Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums


I am still keeping my documents in c:\docs\ - Am I mad?

  1. #31


    Posts : 1,925
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Well, you are doing a number of customizations that are probably pretty rare for users to do, and as such probably not part of Microsoft's normal test cases. It sounds like the majority of your problem is related to registry entries somehow being remapped, not with the actual relocation of the Documents folder, because that's a fully supported scenario.

    Upgrades are, however, always problematic.. Particularly if you have a lot of customizations. Windows tends to "reset" things to default configurations when it gets confused, or finds things in a state it doesn't know how to deal with. The goal of the install is to make Windows land in a working default configuration, and they tend to be a bit on the conservative side when it comes to resetting configurations if they might create unstable conditions.

    Personally, I always expect upgrades to break things. My SOP is, do the upgrade, and if I find any issues wipe it and reinstall clean. You will spend less time fighting things this way, and you'll get back up to speed in a clean configuration.

    In particular, the way MS does upgrades.. they recreate the folder structure and then copy files from the old folder structure to the new. If you're using junction points, then almost certainly those junctions won't get recreated in the new folder structure, and it will just copy the files from those junctions to the default location.

      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  2. #32


    Sunnyvale, CA USA
    Posts : 283
    Windows 8.1 Pro with Media Center (64-bit)


    I would do clean installs, but I have a large number of program applications (over 400) that take a long time to set up. Audio DAW applications, VST's etc.

    It would take months to set all that up again.

    Here is a small part of the stuff from just one vendor:

    Click image for larger version

    A few years ago when I had far fewer stuff I upgraded from 32-bit Windows XP to 64-bit Windows 7 and it took me several months to get things working. I vowed never to miss an OS upgrade again - so long as 'in-place' upgrades were supported - feeble as they may be.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  3. #33


    Adelaide
    Posts : 1,338
    Windows 7 Ultimate SP1 (64 bit), Linux Mint 17.1 MATE (64 bit)


    Quote Originally Posted by Mystere View Post
    Wait... I'm confused. How exactly is Microsoft *scre**ng* desktop users? They're only "scre**ng" people that disregarding Microsoft's explicit warnings to never do this in anything other than a test environment, and to not use these settings on your production machines.
    How about forcing people to do an "in-place upgrade", instead of providing a "clean install" option (i.e. no ISO)?
    "In-place upgrades" have had a bad reputation for years and have resulted in many posts to Windows help forums.

    Apparently MS' RT upgrade installer is causing some people's devices to BSOD too.
    Microsoft temporarily pulls Windows RT 8.1 update due to 'a situation' | PCWorld

    Quote Originally Posted by Mystere View Post
    In other words, the technique used to move the profile folder is unsupported, has never been supported, and was always "use at your own risk, cause it could completely blow up on you at any moment". And when it does, suddenly it's Microsoft's fault.
    It is MS' fault that after ~12 versions of Windows, they still haven't been able to figure out a way of providing users with that option.

    A so-called "bunch of amateurs working in their garages" can do it, so why can't MS, with its 1000s of professional programers, accomplish it?
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  4. #34


    Posts : 1,925
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by lehnerus2000 View Post
    How about forcing people to do an "in-place upgrade", instead of providing a "clean install" option (i.e. no ISO)?
    "In-place upgrades" have had a bad reputation for years and have resulted in many posts to Windows help forums.
    While I can agree that this policy is not very good, it really isn't relevant, since doing an upgrade any other way (including with an ISO) would have the same problem. You could do a clean install, but that would not deal with the issue either, since that would setup Windows in a default configuration.

    Quote Originally Posted by lehnerus2000 View Post
    Apparently MS' RT upgrade installer is causing some people's devices to BSOD too.
    Microsoft temporarily pulls Windows RT 8.1 update due to 'a situation' | PCWorld
    I agree, upgrades suck. MS has, apparently, issued a disk image to fix this problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by lehnerus2000 View Post
    It is MS' fault that after ~12 versions of Windows, they still haven't been able to figure out a way of providing users with that option.

    A so-called "bunch of amateurs working in their garages" can do it, so why can't MS, with its 1000s of professional programers, accomplish it?
    Apparently they can't, since doing so is causing lots of problems. So that argument doesn't really work, does it?

