Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums


This will be Microsofts biggest ever flop, far bigger than Vista.

  1. #1331


    Thanks for pointing those out, Terry. Yes. The consumer will ultimately decide. Not me, article authors, computer scientists, nor any individual. I wish MS the best of luck. I feel they have been a dynamic company within our recent modern times.

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  2. #1332


    Quote Originally Posted by TerryE View Post
    Time will tell how well consumers can adapt to the new OS and whether they'll like it enough to embrace it.
    I agree with you, Terry. Just looking at computer OS history, it's common to see a new interface design notably disliked but eventually embraced. I didn't care for XP at first, holding firmly to W98. But eventually I acquiesced and adapted, eventually to find XP superior.

    With W8, there's a lot more of a paradigm shift going on here. I think there will be room for a service pack that introduces some UI configuration options that lessens the struggle to adapt. My biggest complaint is when the locations of settings have been moved AND require more clicks to reach. I hope Microsoft put in a comprehensive intuitive help system that will hot link settings that you search for, so that it helps make the transition less painless. It would also help to not only show the desired settings dialog, but the path to get to it. This is something that the help system has often failed to do for settings that require you to drill down 2+ levels.
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  3. #1333


    Australia
    Posts : 716
    Windows 7 Ult Reatil & Win 8 Pro OEM


    Interesting, but I was at local doc's surgery today, and it's ultra modern in a modern complex, and couldn't help noticing he's still using XP when he typed out the prescription. I couldn't resist asking why still XP. He answered: Why not, it does the job fine! I stopped short of telling him he'll have to upgrade in a few years, like it or not.

    Quote Originally Posted by HipsieGypsie
    I wish MS the best of luck. I feel they have been a dynamic company within our recent modern times.
    I agree with this up to a point. No doubt MS provide a professionally made product. And have been the bench mark for DIY PC owners for decades. They have brought uniformity and a universally understood set of parameters to an industry where every man and his dog who manufactures third party software programs has a different approach. But they all are made to conform to MS Windows. You know what you're going to get, whether you're in downtown New York, or a farway mountain retreat in the Himalayas.

    I was recenlty talking to one guy who lives in a small settlement in the far north-west of Aussie, and he said he was moving out to a more remote town as the population had become too big ... it had just increased to 12 persons! But he knew all about Windows! A bit like General Motors Holdern cars. There's a saying in Aussie that if you're travelling west of the black stump, and need spare parts, you're sure to find a Holden dealer.

    My main criticism of MS is that there is no rival competitor on a parity with what they do so well. Competition is always a good thing for the consumer. It not only keeps prices down, but ensures that the manufacturers keep in touch with consumer preferences.
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  4. #1334


    Posts : 738
    1st W10 Professional x64/W7 Ultimate x64 - 2nd Remote system: W10 Insider Builds/W7 Professional


    Quote Originally Posted by TerryE View Post
    I agree, Tony, but I think in the long term the consumer community will decide the fate of Windows 8. XP was met with much criticism at first, and in fact it was out of favor for a long time until SP2 arrived. After SP2 it became a pretty rock-solid OS, seeing wide acceptance from end users and businesses alike.

    Vista was met with a lot of unhappiness because it required significant hardware upgrades for a lot of people (my little 256 MB XP machine could not handle Vista, even though 256 MB was more than plenty for XP). By the time the dust settled on that, Windows 7 showed up and the hardware on the market had caught up.

    Windows 8 does not appears to have any significant hardware requirements beyond what Windows 7 has. The interface is different, confusing at first, and a radical shift. In the long run, as the same interface shows up in other places, I think people will get used to it. I've never heard people say "hey, I can't figure out this iPad interface" or "my Galaxy tablet is so hard to use" - they adapt.

    Time will tell how well consumers can adapt to the new OS and whether they'll like it enough to embrace it.
    You mean XP SP3 don't you? It was SP3 that brought in the 1,000 fixes that XP had long awaited for! SP2 cleaned up some stuff while the old version simply was never going to be as stable as Vista followed by 7 to start with. SP1 there broke down the 137gb hardware barrier on drive capacities.

    While everyone was dogging Vista as a slow turtle I was finding it to be far more stable and reliable but still missing certain things plus Fat support removed and later returned in 7. 7 under strees over the last 3 full years now being loaded up from every angle has proven itself to be the best and most reliable OS MS has come out with to date.

    Where MS goofed royally with Vista was not stating the actual minimum system requirements of 2gb for the 32bit, 2.5gb for the 64bit the same as now seen for both 7 and 8! OEMs were able to slide Vista onto older, cheaper systems without putting in the extra memory from the start.

