Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums


If Microsoft is to metrofy Windows Explorer, they need to do it right.

  1. #11


    Posts : 162
    windows 7


    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post

    Wow....
    Is that it????

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  2. #12


    Posts : 288
    Windows 7 Ultimate, Windows Developer Preview, Linux Mint 9


    You have been rather hasty on your judgments ADRz. About System Reset and System Refresh, well its the first time you can do that on a Microsoft Desktop computer and they are not bad. You dislike the Metro but don't let that be a reason why you seem to see Windows 8 as total failure while you seem to disregarding the other features not in the Metro, considering them minor. There was another user on this forum who posted a video of his use of Windows 8 on a tablet but even so, he doesnt use Metro apps. He said he could even use Photoshop on that tablet. You seem to be criticizing it in every way.

    If you will be given a chance to change something or add something on Windows 8 right now to your wishes, what will it be? I know this is unlikely but lets just make this scenario up.
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  3. #13


    Posts : 162
    windows 7


    Quote Originally Posted by Vertex View Post
    You have been rather hasty on your judgments ADRz. About System Reset and System Refresh, well its the first time you can do that on a Microsoft Desktop computer and they are not bad.
    I do not think that you are listening to me. As far as the desktop goes, the System Reset and System Refresh are the same utilities that were in Win7 with a different name. They do nothing that interests me. In Win8, they just reset the Metro part, not the desktop. Sure, if you run them you will have a blank desktop but then, you could have done this easily in Win7. So, why are you so excited about? Are there any Metro apps that you depend on? So, you are totally wrong about being able to do this "for the first time". It is really old technology, being in Win CE for sometime.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vertex View Post
    You dislike the Metro but don't let that be a reason why you seem to see Windows 8 as total failure while you seem to disregarding the other features not in the Metro, considering them minor. There was another user on this forum who posted a video of his use of Windows 8 on a tablet but even so, he doesnt use Metro apps. He said he could even use Photoshop on that tablet. You seem to be criticizing it in every way.
    I already run Photoshop in a Win7 tablet!!! In fact, that person does not know that he cannot run Photoshop effectively in that tablet. To run Photoshop in a tablet you need to have a resistive screen, not a capacitive one. The capacitive screens lack precision and they do not register pressure. It is one thing to want to run Photoshop and totally another to actually run it!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Vertex View Post
    If you will be given a chance to change something or add something on Windows 8 right now to your wishes, what will it be? I know this is unlikely but lets just make this scenario up.
    Well, I would totally junk the mobile OS. I would run what is now a virtualized task (the Win7 desktop) natively as the core of the OS. The Metro mobile OS should be reserved for tablets. Nobody would want to run desktop apps in that environment anyway. Too small a screen to do anything interesting, anyway.

    What you get in Win8 is a mobile OS that virtualizes the Win7 desktop. Thus, you can move the whole OS to ARM minus the virtual tasks and have the same OS. I think that this is a very wrong approach (and it is not only me). The OSX approach is much better, running elements of iOS as tasks under the desktop. Thus, it retains its core expertise and provides some benefits of a mobile OS (the apps) to the user. A much, much better approach. If Apple had designed Lion to be iOS which was running OSX as a virtual task, then you would have had the equivalent of Win8. But Apple is too clever to do something as stupid as MS is doing with Win8.

    So, what is the way forward, you may ask. If I am going to run Win7 apps in a virtual environment, then I do not need Win8. I can run Win7 as a virtual task under OSX or under Linux. This is a far better proposition for power users. You have the same experience as with Win8 (the virtual task), but the main OS is an industrial strength desktop OS and its applications are not stupid, full-screen apps.

    So, if you are going to run the Win7 desktop as a virtual task, why do it under a brain-dead, full screen mobile OS???? You tell me. Wouldn't Linux be better? Do you really like these puny little Metro apps? Give me a good reason for your choice.
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  4. #14


    Posts : 288
    Windows 7 Ultimate, Windows Developer Preview, Linux Mint 9


    Well I do not really like the current design of the Metro Apps and their "flatness" and I keep repeating on saying that I had Metro disabled and for the most part, I don't use the Metro apps. As far as I'm concerened, the System Reset its not exactly that way it was on Windows 7. There are these advanced recovery methods on Windows 7, but its sort of a reinstall that still requires your installation media and your files from the previous installation will be on the Windows.old folder, with Windows 8, they have tweaked how that works and if they do it really right in the future, it would not even need you to insert your installation media to refresh or reset the computer. I feel that you have not carefully looked into this process. Have you even tried using the System Reset and System Refresh options on the Windows 8 Control Panel, the Control Panel not in the Metro? It even creates a folder named $SysReset on the C: main drive of WDP. I think it was improved on Windows 8 compared to Windows 7. Check this out:

    Reset Windows 8

    To use Photoshop, of course it is possible to attach a real keyboard and mouse to your tablet. I dislike the Metro part but I don't want to fail to see what's the new things I can get outside the Metro.

    Like you, I use Windows because I want to run Windows applications not because its Windows and because I wanted the latest but there is a taste for something new. I used Linux too but I don't want to install Windows inside a virtual machine inside Linux because my system does not have very good specs to support a guest OS.

    You do not directly answer my question about what you would do to Windows 8 if you will be given a (fictional) chance to alter its current design.
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  5. #15


    Posts : 22,582
    64-bit Windows 10


    warning   Warning
    Let's keep this discussion friendly shall we.