    Besides, the "Amateurs" are just using the methods Microsoft provided (and explicitly said would break during upgrades).
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  5. #35


    Sunnyvale, CA USA
    Posts : 283
    Windows 8.1 Pro with Media Center (64-bit)


    Quote Originally Posted by Mystere View Post
    ... If you're using junction points, then almost certainly those junctions won't get recreated in the new folder structure, and it will just copy the files from those junctions to the default location.
    Technically, I use symbolic links (mklink /d ...) not junctions, when I relocate folders to other drives.

    I think they were all recreated OK. The Google symlink is still good. Other's I've checked were fine.

    The Windows search settings are still good. TEMP, pagefiles, etc., OK.

    For some reason, just the User shell folders did not remap properly.

    I do not use symbolic links on any of the User Shell Folders - just whatever the 'Locate' tab does/did.

    I think Windows 8.1 did something to the way Libraries work, which I think these things are or were.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  6. #36


    Sunnyvale, CA USA
    Posts : 283
    Windows 8.1 Pro with Media Center (64-bit)


    Another possibility about my remapping problem may have something to do with SATA enumeration.

    I have read somewhere that having multiple SATA drives may affect drive letter rendering due to indeterminate enumeration.

    Perhaps during the upgrade, the drives were enumerated differently and Windows could not find the old 'J' drive because it was lettered otherwise.

    I hope Window 9 does away with Drive letters once and for all.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  7. #37


    Sunnyvale, CA USA
    Posts : 283
    Windows 8.1 Pro with Media Center (64-bit)


    Here it is:

    Disk drive numbers may not correspond as expected to the SATA channel numbers when you install Windows on a computer that has multiple SATA or RAID disks

    Disk drive numbers may not correspond as expected to the SATA channel numbers when you install Windows on a computer that has multiple SATA or RAID disks

    Note the following:

    --------------------


    Status

    Microsoft has confirmed that this problem is due to design limitations in the Microsoft products that are listed in the "Applies to" section. This problem occurs because drives are enumerated in the order in which they are presented to the operation system by the system BIOS.

    Applies to

    • Windows Server 2012 Datacenter
    • Windows Server 2012 Essentials
    • Windows Server 2012 Standard
    • Windows Server 2008 R2 Enterprise
    • Windows Server 2008 R2 Datacenter
    • Windows Server 2008 R2 Standard
    • Windows Server 2008 Enterprise
    • Windows Server 2008 Datacenter
    • Windows Server 2008 Standard
    • Windows 8 Enterprise
    • Windows 8 Pro
    • Windows 8
    • Windows 7 Enterprise
    • Windows 7 Ultimate
    • Windows 7 Professional
    • Windows 7 Home Premium
    • Windows 7 Home Basic
    • Windows Vista Enterprise
    • Windows Vista Ultimate
    • Windows Vista Business
    • Windows Vista Home Premium
    • Windows Vista Home Basic
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  8. #38


    Adelaide
    Posts : 1,338
    Windows 7 Ultimate SP1 (64 bit), Linux Mint 17.1 MATE (64 bit)


    Quote Originally Posted by Mystere View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by lehnerus2000 View Post
    How about forcing people to do an "in-place upgrade", instead of providing a "clean install" option (i.e. no ISO)?
    "In-place upgrades" have had a bad reputation for years and have resulted in many posts to Windows help forums.
    While I can agree that this policy is not very good, it really isn't relevant, since doing an upgrade any other way (including with an ISO) would have the same problem. You could do a clean install, but that would not deal with the issue either, since that would setup Windows in a default configuration.
    If you did a "clean install", you would simply alter the appropriate variable to point to the desired location (at the appropriate step during the installation).

    From what I can tell, the W8.1 installer is hard-coded to look in a certain location and if it can't find the file(s) it wants, it has a "dummy spit".

    Note:
    I have never moved my User Profile.
    I only move the internal folders using one of these methods:
    • The "Location" tab
    • By adding an entry in the Libraries (W7)
    • By creating shortcuts (XP)


    Quote Originally Posted by Mystere View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by lehnerus2000 View Post
    It is MS' fault that after ~12 versions of Windows, they still haven't been able to figure out a way of providing users with that option.