    And even with XP if you went from 1gb to 2gb of memory wooooow what a difference to be seen! The great performance boost to be realized! The first build here to run XP SP1 however saw 768mb until the next case was built for the initial pair of 512mb dimms. And then came the next few builds once SP2 was out for both Home and Pro editions back then with 2gb. Later Vista and XP both were dual booted on the same XP Pro case with 2gb and all went well.

    Vista was on the first week it was out soon to see a new home on the last build which ended up seeing 4gb at first. 7 was tested along with the dual boot until XP was dumped entirely since the 32bit 7 could run all the same things. while the RC builds were on. Suddenly once 7 was out following the complaints about Vista being slow you noticed 4gb for the 32bit and 6gb common on both OEM laptops and desktops. The OEMs were playing catch up to the increased hardware capacities seen over the last several years.

    As far as 8 you can run that on as little as 512mb! You can install but wouldn't see any benefit that is since you could install and run XP, Vista, 7, and 8 on that smaller amount and still run with the basics. 7 brought in the MinWin kernel modular in form which is nothing new seen in 8 but a continuation of. MS developed that after realizing Vista was Windows grown too big in size.

    For 8 if it would run things like 7 does now without running into OpenGL issues and other compatibility problems experienced it would be considered for a second OS here. The improvements however are buried beneath the surface under the cloud of a major gui upheaval. And that's where the blog writers are getting all of their sensationalisms from.
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  5. #1335


    Posts : 534
    Windows 7, Windows 8 RP


    Quote Originally Posted by TerryE View Post
    I've never heard people say "hey, I can't figure out this iPad interface" or "my Galaxy tablet is so hard to use"
    No but by the time those products came out users had experience with the iPhone or the Touch that they could draw from because the concepts were the same. The iPhone as the first touch device was not intuitive when it was first released, users had to be shown how access things, swipe, pinch zoom, where to find settings and access pictures etc. Mobile providers trained users as did the Apple "Genius'", they weren't handed the new iPhone and told to go on their marry way and figure it out.
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  6. #1336


    Tropical Island Pair a Dice
    Posts : 3,030
    Windows 8.1 Pro x64/ Windows 7 Ult x64


    Quote Originally Posted by snoop101 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by HippsieGypsie View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by PaulGo View Post
    Ah! Some more negative media sensationalism. Jumping on the "Pirillo" bandwagon. "It's so much fun showing people 8 without a little bit of instruction. Gee! People are so stupid, aren't they?!" Purely asinine IMO.
    The guy who is quoted in that article has a PHD in Human-Computer interaction, holds 79 US patents pertaining to ui usability elements, and has written 7+ books on user interface design. What are your credentials in this field?
    That actually make what he did much worse, the majority of people know that on anything new most people need at least a little information to get started.

    This guy should know the minimum of what people need to know to start using a new OS, in fact from what you said he does know and just didn't bother giving any information at all.
    This guy is a troll, trying to make a name for himself in the 'I Hate Windows' crowd.
    He should be embarrassed for what he is trying to pass off as a true test of an OS.

    Most people that have learned a little about Windows 8 could walk up to a stranger on the street and give them a 1 minute walk through that would enable them to navigate enough to find the things they normally do on a computer.
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  7. #1337


    [/QUOTE]That actually make what he did much worse, the majority of people know that on anything new most people need at least a little information to get started.

    This guy should know the minimum of what people need to know to start using a new OS, in fact from what you said he does know and just didn't bother giving any information at all.
    This guy is a troll, trying to make a name for himself in the 'I Hate Windows' crowd.
    He should be embarrassed for what he is trying to pass off as a true test of an OS.

    Most people that have learned a little about Windows 8 could walk up to a stranger on the street and give them a 1 minute walk through that would enable them to navigate enough to find the things they normally do on a computer.[/QUOTE]

    100% ditto, Dave! I'm assuming there was no instructions given before his test. Not trying to correct you, but let's not jump to conclusions, though. The article is not clear on this aspect, although it states that people were having trouble changing between UIs. This leads me to assume there was no previous instructions.

    I wonder if his findings are published. If so, why didn't the author link it? Or would that be too much responsible journalism?!
    Last edited by HippsieGypsie; 26 Oct 2012 at 08:05.
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  8. #1338


    Posts : 738
    1st W10 Professional x64/W7 Ultimate x64 - 2nd Remote system: W10 Insider Builds/W7 Professional


    It's simply become a blog writer's field day! One comment from a friend who was still running an old XP case that needs some repair now and never tried either Vista or 7 but ironically borrows a 7 laptop often enough hates 8!

