Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums


This will be Microsofts biggest ever flop, far bigger than Vista.

  1. #1251


    Posts : 1,320
    Server 2012 / 8.0


    On this thread again - yikes


    Quote Originally Posted by SIW2 View Post
    I don't like win8.
    That's OK. I don't like Windows 7 or Linux (any version). Don't care for Apple stuff either. I have no smartphone, no tablet, no laptop, no touch device of any kind, and find 8 easy to use with a mouse and keyboard... and have been using it exclusively as my only OS for a full year now.

    Quote Originally Posted by FSeal View Post
    And I'm not talking about the completely unusable Metro IE10, this is with the desktop version, the masses will have even less luck.
    Curious, "completely unusable Metro IE10" ?? I have been using it for a year and really appreciate the new design and how well it works. The full screen only Metro IE eliminates the need to constantly resize and move windows. The command bar and the tabs at the top of screen also work very well. The desktop IE is a great browser. No problems here.

    Quote Originally Posted by 714 View Post
    if you give consumers the option to disable Metro, it will do FAR better than if you don't.
    Quote Originally Posted by gulls777 View Post
    give an option to turn metro off for those who don't want to use it
    Turning "off" the metro is turning "off" a part of the Windows 8 Operating System. Disabling the start screen, the all apps area, the edge UI (charms), the hotspots, thumbnails, semantic zoom features and metro apps (including the metro IE), the store, etc... is a return to the past which is fine and ok if that is where you want to be.

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  2. #1252


    DeLand, FL
    Posts : 380
    Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit


    Quote Originally Posted by Kat View Post
    It'll grow on you. I guarantee it, it did for me.

    Actually, my only REAL worry with it is this bloody push to the cloud.

    Ain't going. No way. No how. Not gonna happen.
    Can't agree. Grow on me it absolutely did not. The more I used it, the less I liked it. The Aero desktop on my systems looked better and better. With Win8 I not only had an ugly "Modern" front-end but the desktop was ugly as hell to boot. Absolutely nothing about it is attractive in any way as far as I'm concerned.

    I will probably always be a Microsoft developer but it will be with the products I've already purchased. If Microsoft continues on this stupid "Modern" track with all their GUI's then they won't see any more of my dollars unless I'm buying another copy of Win7 or something. I bought a brand-spanking-new notebook system to avoid the Win8 transition. It's solid, locked down and should do fine for a long time. Bye Win8.

    As for the cloud point, I agree completely. I use a little bit of cloud storage as backup, but I will not place anything critical out there that I can't afford to lose. No way, no how, not gonna happen! ;-)

    -Max
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  3. #1253


    Posts : 636
    Windows 7/8


    Metro IE10s unusability comes from the fact that you CAN'T resize it. Also the Flash doesn't work half the places you go. Coupled with the the don't track feature (which is good in theory) there are sites that you simply can't see or log into.

    Everyone has their set fave sites they go to and those sites are different for everyone. If you've somehow managed to not get caught with IE10's OOB incomptability, consider yourself lucky. It's the #1 reason I DON'T use FF or Chrome, they are broken on too many sites. IE /used to/ be most compatible. With IE10 that is looking like it's no longer the case.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  4. #1254


    Adelaide
    Posts : 1,338
    Windows 7 Ultimate SP1 (64 bit), Linux Mint 17.1 MATE (64 bit)


    Quote Originally Posted by FSeal View Post
    It's the #1 reason I DON'T use FF or Chrome, they are broken on too many sites. IE /used to/ be most compatible. With IE10 that is looking like it's no longer the case.
    I can't say I've noticed that with FF.
    When I have site problems, it's usually because NoScript is blocking the hundreds of cascading js routines (and Flash widgets) that seem to be the norm these days.

    IE10 is supposed to be more standards compliant.
    It's nowhere near as compliant as Chrome (which I don't like/use) or even FF.

    Seems like you are saying too many sites are still coded for IE6.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  5. #1255


    DeLand, FL
    Posts : 380
    Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit


    I still think that Microsoft would have been better off by starting from scratch with a tablet O/S and not trying to integrate the two directly. Instead of screwing around with desktop Windows (which is wildly successful), the tablet O/S should have been developed specifically for tablet machines. In the desktop version of the O/S just provide a subsystem that will allow the user to run the "Modern" apps if they want to and craft Visual Studio to develop to the tablet O/S. Leave the desktop totally alone and add on the pieces necessary to support the tablet experience.

