Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums


How to give permanent UACS permission to an application?

  1. #11


    Posts : 1,925
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    The reason this is so difficult is because otherwise malware programs would simply use it to bypass UAC and make UAC pointless. Granted, Microsoft could automate something that would use your user credentials, but the point is that this isn't something you should be doing frequently. Most apps should not need UAC, and if there was an easy way to bypass it, app vendors would be lazy and they would simply tell you to add it to a whitelist. Then, all apps would be running as administrator, and it would mean that every app could now corrupt the system.

    Microsoft is purposefully trying to force app vendors to write apps that don't require elevated privileges unless absolutely necessary.

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  2. #12


    Sloe Deth, Californicatia
    Posts : 3,908
    Windows 8 Pro with Media Center/Windows 7


    Even when you slide UAC down to the bottom, it is still running. It will not completely shut off like it does in Vistpoop or 7.
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  3. #13


    UK
    Posts : 108
    Windows 8.1 Pro (x64)


    Quote Originally Posted by Mystere View Post
    The reason this is so difficult is because otherwise malware programs would simply use it to bypass UAC and make UAC pointless. Granted, Microsoft could automate something that would use your user credentials, but the point is that this isn't something you should be doing frequently. Most apps should not need UAC, and if there was an easy way to bypass it, app vendors would be lazy and they would simply tell you to add it to a whitelist. Then, all apps would be running as administrator, and it would mean that every app could now corrupt the system.

    Microsoft is purposefully trying to force app vendors to write apps that don't require elevated privileges unless absolutely necessary.
    No I simply dont get this. Why THE HECK cant I have my own whitelist?

    i.e. Why cant I log in as administrator and PERMANENTLY approve what ever I want to approve and everything else would need to be approve manually.

    Why is it better that giving permission to something ten times per day is any safer than given it permission once?

    Whatever happened to "empowering the user" ? It's more like Microsoft despite the user for caring about their own inconvenience, because Big Brother knows better. Idiots.
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  4. #14


    UK
    Posts : 108
    Windows 8.1 Pro (x64)


    P.S. In practice, given the choice between
    A) approve permission every time you open something + good security OR
    B) no approval of anything ever + poor security
    ...that I and most business users I know would settle for the latter!

    But I still dont get why we cant be empowered to have whitelists. Double password protect them if you must but empower us!
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  5. #15


    Posts : 1,925
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by ship69 View Post
    No I simply dont get this. Why THE HECK cant I have my own whitelist?
    I will repeat. Because Application vendors are lazy. If Microsoft provided this functionality, then application vendors would not fix their applications and just tell you to add their app to the white list.

    Most apps do not need elevated privileges to accomplish their tasks, and if they do can be written to request privileges only when they need them (ie just before they make a change that requires them). But, app vendors being lazy, they would rather put the onus on YOU than fix their apps.

    Microsoft is doing this because it's the right thing to do. I know you are upset that you can't get what you want, but in the grand scheme of things, it's more secure for apps to be written correctly.

    Quote Originally Posted by ship69 View Post
    Why is it better that giving permission to something ten times per day is any safer than given it permission once?
    It's not. You should demand that your app vendor fixes their app. Not that the OS vendor break their OS to allow the broken app to not annoy you.

    Quote Originally Posted by ship69 View Post
    Whatever happened to "empowering the user" ? It's more like Microsoft despite the user for caring about their own inconvenience, because Big Brother knows better. Idiots.
    No, the app vendor is the one at fault here. Put the blame where it belongs.

    As an example, your "Everything" application should have written their search indexer as a Windows Service, then it wouldn't need approval. But since they didn't, their failure is your annoyance. Likewise, their search client shouldn't demand admin privs to run. It should only need them when it needs to do something administrative.
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  6. #16


    UK
    Posts : 108
    Windows 8.1 Pro (x64)


    Mystere - I see your point of view. You are coming from the "Big Brother knows best" school.

    I come from a different school.

    Take iTunes for example who won't let me use any of my normal password conventions. Now I profoundly object to this on several levels:

    1. My passwords are all technically bullet-proof.
    e.g. take this one:
    "tzstp#ssw$rd444abc"
    It would take my PC 43 Quintillion years to crack it according to howsecureismypassword.net
    However because it has thee "4" characters in a row Big Brother iTunes (Apple) says it's not secure enough(!)

    2. I like to have my own special naming conventions so that I can easily remember my passwords site by site.
    So why should Apple force me into a special exception that I then need to write down somewhere (insecure!)

