Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums


Windows 8.1 refuses to sleep

  1. #1321


    Posts : 286
    W8.1 Pro 64


    I should also mention that other than a lot of knowledge from some very smart folks, the real nugget I've gleaned from this entire thread has been StandbyHelper. Unless you're a real purist, it for all practical purposes gives your Windows 8.1 device a reliable sleep function that persists through updates, new drivers, etc. Really made this thread a worthwhile investment of the time.

      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  2. #1322


    Texas
    Posts : 1,022
    Windows 8.1


    Quote Originally Posted by NCguy View Post
    The NCguy manifesto.

    ok let's say that there technically isn't a problem with 8.1 sleep like some Windows 8. 1 purists have claimed. Well step back and ask yourself how Microsoft could have developed code that is so intolerant that without absolute ongoing perfection from every 3rd party hardware and software component the Windows 8.1 sleep component fails. I contend that while this Microsoft code might "technically" be sound if all the stars are in absolute perfect ongoing alignment, that most would agree that any code that is this intolerant is for all "practical purposes" badly broken.

    If what I'm saying isn't true than how does StandbyHelper manage to do the job that Windows 8 sleep was designed to do but it does it reliably for almost all hardware and software configurations? Clearly it's possible and could be achieved if it were actually a Microsoft priority.
    This thought has been running through my mind for awhile now, but I haven't thought on it long enough to put into words yet. Let's take it a tad bit further . . . Through the years, beginning with around Windows 3.1 (3.0 was MS's learning child), things began to look up for what was then the IBM/Intel hardware. Windows 95 and Windows 98 looked pretty good; and then came Windows ME. This is where Microsoft started to take some very big and dangerous steps. As long as Windows ME was put on "current" hardware, it worked fantastically. However, when folks began to upgrade their hardware, Windows ME failed miserably.

    I don't know when Microsoft began using beta testers, but one day, I got an email asking me if I wanted to beta test MSN. Included in that beta test was Outlook. I didn't get the "XP", but I did get an email for Windows Vista. There were several groups of testers; TAP and Corporations were a couple, and then there were "us". "Us" consisted of a wide cross section of computer users; both power users and novices and all types in between. MS arbitrarily decided when to release Vista and although we beta testers told them it wasn't ready for release, we weren't heard!

    I got the "call" for Windows 7 too, and we got as close to "dogfood" as it gets in the beginning. MS listened a little better this time and by the time Windows 7 RTM'd, it was almost ready, although it required a couple of service packs before it became "the next XP".

    And then, the worst thing that could ever happen to a company did . . . Synofsky took over the Windows Team and "fired" all of those beta testers who worked on Windows 7 and Vista! We were no longer necessary, he said. Well, I beg to differ!

    That large cross-section of beta testers are very much necessary. Sure there are commercial entities that need to beta test, but the "public at large" needs to test too, if you want to put an operating system through almost every usage it will ever see. Look at the huge diversity of systems in just this thread alone and I've proven my point.

    I don't think Microsoft understands that beta testers are a very necessary part of building a new Operating system. They knew it once, before Synofsky but I'm not sure they'll ever understand what they threw away.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  3. #1323


    Posts : 286
    W8.1 Pro 64


    Quote Originally Posted by Wynona View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by NCguy View Post
    The NCguy manifesto.

    ok let's say that there technically isn't a problem with 8.1 sleep like some Windows 8. 1 purists have claimed. Well step back and ask yourself how Microsoft could have developed code that is so intolerant that without absolute ongoing perfection from every 3rd party hardware and software component the Windows 8.1 sleep component fails. I contend that while this Microsoft code might "technically" be sound if all the stars are in absolute perfect ongoing alignment, that most would agree that any code that is this intolerant is for all "practical purposes" badly broken.