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  6. #16


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by ADRz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Vertex View Post
    You have been rather hasty on your judgments ADRz. About System Reset and System Refresh, well its the first time you can do that on a Microsoft Desktop computer and they are not bad.
    I do not think that you are listening to me. As far as the desktop goes, the System Reset and System Refresh are the same utilities that were in Win7 with a different name. They do nothing that interests me. In Win8, they just reset the Metro part, not the desktop. Sure, if you run them you will have a blank desktop but then, you could have done this easily in Win7. So, why are you so excited about? Are there any Metro apps that you depend on? So, you are totally wrong about being able to do this "for the first time". It is really old technology, being in Win CE for sometime.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vertex View Post
    You dislike the Metro but don't let that be a reason why you seem to see Windows 8 as total failure while you seem to disregarding the other features not in the Metro, considering them minor. There was another user on this forum who posted a video of his use of Windows 8 on a tablet but even so, he doesnt use Metro apps. He said he could even use Photoshop on that tablet. You seem to be criticizing it in every way.
    I already run Photoshop in a Win7 tablet!!! In fact, that person does not know that he cannot run Photoshop effectively in that tablet. To run Photoshop in a tablet you need to have a resistive screen, not a capacitive one. The capacitive screens lack precision and they do not register pressure. It is one thing to want to run Photoshop and totally another to actually run it!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Vertex View Post
    If you will be given a chance to change something or add something on Windows 8 right now to your wishes, what will it be? I know this is unlikely but lets just make this scenario up.
    Well, I would totally junk the mobile OS. I would run what is now a virtualized task (the Win7 desktop) natively as the core of the OS. The Metro mobile OS should be reserved for tablets. Nobody would want to run desktop apps in that environment anyway. Too small a screen to do anything interesting, anyway.

    What you get in Win8 is a mobile OS that virtualizes the Win7 desktop. Thus, you can move the whole OS to ARM minus the virtual tasks and have the same OS. I think that this is a very wrong approach (and it is not only me). The OSX approach is much better, running elements of iOS as tasks under the desktop. Thus, it retains its core expertise and provides some benefits of a mobile OS (the apps) to the user. A much, much better approach. If Apple had designed Lion to be iOS which was running OSX as a virtual task, then you would have had the equivalent of Win8. But Apple is too clever to do something as stupid as MS is doing with Win8.

    So, what is the way forward, you may ask. If I am going to run Win7 apps in a virtual environment, then I do not need Win8. I can run Win7 as a virtual task under OSX or under Linux. This is a far better proposition for power users. You have the same experience as with Win8 (the virtual task), but the main OS is an industrial strength desktop OS and its applications are not stupid, full-screen apps.

    So, if you are going to run the Win7 desktop as a virtual task, why do it under a brain-dead, full screen mobile OS???? You tell me. Wouldn't Linux be better? Do you really like these puny little Metro apps? Give me a good reason for your choice.
    Windows 7 has System Repair options in the Recovery Environment that uses the install media to repair it. There is startup repair to make Windows boot if it isn't. Then there is flatout reinstalling Windows clean, then moving user data around.

    Refresh keeps the metro elements, and chucks out changes to the Desktop but keeps user data and system settings. The point is to keep the metro apps. I don't know if you realize, people have a tendency to buy 4 dollar apps and not 40 dollar desktop programs. If a user had 40 dollars worth of apps installed and they reset Windows and lost all those apps, it'd be a pain. The point of refresh to refresh the components of Windows that degrade, most likely the registry.

    Doing a reinstall of Windows isn't a light task for the vast majority of Windows users, that's why best buy and the geek squad are still around. I get that this has been around for sometime, but on mobile platforms. This feature coming to Windows will be a GODsend for people like me who maintenance several Windows installations.

    Wait, you have a Windows 7 tablet?!

    How is Windows 7 being virtualized in Windows 8?
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  7. #17


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Anyways, getting back on topic, I think for Windows Explorer, the Details pane needs to be put back on the bottom the screen. It being on the side, you don't get a lot of usable detail in a glance without pulling it all the way out. I don't know, maybe make it a flyout pane like the Settings bar?

    Also, I feel that the File menu in the Ribbon can easily be consolidated into the Home tab. There are probably three relevant items in the menu, Help, command prompt, and open a new window. By doing that, it could definitely clear up some space for a larger back button and smaller forward button. And ditch the up button! Bleh! Really? We have breadcrumb navigation, I don't understand why Microsoft added that back, maybe for the xp users? I don't know.

    Hmm, I think I might draw a mockup of what I'm talking about to illustrate this better...
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  8. #18


    Posts : 288
    Windows 7 Ultimate, Windows Developer Preview, Linux Mint 9


    I also think that better management of Windows installations are a Godsend. But it would be much better if this whole System Reset and System Refresh thing will not require you to insert the installation media. System Reset and System Refresh are necessary when a computer has significant loss of performance due to degradation in the Registry. If I was one of the top guys there in Microsoft's developers, I would try to make a way to eliminate any obsolete elements there in the Registry so that Registry cleaners would not be necessary anymore as many people suffer of the consequences using Registry cleaners that they may need to reinstall.

    Yep Coke, I still want the larger details pane on the bottom of Windows Explorer. I think they decided to shrink it because they need to make up for the loss of space when they added the ribbon on top of Windows Explorer. But I like the "Up To" button. Its a nice little tool.
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If Microsoft is to metrofy Windows Explorer, they need to do it right.
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