    But no ... Microsoft had to try and shove everybody down the same pipe. Even non "Metro" (I mean "Modern") stuff (including their web sites) are all taking on the flat "chromeless" look. IMO this is a major overkill.

    On my sytem I went to make a change to a mouse setting. The normal desktop Control-Panel utility comes up but the tab for the mouse settings is now empty except for a link. Click the link then (after waiting 15 seconds or so) another application loads with the mouse settings. It looks just like Metro (I mean Modern). It looks very patched sitting there on an Aero desktop. There was no reason to rework that whole thing just so it looks like Metro ... it looks like a hack and is slow as hell when loading. It's almost all whitespace and knowing where to click things requires hovering the mouse over text in different places. The concept of control buttons on forms seems to be going away. Ugly as hell.

    -Max
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  6. #1256


    Posts : 738
    1st W10 Professional x64/W7 Ultimate x64 - 2nd Remote system: W10 Insider Builds/W7 Professional


    Quote Originally Posted by 714 View Post
    Okay, I haven't read through this thread, so sorry if this is repeat.

    Why was Vista a flop? Was it because it was a bad OS? No. It was because of hardware problems. It was more demanding and resource hogging than old 2K and XP. Run Vista on decent hardware, and it was a pretty good OS. Now, why does 8 have the chance to be a flop? Because of Metro. IMO, I think some people don't like it because it is CHANGE. A lot of people don't like change, and that's why people hate it. Now, yes, 8 is built for a touch screen monitor, but it is a decent OS on a regular monitor and mouse and keyboard system. 8 is fast, and stable, and if you give consumers the option to disable Metro, it will do FAR better than if you don't.


    714
    Well spoken! Vista is a good OS if you are running the older version on adequate hardwares starting off with at least 2gb of memory despite the MS goof originally made about a 512mb minimum! The OEMs loved the way they "cut corners" still seeing new desktops and laptops shipped out with only 512mb installed.

    The security and stability issues that compromised XP were addressed in Vista however as well as the improved crash control. XP would simply end up blue screening far more often. Compatibility issues with older programs and lack of drivers suppoort were the main items on the list however besides the larger kernel that tended to weight the older version down ended up seeing a bad rep.

    The CP here was found to be reliable as well for what it was being a new version with some enhancements and a few much needed improvements as far as the MS side of virus/malware protection namely a renamed MS Security Essentials to replace a worthless Windows Defender that never did much! Other core elements have also seen a further development of the MinWin kernel brought in first with 7. At least MS is continuing on with the modular type kernel to see that part of Windows made progressive.

    The way MS decided to trash the desktop concept however by the way they implemented the "Modern" or whatever it will carry for a name is why most are up in arms about the drastic gui changes best suited for an embedded OS not for any form of standard desktop platform.

    Quote Originally Posted by SIW2 View Post
    I like change. Most people do. That is why they buy new things - that is why we all have mobile phones. That is why "New" is often plastered all over packaging for all kinds of products.

    I don't like win8.
    At first I had to get used to the changes even 7 brought in while they were found to be favorable and well orchestrated over the contrast seen with 8. When speaking about Vista with it's sidebar annoyance you could easily disable that from auto loading. Not the Modern however!

    It's not simply bringing in the Start screen idea for touchscreen monitors making this type of interface available but how MS went about stripping the common denominators of a traditional desktop OS out without leaving any options for the user! The 3.1 to 95 change of gui there was the best move MS ever made gui wise and was seen as progress.

    Touchscreen support was improved with 7 but how MS is trashing the Desktop for Modern? How MS is bringing the gui changes this time however leaves much to be desired. While playing party favors to rivel the fruit company on the mobile market along with any improvement as far as touchscreen technology they seem to have abandoned the desktop user!

    So how does it look in the long run? Here without being able to set WMP as the default playback medium for video capture/vcd projects and relying on some 3rd party program like VLC 7 still picks up the slack 8 would now be bringing in! Compatibility issues to some extent otherwise would be the normal thing to expect to some extent with any new version to come.

    As for IE while one version will come default with each new version to follow IE 6 for XP, IE 7 for Vista, IE 8 for 7, and now IE 10 for 8 IE 8 seems to have been the best so far with 7 being a vast improvement for Vista to replace the practically useless IE 6 filled with too many security holes. IE 9 could be problematic while the beta for 10 had been looking better.