    If what I'm saying isn't true than how does StandbyHelper manage to do the job that Windows 8 sleep was designed to do but it does it reliably for almost all hardware and software configurations? Clearly it's possible and could be achieved if it were actually a Microsoft priority.
    This thought has been running through my mind for awhile now, but I haven't thought on it long enough to put into words yet. Let's take it a tad bit further . . . Through the years, beginning with around Windows 3.1 (3.0 was MS's learning child), things began to look up for what was then the IBM/Intel hardware. Windows 95 and Windows 98 looked pretty good; and then came Windows ME. This is where Microsoft started to take some very big and dangerous steps. As long as Windows ME was put on "current" hardware, it worked fantastically. However, when folks began to upgrade their hardware, Windows ME failed miserably.

    I don't know when Microsoft began using beta testers, but one day, I got an email asking me if I wanted to beta test MSN. Included in that beta test was Outlook. I didn't get the "XP", but I did get an email for Windows Vista. There were several groups of testers; TAP and Corporations were a couple, and then there were "us". "Us" consisted of a wide cross section of computer users; both power users and novices and all types in between. MS arbitrarily decided when to release Vista and although we beta testers told them it wasn't ready for release, we weren't heard!

    I got the "call" for Windows 7 too, and we got as close to "dogfood" as it gets in the beginning. MS listened a little better this time and by the time Windows 7 RTM'd, it was almost ready, although it required a couple of service packs before it became "the next XP".

    And then, the worst thing that could ever happen to a company did . . . Synofsky took over the Windows Team and "fired" all of those beta testers who worked on Windows 7 and Vista! We were no longer necessary, he said. Well, I beg to differ!

    That large cross-section of beta testers are very much necessary. Sure there are commercial entities that need to beta test, but the "public at large" needs to test too, if you want to put an operating system through almost every usage it will ever see. Look at the huge diversity of systems in just this thread alone and I've proven my point.

    I don't think Microsoft understands that beta testers are a very necessary part of building a new Operating system. They knew it once, before Synofsky but I'm not sure they'll ever understand what they threw away.
    I completely agree with you regarding the Synofsky development methodology assessment.

    But, that said, I get the impression that StandbyHelper is a pretty simple app. I think something is architecturally hosed within Windows 8 when such a simple piece of code (StandbyHelper) works so reliably and the windows code does not. I get the impression now that there really is something architecturally wrong when the code in windows is so inflexible that it fails to work in so many instances. I think it goes beyond beta testing in this case and I'm not optimistic that it will ever be as tolerant as it was in Windows 7. That said I'm ok with StandbyHelper as long as it continues to be compatible.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  4. #1324


    Funny thing is StandbyHelper didn't work here!!

    And if we are talking of reliability, what about the almost immediate sleep that results from pressing a button or involving direct code to do it? This doesn't seem to mess the system up so it appears as if this 8.1 power management is trying to be more clever and it is not sleeping because some obscure factor is holding it up. Win 8 was OK so the tweaking for 8.1 looks like it is just too stringent.

    But what REALLY gets my goat, MS damn well knows what changes were made between 8 and 8.1 so they must know what this problem is or they could certainly find out with logging implemented. They must do this in development so they could do it now on a few of these recalcitrant systems. Some MS staff must be laughing like drains reading all our headless chook ramblings.

    And don't slag Vista SP2. My wife's machine has been running it for many years without a hiccup. It even sorted itself out when I moved the C: drive to a new motherboard! AND, it sleeps reliably!!!!!!!!!
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  5. #1325


    Posts : 1
    Winodws 8.1


    Windows 8 or 8.1 provodes feature for sleep, not for hybernet. To know more about winodws click here . Windows 9 Release Date, Download, Wallpapers And News
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  6. #1326


    Can anyone remember (John?) what the executable for the Power service is called? I had it once but now can't find it! I had in mind seeing whether one could swap the win 8 file in as an experiment. I can re-image if it turns to custard!!
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  7. #1327


    Quote Originally Posted by ankit1511 View Post
    Windows 8 or 8.1 provodes feature for sleep, not for hybernet. To know more about winodws click here . Windows 9 Release Date, Download, Wallpapers And News
    Welcome to Windows Eight Forums, ankit1511.

