Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums


8.1 upgrade with not so old hardware...is a no go

  1. #11


    50 years! I am ever so cautious as far as "unnecessary expenditures" go!!!!!!

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  2. #12


    Wow! Congratulations!

    I would tell her that it is a necessary expenditure > On your knees begging of course!
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  3. #13


    Adelaide
    Posts : 1,338
    Windows 7 Ultimate SP1 (64 bit), Linux Mint 17.1 MATE (64 bit)

    Throw it away


    Quote Originally Posted by Ztruker View Post
    On the plus side, this give me a good excuse to buy a new computer
    That's the whole point.
    You are supposed to throw your PC away and buy a new one (just as if it were a tablet or phone).

    Recently I was wondering why hardware makers kowtowed to MS' demand that they use UEFI.
    It costs them extra money (new components, circuit board design changes, etc.) and it restricts the number of potential buyers.
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  4. #14


    Portsmouth Hants
    Posts : 772
    Windows 8.1 Pro with Media Center


    Quote Originally Posted by lehnerus2000 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ztruker View Post
    On the plus side, this give me a good excuse to buy a new computer
    That's the whole point.
    You are supposed to throw your PC away and buy a new one (just as if it were a tablet or phone).

    Recently I was wondering why hardware makers kowtowed to MS' demand that they use UEFI.
    It costs them extra money (new components, circuit board design changes, etc.) and it restricts the number of potential buyers.
    Only for the first few tens of thousands of units - then economies of scale kick in - early upgraders are often prepared to take the financial hit to be at the cutting edge. After that, the "new" products and their components become mainstream, and cheap.
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  5. #15


    Adelaide
    Posts : 1,338
    Windows 7 Ultimate SP1 (64 bit), Linux Mint 17.1 MATE (64 bit)


    Quote Originally Posted by fafhrd View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by lehnerus2000 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ztruker View Post
    On the plus side, this give me a good excuse to buy a new computer
    That's the whole point.
    You are supposed to throw your PC away and buy a new one (just as if it were a tablet or phone).

    Recently I was wondering why hardware makers kowtowed to MS' demand that they use UEFI.
    It costs them extra money (new components, circuit board design changes, etc.) and it restricts the number of potential buyers.
    Only for the first few tens of thousands of units - then economies of scale kick in - early upgraders are often prepared to take the financial hit to be at the cutting edge. After that, the "new" products and their components become mainstream, and cheap.
    Indeed.
    However that doesn't seem to be the mentality of manufacturers.

    Including a $2 more expensive component, which will save $100 in warranty claims would seem to be a "no brainer" to most people.
    Manufacturers don't see it that way.

    My point was that there was actually no reason for manufacturers to change anything to suit MS.

    Operating systems need hardware.
    What was MS going to do?
    Not release a new OS?
    Therefore MS must have offered them something, other than a pretty sticker, for their trouble.

    Judging by some of the threads I've viewed on EightForums, this UEFI thing is screwing over people with legitimate copies of W8.
    Of course it is also causing trouble for people with other versions of Windows (and Linux).
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  6. #16


    Quote Originally Posted by lehnerus2000 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by fafhrd View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by lehnerus2000 View Post

    That's the whole point.
    You are supposed to throw your PC away and buy a new one (just as if it were a tablet or phone).

    Recently I was wondering why hardware makers kowtowed to MS' demand that they use UEFI.
    It costs them extra money (new components, circuit board design changes, etc.) and it restricts the number of potential buyers.
    Only for the first few tens of thousands of units - then economies of scale kick in - early upgraders are often prepared to take the financial hit to be at the cutting edge. After that, the "new" products and their components become mainstream, and cheap.
    Indeed.
    However that doesn't seem to be the mentality of manufacturers.

    Including a $2 more expensive component, which will save $100 in warranty claims would seem to be a "no brainer" to most people.
    Manufacturers don't see it that way.

    My point was that there was actually no reason for manufacturers to change anything to suit MS.