    With the 64bit Windows in use here the solution was to be found elsewhere however yet still needing IE at times for a select list of things like software updates. The next version however is still seeing some rough edges until being finalized and seen out with 8 and no longer just the beta form as seen with the CP and RP builds. Once you see IE 10 available for Vista/7 then you will know the finished 10 is out.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  7. #1257


    Adelaide
    Posts : 1,338
    Windows 7 Ultimate SP1 (64 bit), Linux Mint 17.1 MATE (64 bit)

    XP vs IE9


    Quote Originally Posted by Night Hawk View Post
    Once you see IE 10 available for Vista/7 then you will know the finished 10 is out.
    Assuming that MS doesn't pull an "XP vs IE9" manoeuvre.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  8. #1258


    Posts : 92
    Windows 10 (64 bit)


    Paul Allen likes Windows 8 -- well, except for a few things

    ...But the dual modes may be pretty confusing for users, especially when two versions of the same application, like Internet Explorer, can be opened and run simultaneously.
    Windows 8 does certainly require a brief adjustment period before users become familiar and comfortable with the new bimodal operating system," Allen noted. For one criticism, Windows doesn't allow users to start their systems with the desktop as the default view, something Allen says should be an option. Instead, they start in the Windows 8 style. And the "Charms" bar, which offers access to important features like search and settings, isn't easily obviously to users.

    What Allen found most "puzzling" was adjusting to the new features as a traditional desktop user. For example, he had a hard time using multiple monitors, and the system would sometimes switch between the two modes when he didn't really want it to.

    "Personally, I would almost always prefer for Windows to leave me in whichever mode I was already in," Allen said.

    Full article at:
    Paul Allen likes Windows 8 -- well, except for a few things | Microsoft - CNET News
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  9. #1259


    Posts : 636
    Windows 7/8


    Quote Originally Posted by lehnerus2000 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by FSeal View Post
    It's the #1 reason I DON'T use FF or Chrome, they are broken on too many sites. IE /used to/ be most compatible. With IE10 that is looking like it's no longer the case.
    I can't say I've noticed that with FF.
    When I have site problems, it's usually because NoScript is blocking the hundreds of cascading js routines (and Flash widgets) that seem to be the norm these days.

    IE10 is supposed to be more standards compliant.
    It's nowhere near as compliant as Chrome (which I don't like/use) or even FF.

    Seems like you are saying too many sites are still coded for IE6.
    I'm not sure what the problem is, it may just be buggy websites not tested on IE 10 yet. It may be the no tracking feature which defintely breaks some sites that are trying to track you (and that's nearly all of them). In the end it really doesn't matter what the cause is. If IE 10 is broken OOTB on enough sites then that'll be a black eye for it an Windows 8.

    I've been an IE booster since 7 over anything else because of site compatibility, but IE 10 is eroding that quickly now that I've been using it a lot...
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  10. #1260


    Posts : 636
    Windows 7/8


    Quote Originally Posted by PaulGo View Post
    Paul Allen likes Windows 8 -- well, except for a few things

    ...But the dual modes may be pretty confusing for users, especially when two versions of the same application, like Internet Explorer, can be opened and run simultaneously.
    Windows 8 does certainly require a brief adjustment period before users become familiar and comfortable with the new bimodal operating system," Allen noted. For one criticism, Windows doesn't allow users to start their systems with the desktop as the default view, something Allen says should be an option. Instead, they start in the Windows 8 style. And the "Charms" bar, which offers access to important features like search and settings, isn't easily obviously to users.

    What Allen found most "puzzling" was adjusting to the new features as a traditional desktop user. For example, he had a hard time using multiple monitors, and the system would sometimes switch between the two modes when he didn't really want it to.

    "Personally, I would almost always prefer for Windows to leave me in whichever mode I was already in," Allen said.

    Full article at:
    Paul Allen likes Windows 8 -- well, except for a few things | Microsoft - CNET News
    I've been positive from the get-go that the entire forced metro experience was entirely a marketing descision, not an engineering one. I'm SURE that the actual product designers and engineers would not have made Win 8 the way it is now. It has "Designed by Marketing" written all over it.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

This will be Microsofts biggest ever flop, far bigger than Vista.
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