    A so-called "bunch of amateurs working in their garages" can do it, so why can't MS, with its 1000s of professional programers, accomplish it?
    Apparently they can't, since doing so is causing lots of problems. So that argument doesn't really work, does it?

    Besides, the "Amateurs" are just using the methods Microsoft provided (and explicitly said would break during upgrades).
    That was a reference to Linux operating systems.

    Windows "fanboys" on forums (like ZDNet) use that phrase (or variations of that phrase) when they are trying to prove that Windows is superior to Linux.

    As far as I can tell, in Linux you can move almost everything to different locations.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  9. #39


    Posts : 1,925
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by lehnerus2000 View Post
    That was a reference to Linux operating systems.

    Windows "fanboys" on forums (like ZDNet) use that phrase (or variations of that phrase) when they are trying to prove that Windows is superior to Linux.

    As far as I can tell, in Linux you can move almost everything to different locations.
    The Linux "OS" is not created or maintained by amateurs. It's done by paid employees of companies like Red Hat, IBM, HP, and a lot of other big names (including Microsoft, to some extent). What tends to be done by Amateurs is the userland stuff...

    Linux is highly configurable, but at a huge cost in usability, performance, and maintainability.

    Why is it, that after all these years, you *STILL* can't drag and drop things in your typical desktop environment menus? Something you could do in Windows since Windows 95. And why is that applications *STILL* don't have resource forks, with icons and such so that you don't have to manually hook up bitmaps in DE's?

    For every thing you can ding Windows on that Linux has, I can ding Linux for 20x over for what it doesn't have.

    Linux's problem is not that there aren't smart people working on it.. and it's not even that they don't have the resources to make a system that's user friendly and maintainable... the problem is that everyone has to do things their own way, and they end up duplicating the effort... 20 Window managers and a dozen Desktop Environments... if all those man hours were spent on a unified system, Linux would be a force to be reckoned with... instead they spend their time in gridlock, re-implementing each others code because it doesn't use the correct license, or they don't like that something has too much white space, or some other list of silly reasons.

    That's also what keeps Apple and Microsoft from worrying that any significant number of users will abandon their products for Linux.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  10. #40


    Adelaide
    Posts : 1,338
    Windows 7 Ultimate SP1 (64 bit), Linux Mint 17.1 MATE (64 bit)


    Quote Originally Posted by Mystere View Post
    The Linux "OS" is not created or maintained by amateurs. It's done by paid employees of companies like Red Hat, IBM, HP, and a lot of other big names (including Microsoft, to some extent). What tends to be done by Amateurs is the userland stuff...
    I agree that these days, big companies contribute to Linux (even MS).

    Debian develop and fund their distributions on a volunteer basis.
    Some companies like Red Hat and SUSE have commercial versions of Linux.
    I have no idea where Canonical gets its funds from.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mystere View Post
    Linux is highly configurable, but at a huge cost in usability, performance, and maintainability.
    Basic level users (icon clickers) and Expert users (scripting, terminal jockeys) should have no problems using Linux.
    Intermediate level users have the most problems, because they know how to solve problems in their favourite OS, but they are unfamiliar with the Linux Terminal.

    I agree that most of the Linux GUI tools are inferior to Windows equivalents.
    The main issue I have with Linux GUI tools, is the lack of a "Run as root" option in their context menus.

    IMO, File managers are an exception (they are evenly matched).
    Caja features, like multi-level copy/cut/paste operations, tabs and navigation options should be included in Windows Explorer.
    Windows Explorer features, like the variety of Details view columns and tooltips should be included in Caja.

    I'm dubious about your inclusion of performance.
    Linux distros:
    • Will generally run on hardware that has difficulty running Windows
    • Run on more device types than Windows (from remote controls all the way up to super computers)

    One reason is because they usually don't run AV programs.
    On my PC:
    • Linux Mint uses less resources (RAM and HDD space) than W7 does (the OS and programs use less space, than W7 alone).
    • Anecdotally, VMware runs better on Linux, than it does on W7

    A notable exception is Ubuntu 13.04.
    I read quite a few complaints about it being (apparently) bloated and slow.

    I'm also dubious about your inclusion of maintainability.
    Linux distros are very low maintenance.
    One reason is because they aren't "under siege" from malware creators.