    Operating systems need hardware.
    What was MS going to do?
    Not release a new OS?
    Therefore MS must have offered them something, other than a pretty sticker, for their trouble.

    Judging by some of the threads I've viewed on EightForums, this UEFI thing is screwing over people with legitimate copies of W8.
    Of course it is also causing trouble for people with other versions of Windows (and Linux).
    UEFI was not introduced by Microsoft nor is it a solo project by them. It is a collaboration of different companies. EFI was created by Intel which grew into the Unified EFI Forum.

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFI_Forum

    This is all created for better and secure booting. And yes, to help eliminate piracy. Windows is not the only software that is pirated. I'm not surprised at all that any of them jumped on board.

    This is new tech. Usually as with all new tech it is a PITA. I think we should give it time for them to work the kinks out.
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  7. #17


    Adelaide
    Posts : 1,338
    Windows 7 Ultimate SP1 (64 bit), Linux Mint 17.1 MATE (64 bit)


    Quote Originally Posted by HippsieGypsie View Post
    UEFI was not introduced by Microsoft nor is it a solo project by them. It is a collaboration of different companies. EFI was created by Intel which grew into the Unified EFI Forum.

    Unified EFI Forum - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    I didn't mean to imply that MS invented UEFI.
    Apple has used EFI for ~7 years.

    MS insisted on it and the OEMs got a sticker for their trouble.

    Quote Originally Posted by HippsieGypsie View Post
    This is all created for better and secure booting. And yes, to help eliminate piracy. Windows is not the only software that is pirated. I'm not surprised at all that any of them jumped on board.
    OS piracy doesn't hurt the component makers (i.e. manufacturers of motherboards, RAM, HDDs, SSDs, etc.).
    It actually increases their sales (pirates can't run a pirated OS without hardware).

    At least one person demonstrated a "Secure Boot" hack (it required Local Access) before W8 even made it to the market.

    Quote Originally Posted by HippsieGypsie View Post
    This is new tech. Usually as with all new tech it is a PITA. I think we should give it time for them to work the kinks out.
    New for MS (and their OEMs) apparently.
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  8. #18


    Texas
    Posts : 1,022
    Windows 8.1


    Quote Originally Posted by Ztruker View Post
    Sorry, but I disagree.

    It is Microsoft's fault that they removed support from the kernel for processors that were supported in 8.0. It is an update since it's available from the store as an update. You don't have to buy a DVD or download a ISO to install it.

    I see it exactly like when they released SP3 for XP. It was an update available through Windows Update but at the same time they refreshed the release channels so new CDs were at the SP3 level.

    They should have waited until the next major releases, Windows 9 or whatever it's going to be called, to make this significant a change.
    I am in absolute agreement with you on this! Microsoft has advertised 8.1 as an UPDATE and that's what it should be!
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  9. #19


    Texas
    Posts : 1,022
    Windows 8.1


    Quote Originally Posted by fafhrd View Post
    It is not Microsoft's fault that they need to keep moving forwards to avoid stagnation. Like a shark, if they stop moving, they will run out of oxygen and die, and so will the whole ecosystem.

    Yaaa! Post 666!!
    Well, yeah, and the "ecosystem" can be translated to Microsoft customers. At the moment, in my opinion, Windows 7 is the most viable OS around. It's stable, almost anything one wants can be run on it, and I already own as many licenses as I can use (and also a couple copies that have been removed from defunct PCs), and I can install those last two copies on other systems if I wish (only requires a call to Microsoft).

    The only reason I even wanted to upgrade to Windows 8/8.1 is to have something new to play with. And the fact that I decided I needed to upgrade my hardware without having to build a new PC (first system I've bought except for laptops in 15 years) and Windows 8 came on it.

    So, my holding to Windows 7 on my other three computers should equate to holding the shark so it can't move and maybe die. And destroy the ecosystem with it.

