreen version arrive however. The best possible move noting that Vista allowed for the Classic as well as the Aero themes when introducing Glass into Windows as well as gadgets and the sidebar annoyane was having "OPTIONS" at least during set up or later where you could see the more traditional desktop and not be forced to mouse your way through a series of extra steps to do what you had been accustomed to doing.

    The 17yrs. before major gui change being realized is not the plus factor 96 brought in to replace the manual Windows startup seen with 3.1, 3.11! That was a progressive change in the right direction making life far easier seeing Windows auto load for the first time rather then typing "win" all the time at the dos prompt. One blog writer did sum up what the Metro or Modern doing for Windows however with the term "convoluted". And despite whatever core improvements have been made many are simply not buying it!
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

This will be Microsofts biggest ever flop, far bigger than Vista.
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