Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums


Are computers outdating themselves in the long run?

  1. #11


    Madrid, Spain
    Posts : 228
    Windows 8.1 x64


    My recently dead old laptop run Windows same fast as this one, which is, according to all benchmarks, around three times (300%) faster.

    I took very long before keeping this one, I tried many, some much more expensive, and to run normal stuff on W8 I could never feel any difference, and sometimes I noticed they were slower.

    And this is a very cheap laptop. I don't buy more expensive one for that reason. Otherwise I really would spend more money.

    It's the same with phones.

    I have the Galaxy S2. I recently tried S4 and S3 and I didn't notice any improvement in performance in anything I do. I mean nothing, zero improvement in speed, lag, etc. I even purchased an S3 finally for the joy of the change and better screen and camera, but ended up returning it as it was really not worth the difference to spend 300€ for almost nothing better. Even some worse things that I do care about, such as the difficulty to reach the buttons and corners of the screen or a worse audio quality.

    Windows and Android seem to be the reason why better hardware is not so noticeable.

      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  2. #12


    Posts : 153
    Windows 8, Kali


    I don't think the brain would be slow. It can store terabytes of data and process thousands of input signals every second and send out thousands of signals every second. The only reason we aren't super humans is because we can't allocate those resources. Think about voice recognition. Even the most advanced computers aren't as good as humans, and the amount of raw data we process from our eyes is astounding. We just can't allocate our resources to another task.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  3. #13


    Orbiting the Moon
    Posts : 2,975
    Windows 10 x64


    Quote Originally Posted by lehnerus2000 View Post
    I think software isn't keeping up with hardware.

    I regularly sit in front of my PC wondering why some process is taking so long.
    When I check my hardware monitors, I see that my PC is using basically no RAM (~12.5%) and no CPU cycles (~10%).
    I very much agree.

    There are many examples and cases to see.

    In short:
    The software gets bloated.

    One random example office(es) software: "Office 20XX whatever" is meant for the same thing: making text documents, presentations, charts , spreadsheets.... We have newer formats, better features but in the integrity the same thing was performed by Office 1997 and you see the compared requirements of the two.

    Speed is also lost with too much 'eyecandy' fancy things + Stardocks(es) running in the background.

    Newer OSes have more services, the customer/user is treated better, like in a 7-star hotel...
    Going back to more speed is always possible but then the GUI look, services and overall features will have to suffer again.

    Good to think about:
    Compared with older versions newer software is in general better but improvements on stability and features will not be beneficial for the speed.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  4. #14


    Sloe Deth, Californicatia
    Posts : 3,908
    Windows 8 Pro with Media Center/Windows 7


    The speed of 0's and 1's flipping and flopping through your processor and memory is the speed of LIGHT. Unfortunately, there is this thing called "Resistance" which slows that speed down, so when electricity flows through a circuit, we are limited by the actual construction of the CPU, Ram, and Motherboard, and all of the components on the MB.

    Another word for "Resistance" is LATENCY - It takes 79.2 Nanoseconds for the bits to get from the Input of my Ram to the Output- And that's just my Ram according to my benchmark program.

    So, our stuff gets HOT. P = IR where I is the speed of light and R is the amount of resistance of the circuit. This would be a Thevenization of all our PCs. New CPUS are made with lower and lower latency, but the factor is always TIME. And I believe TIME is always relevant to the observer.

    The CPU is tossing Bits inside of itself at trhe speed of light, the the material of which the CPU is made slows it down. So the research always has to be about creating a CPU with lower and lower amounts of time it needs for a bit to get from one side to another. If the Bit was flying through space, it is always travelling at the speed of light.

    So in the future the research would be finding a particle that can travel faster than light, and building a system that can use it to transfer Data. The Enterprise D has a Computer Core that is FTL:

    Information about the U.S.S. Enterprise NCC-1701-D

    In the dreams of the guys who thought it up. But as long as we got guys around like Stephen Hawking who looks at that Warp Core Bucket and says "I'm Working on That" - There is a chance this kind of tech can be developed someday.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  5. #15


    Hafnarfjrur IS
    Posts : 4,376
    Linux Centos 7, W8.1, W7, W2K3 Server W10


    Quote Originally Posted by Hopachi View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by lehnerus2000 View Post
    I think software isn't keeping up with hardware.

    I regularly sit in front of my PC wondering why some process is taking so long.
    When I check my hardware monitors, I see that my PC is using basically no RAM (~12.5%) and no CPU cycles (~10%).
    I very much agree.

    There are many examples and cases to see.

    In short:
    The software gets bloated.

    One random example office(es) software: "Office 20XX whatever" is meant for the same thing: making text documents, presentations, charts , spreadsheets.... We have newer formats, better features but in the integrity the same thing was performed by Office 1997 and you see the compared requirements of the two.

    Speed is also lost with too much 'eyecandy' fancy things + Stardocks(es) running in the background.

    Newer OSes have more services, the customer/user is treated better, like in a 7-star hotel...
    Going back to more speed is always possible but then the GUI look, services and overall features will have to suffer again.

    Good to think about:
    Compared with older versions newer software is in general better but improvements on stability and features will not be beneficial for the speed.
    Hi there

    Software often gets over bloated -- prime examples are NERO(used to be the "De facto" standard in its class -- and then the went Bonkers with it adding every possible feature that you absolutely did NOT want or NEED.