    Anecdotally, I can't remember having to reboot Linux Mint (or Ubuntu) more than once, or twice, because of weird behaviour or lock ups.
    I have definitely had to reboot Windows (even W7) more than twice (during the same time period).
    I've only had one Linux update (for Evolution) that caused major difficulties in Ubuntu.
    Since Evolution was a program that I never used I purged it from my OS.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mystere View Post
    Why is it, that after all these years, you *STILL* can't drag and drop things in your typical desktop environment menus? Something you could do in Windows since Windows 95.
    I have no idea what you are trying to describe.
    The only W7 menu I can drag items into is the Start Menu.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mystere View Post
    And why is that applications *STILL* don't have resource forks, with icons and such so that you don't have to manually hook up bitmaps in DE's?
    Again, I have no idea what you are trying to describe.
    I've never had to find and attach icons to programs.

    In the Linux distros I've played with, you can go to a folder (.icons) and find all the icons that the system and most of the programs use.
    Another folder (.themes) has all of the GUI theme files.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mystere View Post
    ... the problem is that everyone has to do things their own way, and they end up duplicating the effort... 20 Window managers and a dozen Desktop Environments... if all those man hours were spent on a unified system, Linux would be a force to be reckoned with... instead they spend their time in gridlock, re-implementing each others code because it doesn't use the correct license, or they don't like that something has too much white space, or some other list of silly reasons.
    I agree that too many options is a problem.

    IMO, that is an inevitable consequence of anyone being able to modify the code and then release it as a new distro (and not having to rely on income from sales to prop them up).
    Try doing that with MS or Apple code and see how long you'll stay out of prison.

    The current state of play is based on history.
    In the 80's, there were other PC/software companies and they lost market share and eventually went out of business (for whatever reason).
    Arguably, if MS hadn't entrenched itself in business and Apple hadn't entrenched themselves in the media/graphics sector, they might both have been wiped out by something else.

    It wasn't that long ago that people would have laughed at you, if you had said that RIM was doomed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mystere View Post
    That's also what keeps Apple and Microsoft from worrying that any significant number of users will abandon their products for Linux.
    Apple users are fashionistas (with the possible exception of media developers).
    IMO, MS was dreaming when they thought that all iPad users would throw their tablets away and swap to Surfaces.
    I also suspect that a large number of Android users hate Apple and MS (no Surface sales to them either)

    MS currently has a lock on the Enterprise market.
    If they keep annoying business with "consumer fluff" and onerous and complicated licensing, they might find customers actively looking for alternatives.

    It was the onerous and complicated licensing restriction on UNIX that lead to GNU and Linux.
    If the UNIX owners hadn't been so obtuse, we may have all ended up running UNIX PCs today.

    BTW, I use Windows for ~96% of my computing (W7= ~95%, XP =~1%, Linux Mint = ~4%).
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst ... 2345 LastLast
I am still keeping my documents in c:\docs\ - Am I mad?
Related Threads
Hello, After losing my Metro tiles to an error, and not being able to restore or refresh my PC, I decided to purge and re-install. I have several HDD's in my computer, and would like to learn how to map documents, music, etc. to my D:\ drive by default, to save room on C:\ for Windows and...
All my docs have suddenly been duplicated. The duplicate files have been renamed with the machine name (Peters_Laptop). I cannot open the original files and get a message "1 Interrupted Action" An unexpected message is keeping you from copying the file. Error code 0x80070490 Element not found. ...
Can't access Docs or Pics in General Support
I have been using the computer with Windows 8 for 7 months now. I'm basically unhappy with it but have been using it. Yesterday I tried to post a pic on an email. A box came up saying "documents.library-ms" is no longer working. Then an additional window saying There is a problem opening this...
Hello all, When I open a PDF through firefox, and chose to open in the TWINUI app it opens the document fine. But when I then open another PDF in the TWINUI it doesn't let me scroll through both PDF docs...it only lets me look at the one I just opened. When I search for the PDF I previously...
Source A Guy
Redmond-based Courier creator Microsoft has joined Facebook at the f8 conference to announce the introduction of Docs, an application and online service for users of the number one social network. Accessible within Facebook from via Docs.com, the new app comes from Microsoft's FUSE Labs and...
Eight Forums Android App Eight Forums IOS App Follow us on Facebook