    So . . . it would seem to me that the shark (Microsoft) would want to create an environment of trust and mutual respect between itself and the other denizens of the sea (us) in order to keep its ecosystem viable.

    Why is it Microsoft's job to see that older systems are phased out? To obsolete perfectly good computers with a change in OS specs only serves to oversupply our landfills with (you filll in the blank).
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  10. #20


    Portsmouth Hants
    Posts : 772
    Windows 8.1 Pro with Media Center


    The "ecosystem" is the users, customers, OEMs, component fabricators, OS producers, application development houses and IT professionals who advise, install, train and fix things that go wrong. It includes you me and this forum, our children and the developing economies of the rapidly changing 3rd world.

    Much as many folk hate to admit it, Microsoft is the driving force behind the computer industry (the energy that powers the ecosystem) and has been since the early 90s. In this way you are right to say Microsoft is the critical element in the ecosystem, and Microsoft would not exist but for its customers.

    Microsoft is a victim of its own success with XP, and is determined that it will not create another Frankenstein's monster that will not die, yet out-competes all its younger stablemates with sheer tenacity, and reinforces a perceptual model that is intimately tied to the desktop and start menu that most users have grown up with, and find so hard to give up with Windows 8.

    By having a large proportion of Microsoft customers not actually paying money to Microsoft any longer, Microsoft loses money, without losing market share. That threatens the whole computer industry with stagnation. The hardware and component manufacturers also want to continue innovation instead of folding or shrinking through lack of sales.

    In order to break the mould, the current strategy with with Windows 8/8.1 has been to make the system incompatible with older hardware - whether this is a terrible mistake, time will tell. Microsoft is after all making a major foray into manufacturing its own hardware on three fronts - Gaming, Phones, and Mobile Computing, and wants a single codebase for all flavours of its products. That keeps prices down, in theory.

    Microsoft does not force you to change your car for a newer model, even if it still is running well after 10 years of daily use. Nor your TV, mobile phone, GPS or curtains. You change these things because you want new ones, or at least, newer ones than you currently use. Microsoft also does not force you to stop running your Windows 7 or XP machines, but it will not run Windows 7 on a 486SX2/66 with 8MB RAM either. Just as there are people still running Windows 98 to control industrial equipment today, there will still be people running XP and Windows 7 ten years in the future. Microsoft just will not support these users, and neither will the hardware manufactured in 2023.

    It has parallels with the fashion industry - nobody wants last years colours and styles. I'd bet that nobody blames a couturier for making a fashion-conscious someone throw out her old wardrobe.

    The problem with Microsoft, and the perception it creates, is the near monopoly it has in business and home computing. As far as PCs are concerned, Microsoft "owns" the hardware manufacturers. That gives Microsoft the mandate to dictate future developments in computing, and since it wants to extend into parallel markets of phone and mobile computing, to decide what hardware is going to be compatible.

    An environment of trust is laid down in some rules like Product Lifecycle, EULAs, and commitment to support, fix bugs and problems, and for the product to perform as specified. For that trust you pay for a license to use the product in a certain way in compliance with those rules. Believe it or not, you do have consumer rights and can return your license back to Microsoft for a refund if the product does not work as reasonably expected.

    Neither are you committed to send your used hardware for landfill. Your state legislature is committed to increasing recycling of Electronics Guidance for the Texas Recycles Computers Program and there are programs for recycling computers in place Texas Recycles Computers Program.

    What may be obsolete to a user who wants the latest OS on their system may be the best ever gift to a child who has been raised in relative educational poverty. A computer with an internet connection in a village in certain parts of the world compares to having a new public library in your town 100 or so years ago. Don't forget that charities help underprivileged people at home and overseas, where your working but dated computer and OEM or upgraded software will get an extended lease of life and help educate children to live richer lives in the 21st century. Microsoft and the Gates Foundation itself is noted for the charitable works it does globally.
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8.1 upgrade with not so old hardware...is a no go
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