    He likened it to going from an Android touchscreen phone to a Windows machine and if you regularly use the other OS it's no big deal. But if you are seeing it for the first time... "What is this crap?! How do you do anything with this?"

    Due to the drastic gui change this will be the main reason why 8 will automatically start off with a bad rep. It's unavoidable and the blog writers naturally are simply out to cash in on the MS dilemna. They don't have to fill a blog page with instructions for use but simply critise the way MS is bringing things about.
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  9. #1339


    Posts : 80
    Windows 8 Pro


    The problem is that people just don't give it a chance. I have no problem with it, it took me less than 2hrs to work with it. That being said, I also spent the last three days going through some Win 8 books, but still. The UI for me is irrelevant. The kernel changes are way more important. Those on 7 don't know what they are missing out.
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  10. #1340


    Posts : 3
    Windows 7, Windows 8

    Windows 8 is an exercise in eliminating choice, we must not comply.


    Flop is right. I will also have to agree that Windows 8 will be a bigger disaster for Microsoft than Vista was.

    I have been a power user since even before the original Windows 1.0 came out. I have run the course and dealt with every version, including server versions.

    Besides the fact that Windows 8 is designed for touchscreens, it seems Microsoft has gone out of their way to make it more difficult to use for mouse users than they had to. I feel I am being punished for still using a mouse, if that makes sense. Why can't a single mouse click do what a single touch on the screen can do? Microsoft intentionally added unnecessary mouse clicks.

    I have been using the BETA and RTM pre-release versions of Windows 8 on a test PC to play around with. Tonight within an hour start of Microsoft's sale of Windows 8, I downloaded the latest Windows 8 Upgrade Assistant and ran it on my production PC, which is a high end four core i7 based PC I built running Windows 7 x64. Right off the bat Window 8 Upgrade Assistant reports I have 23 applications that are not compatible, most of which will never be compatible according to it. Some of them are Microsoft's own products that are not even old versions. For instance Microsoft Expression Web 4 is incompatible, they say there is an update available, but I have read it works for some and not others. My O&O Defrag software, which i bought last year is incompatible. PowerISO, NERO 9, Adobe PhotoShop Lightroom 3.5, Microsoft FrontPage 2003, F1 2011 (the only game I have), Adobe Media Player, Rosetta Stone, Spyder3Pro Monitor Color Calibration, Total Video Converter, Symantec pcAnywhere (needed to help Dad, Mother-in-law, & step-Dad with their PC's), WM Recorder, and many more are not compatible or require a paid update to work. A full one quarter of my apps are incompatible.

    This is probably why they are offering a $14.99 and $39 upgrade, to offset the disaster of what has been touted as a renewed Windows 7.

    They alienate non "Metro (formerly) apps", by relegating them to outsider status and not including them separately in the Metro (formerly) Interface, but they also went out of their way to make it more difficult to use a mouse than a touch screen. I also resent the loss of the Start menu as an option. You do realize this was extra work to remove, they did it just to alienate desktops even more. And finally, right-click menus no longer appear right beside the mouse pointer in the new "formerly called Metro apps", like every other previous desktop app on the planet did until now.

    This really sucks because there are a few things I expected in Window 7 that finally made it into Win 8 like the enhanced task manager and Explorer apps, and the seamless multi-monitor support.

    All in all I definitely not be upgrading ANY of my PC's, and if this is the attitude Microsoft has towards the desktop, we have a serious problem. As a power user I expect to be using a desktop for the next 20 years at least. I can't understand why Microsoft is doing this?

    If someone had told me a few years ago that Microsoft would abandon the desktop user so maliciously I would have said they were crazy. I am still in disbelief. As a life long professional IT guy close to retirement I would have bet my 401k against it. I am really bummed at this turn of events.

    I hope Windows 8 sales slaps Microsoft really good and awakens them to their stupidity. As users we cannot allow corporations to corner us into losing what we have had since the beginning of the PC revolution, choice. Apple does this with the App Store, limiting your choices, and now with their IOS 6 they removed two choice apps because they want you to buy their product. Microsoft is now trying to do this with Metro, or whatever it's called now. Microsoft also now wants to lock gamers into their world, trying to shut other out. We have to stand together and demand choice. I hate that I have to JailBreak my iPhone to get the apps I want. The top 5 apps I use on my iPhone are not possible to get through the Apple app store. My iPhone 4 is amazing with what it can do and how much better it works than a non-jailbroken iPhone.

    We have to push back. Don't give Microsoft any money for this garbage. Insist on Microsoft providing what WE want, not what they want to sell us.
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This will be Microsofts biggest ever flop, far bigger than Vista.
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