    3. Personally on some sites including deliberately choose short low security passwords because I dont give a damn if they get hacked. Screw 'em. The result is that I refuse do use iTunes (for this and several other reasons I may say!)

    I say that the customer should be empowered!

    Click image for larger version

    Yes, the customer should be discouraged from doing something seriously stupid and dangerous, but sometimes the customer WANTS to do something seriously stupid and dangerous. It's a free country, and yes, I am prepared to spill blood to keep it that way. For inspiration checkout this:

    Yes Jeb Corliss will probably kill himself doing it but... WTF - what a way to go!
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  7. #17


    Posts : 1,925
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by ship69 View Post
    Mystere - I see your point of view. You are coming from the "Big Brother knows best" school.
    This has nothing to do with Big Brother. Microsoft is doing this as leverage to make app vendors write apps correctly, not to control your behavior. If you don't like it, turn off UAC (but that will have other consequences).

    The fact of the matter is, I like what Microsoft is doing. So here's the question. If the customer is always right, which customer is right? I say Microsoft should do what they're doing. You say they should do something different. It can't be both ways, because this is a fundamentally mutually exclusive condition.

    "The customer is always right" only works in the service industry, not with products. Because people will always have different opinions of how products should be designed.

    Regarding your password issues with iTunes, I'm not happy with their choices either. However, they are doing this because they have had a large number of break-ins due to weak passwords, and subsequent fraud. They have to protect their financial interests.

    By the way, those password strength checkers give you a false sense of security. They do not take dictionary attacks into account. Many passwords that on the surface seem secure are not because they have common patterns to them which make them easier to crack. In your example, for instance, it includes several common patterns. (repeating characters and sequential characters.. ie 444 and abc). This reduces the strength of the password significantly (although in your case it's still pretty secure, it's just not as secure as those password strength tools tell you).

    Quote Originally Posted by ship69 View Post
    Yes, the customer should be discouraged from doing something seriously stupid and dangerous, but sometimes the customer WANTS to do something seriously stupid and dangerous. It's a free country
    Yes, but you are forgetting that in many cases, people's "stupidity" can cost others. In the case of iTunes, using weak passwords can cost Apple millions of dollars in fraud. In the case of using a weak password on an email account (say yahoo or Hotmail) then if that is compromised spammers can use that to spam millions of people, costing Hotmail and those users real money. Your actions in many cases have direct affect on others.

    So yes, by all means, if your actions only affect you.. be as stupid as you want. But if they affect others, then I think its reasonable to expect a certain level requirements on the user.
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  8. #18


    UK
    Posts : 108
    Windows 8.1 Pro (x64)


    Quote Originally Posted by Mystere View Post

    This has nothing to do with Big Brother. Microsoft is doing this as leverage to make app vendors write apps correctly, not to control your behavior. If you don't like it, turn off UAC (but that will have other consequences).

    The fact of the matter is, I like what Microsoft is doing. So here's the question. If the customer is always right, which customer is right? I say Microsoft should do what they're doing. You say they should do something different. It can't be both ways, because this is a fundamentally mutually exclusive condition.
    Yes, I do accept most of your points... however no, this is NOT a mutually exclusive situation!

    To get clear, I am very happy for you (if you so choose) to keep manually saying "yes" to approve the exact same piece of software to run if that's what you want to do. I have no problem with that.

    At present Microsoft have already given us the options switching the whole (hateful) UAC system off.

    All I ask for is a third option which is that with enough effort, that I be allowed think carefully and to give PERMANENT permission for something to run. Build a while new sub-system of necessary but don't force us to have to keep approving the same thing again and again and again. I totally disagree with you about how having to approve something multiple times is any more secure.

    Sorry but to me being forced to approve something multiple times is extremely dangerous because one then gets into the habit of approving popup boxes without properly reading them each time. This is WAY more dangerous!

    In the end it's about personal preference and convenience.

    And I do NOT want to stop all approvals. I want to approve everything that opens, but I only want to approve it once. In the real world what legal contract are you asked to sign again and again and again multiple times per day. Frankly it's just nuts.

    To be fair, perhaps is something looks seriously dangerous I should be forced to approve it again once or twice... but certainly multiple times per day, not FOREVER.

    So, no, this is not a mutually exclusive situation, it is about building intelligent options for the informed user into the system.

    And I personally believe it is completely intelligent to want to approve things only ONCE.
    Last edited by ship69; 21 Oct 2013 at 07:32.
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How to give permanent UACS permission to an application?
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