    What do you mean by hybernet?
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  8. #1328


    Texas
    Posts : 1,022
    Windows 8.1


    Quote Originally Posted by NCguy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Wynona View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by NCguy View Post
    The NCguy manifesto.

    ok let's say that there technically isn't a problem with 8.1 sleep like some Windows 8. 1 purists have claimed. Well step back and ask yourself how Microsoft could have developed code that is so intolerant that without absolute ongoing perfection from every 3rd party hardware and software component the Windows 8.1 sleep component fails. I contend that while this Microsoft code might "technically" be sound if all the stars are in absolute perfect ongoing alignment, that most would agree that any code that is this intolerant is for all "practical purposes" badly broken.

    If what I'm saying isn't true than how does StandbyHelper manage to do the job that Windows 8 sleep was designed to do but it does it reliably for almost all hardware and software configurations? Clearly it's possible and could be achieved if it were actually a Microsoft priority.
    This thought has been running through my mind for awhile now, but I haven't thought on it long enough to put into words yet. Let's take it a tad bit further . . . Through the years, beginning with around Windows 3.1 (3.0 was MS's learning child), things began to look up for what was then the IBM/Intel hardware. Windows 95 and Windows 98 looked pretty good; and then came Windows ME. This is where Microsoft started to take some very big and dangerous steps. As long as Windows ME was put on "current" hardware, it worked fantastically. However, when folks began to upgrade their hardware, Windows ME failed miserably.

    . . .

    I don't think Microsoft understands that beta testers are a very necessary part of building a new Operating system. They knew it once, before Synofsky but I'm not sure they'll ever understand what they threw away.
    I completely agree with you regarding the Synofsky development methodology assessment.

    But, that said, I get the impression that StandbyHelper is a pretty simple app. I think something is architecturally hosed within Windows 8 when such a simple piece of code (StandbyHelper) works so reliably and the windows code does not. I get the impression now that there really is something architecturally wrong when the code in windows is so inflexible that it fails to work in so many instances. I think it goes beyond beta testing in this case and I'm not optimistic that it will ever be as tolerant as it was in Windows 7. That said I'm ok with StandbyHelper as long as it continues to be compatible.
    I think I ranted so much that the point I was trying to make kinda got lost in the shuffle. What I was trying to say is that if that wide cross-section of, and also the many experienced, beta testers that had tested previous versions of Windows had been allowed to test Windows 8, most likely the sleep issue would have been uncovered and possibly would have been dealt with.

    Although my computer sleeps after the December update, Standby Helper is such an elegant solution that seems to work every time, proves the point that Microsoft dropped the ball, but the author of this solution picked it up and ran with it.

    Maybe Microsoft should contact this author, buy the solution he/she's giving away freely and include it in Windows 8.1.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  9. #1329


    Texas
    Posts : 1,022
    Windows 8.1


    Quote Originally Posted by linw View Post
    And don't slag Vista SP2. My wife's machine has been running it for many years without a hiccup. It even sorted itself out when I moved the C: drive to a new motherboard! AND, it sleeps reliably!!!!!!!!!
    Yep, and it worked reliably on one of the machines I tested it on too, Lin. However, like Windows 8.1's sleep issue, Vista had issues the beta testers discovered that Microsoft refused to fix before RTM.

    In fact, every operating system MS has built works reliably for the vast majority of users but doesn't work all that well for some.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  10. #1330


    Texas
    Posts : 1,022
    Windows 8.1


    Quote Originally Posted by HippsieGypsie View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ankit1511 View Post
    Windows 8 or 8.1 provodes feature for sleep, not for hybernet. To know more about winodws click here . Windows 9 Release Date, Download, Wallpapers And News
    Welcome to Windows Eight Forums, ankit1511.

    What do you mean by hybernet?
    I think it was just a misspelling of hypernate, Hippsie.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

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