    Photoshop was another -- probably reached the Zenith with release 7 now -- with CS6 I have so many filters and effects that I can't possibly ever have the time to learn or use (and I do some Pro photo gigs from time to time). - Would have been MUCH better to have the base price of CS6 lower and then pay extra for some of these really specialized filters and effects.

    Another issue is also the software get hideously "IDIOT PROOF" so if something does go wrong you have ZERO chance of fixing it. I can see some advantages in things like 1-click installs but I think there also ought to be an "Expert mode" which works more in a traditional manner.

    For example Acronis has mucked around with what was a much better GUI in the old Acronis for Workstation -- now the newer versions are so dumbed down it's really hard to to actually come up with the choices you want. So we are screwed at both ends -- over bloat and over simplification.

    A lot of people should recognize "If it ain't broke don't fix it". Mind you some people deliberately design bug and "planned obsolescence" into their products so that you are forced to pay for the newer versions.

    Cheers
    jimbo
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  6. #16


    BELGIUM
    Posts : 503
    WINDOWS 8.1 x64


    "Mind you some people deliberately design bug and "planned obsolescence" into their products so that you are forced to pay for the newer versions."

    Hehe Jimbo,


    i get that feeling too......There are several software programs on my PC (that everyone else also has) that gets updated every week. But is this really necessary?

    Jeff
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  7. #17


    Adelaide
    Posts : 1,338
    Windows 7 Ultimate SP1 (64 bit), Linux Mint 17.1 MATE (64 bit)


    My point was that a lot of software doesn't even try to use the available resources on my PC.

    If my processor is only using 10% of its available cycles, 90% are doing nothing.
    If I'm only using 12.5% of my RAM, 87.5% is doing nothing.

    In the "old days" software bloat could be fixed by getting more RAM and/or a more powerful CPU.
    In the cases I'm referring to, it would make no difference (other than even less CPU cycles and RAM would be utilised).
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  8. #18


    BELGIUM
    Posts : 503
    WINDOWS 8.1 x64


    Well Lehnerus,

    Computers are like cars. I can drive with a small Toyota from Miami to Orlando and someone does this with a Porsche. Thanks to the speed limit and traffic the Porsche will not get faster in Orlando.

    Computers now do not have to use a lot of Ram to give good performance, thanks for that.

    So it would be nice using only as much Ram as you mention, using only 10% of the CPU, but at much higher speed please.

    Jeff
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  9. #19


    Orbiting the Moon
    Posts : 2,975
    Windows 10 x64


    Quote Originally Posted by lehnerus2000 View Post
    My point was that a lot of software doesn't even try to use the available resources on my PC.

    If my processor is only using 10% of its available cycles, 90% are doing nothing.
    If I'm only using 12.5% of my RAM, 87.5% is doing nothing.

    In the "old days" software bloat could be fixed by getting more RAM and/or a more powerful CPU.
    In the cases I'm referring to, it would make no difference (other than even less CPU cycles and RAM would be utilised).
    This is right. But look around why:

    For more RAM usage: all x64 software not just the OS...

    Back in the days you upgraded the RAM, I think most of us were with 32bit OSes and machines (maybe even 16bit in some cases depending of how old those old days are).
    The CPU matched well with the software. Over time, 16 bit was very much in the minority being run from emulators and DOS VM's. You run something like XP... every upgrade is felt.
    You upgrade to 1GB RAM -> 2GB RAM very good -> 4GB RAM is the limit for 32bit and some software cannot use more than 2GB (see around XP).
    When they introduced 32bit to the public, a big bang of 32bit software was made in the years to follow (Win95 -> Win98).
    I was a kid and I how I would say it: all of a sudden no DOS games made anymore...

    So now what? The transition to 64bit is not the same as from 16 to 32bit;
    Because MOST software still is 32bit and will never use over 2-4GB of RAM even if you have 64GB.

    The fact that syswow64 made such an easy transition, extending the old x86, and most developers took advantage of this.
    I can even say that it looks like all of them got lazy: "the x86 version runs, no need for a x64 one".
    What would this mean in the old days: "the DOS version runs, no need for a newer one" (you have 128MB RAM good because we only use 64k like 0.06MB maybe extending to 0.6MB... very good). But the issue was fixed in the old days!
    So now, how do you want more improvement to the new 64bit platform if they all cling back to the older one that still works...

    I underlined the word runs because the software just runs... but with the same speed as on the original x86.
    There are programs that are fully x64 and there are developers who make a lot of improvement but they are still not a majority.

    It's obvious that the transition from 32bit to 64bit is way slower than from 16bit to 32bit.
    Then why do we need better hardware that already reached limits? Software improvement needs to come first... and not over bloating with features that increase file-sizes but improving the core so that it takes advantage of the new hardware and cpu instruction sets.

    If we think all this is going well then we don't need to complain about slow computers but just accept what we got.
    The improvement that x64 gives on speed is a small one but it's a step that needs to be done for any next improvement.
    Last edited by Hopachi; 09 Aug 2013 at 06:43.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  10. #20


    BELGIUM
    Posts : 503
    WINDOWS 8.1 x64


    hi Hopachi,

    good explained, in fact you are right


    Jeff
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

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Are computers outdating themselves in the long run?
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