What's the Point of Start Menu for NON Touch Screen PC?

Dirty Butter

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I'm struggling to see the purpose of the Metro Start Screen unless the computer has a touch screen. Other than the Apps and the few Live tiles - programs I've installed open on the regular desktop when I click on the tile. Am I doing something wrong, or is that the way it should be?
 

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That's what Microsoft wanted for Windows 8 and it doesn't work for most of us. To each their own, if they like the Modern UI. There are 3rd party alternatives to return the Start Menu and button to the Desktop, such as Start8. There a bunch of them, some are free, some are not.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8 Pro Pack
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
It is working correctly. Its a Menu to all your programs, either Metro or Desktop. To get full advantage you can arrange the tiles as you want them. It replaces the Start Menu from previous Windows.

Jim :cool:
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 7 HP 64bit, Windows 8.1 Pro w/Media Center 64BIT
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    ASUS - Home Built
    CPU
    AMD Phenom II X6 1100T
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    ASUS M5A99X EVO
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    Crucial Balistic DDR-3 1866 CL 9 (8 GB)
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    Brother HL-2170W Laser Printer,
    Epson V300 Scanner
I'm using the Classic Shell Start program on the Desktop, which makes the Desktop fully functional for me. But my quandary is what do I miss if I never go look at the Metro screen at all? I don't mind it being there, lurking behind the scenes, but what does Microsoft really expect me to do with it if my equipment isn't touch?
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1.1
    Computer type
    Laptop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Samsung Ultrabook
    CPU
    AMD A6-4400M 2.70 GHz
    Memory
    6GB
    Graphics Card(s)
    Radeon HD
    Sound Card
    Realtek HD
    Screen Resolution
    1600x900
    Hard Drives
    465GB plus 3TB Seagate External with File History
    Mouse
    Synaptics Touchpad 7.5
    Internet Speed
    300 Mbps
    Antivirus
    Charter Security Suite
I've always hidden all shortcuts on the desktop and kept what I wanted pinned to the taskbar, so I've always been able to arrange programs the way I wanted. I just don't "get" it.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1.1
    Computer type
    Laptop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Samsung Ultrabook
    CPU
    AMD A6-4400M 2.70 GHz
    Memory
    6GB
    Graphics Card(s)
    Radeon HD
    Sound Card
    Realtek HD
    Screen Resolution
    1600x900
    Hard Drives
    465GB plus 3TB Seagate External with File History
    Mouse
    Synaptics Touchpad 7.5
    Internet Speed
    300 Mbps
    Antivirus
    Charter Security Suite
The Start Screen was designed for a dual purpose and designed to work with touch and keyboard/mouse. MS's vision is for the Metro apps to run on phones, tablets and desktops with the same basic GUI so if a person likes using their phone or table to access something, then they can still do the same on a desktop. On the desktop they just added access to desktop programs using the same GUI. Just a simple interface to the programs or apps you want in one place. If you never want to use a Metro app then you can use a 3rd party Start Menu like you are doing or just remove the Metro apps from the Start Screen and use it just for desktop programs.

Jim :cool:
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 7 HP 64bit, Windows 8.1 Pro w/Media Center 64BIT
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    ASUS - Home Built
    CPU
    AMD Phenom II X6 1100T
    Motherboard
    ASUS M5A99X EVO
    Memory
    Crucial Balistic DDR-3 1866 CL 9 (8 GB)
    Graphics Card(s)
    MSI R6850 Cyclone IGD5 PE
    Sound Card
    On Chip
    Monitor(s) Displays
    ASUS VE258Q 25" LED with DVI-HDMI-DisplayPort
    Screen Resolution
    1920 x 1080
    Hard Drives
    Two WD Cavier Black 2TB Sata 6gbs
    WD My Book Essential 2TB USB 3.0
    PSU
    Seasonic X650 80 Plus GOLD Modular
    Case
    Corsair 400R
    Cooling
    Antec Kuhler H2O 620, Two 120mm and four 140mm
    Keyboard
    AVS Gear Blue LED Backlight
    Mouse
    Logitech Marble Mouse USB, Logitech Precision Game Pad
    Internet Speed
    15MB
    Antivirus
    NIS, Malwarebytes Premium 2
    Other Info
    APC UPS ES 750, Netgear WNR3500L Gigabit & Wireless N Router with SamKnows Test Program,
    Motorola SB6120 Gigabit Cable Modem.
    Brother HL-2170W Laser Printer,
    Epson V300 Scanner
The metro screen is designed to deal with this problem:

menu95.gif

In effect, the start menu has a finite fixed height. Once you get a certain number of items, then you have to figure out what to do... Microsoft has tried numerous things, such as cascading (as in the picture), scrolling (as in later versions of windows).. they changed it to be a different kind of scrolling in Windows Vista, which solved the infinite scroll problem to some degree, but the problem still existed for pinned start menu shortcuts. In addition, many people didn't really understand that you could scroll the Vista/7 start menu.

Finally, menus require fine grained motor skills to navigate. If you have a disability.. are old, have parkinsons, or some other situation that doesn't give you good coordination, using menus is very difficult.

All these things are address in the Start menu, plus making it more usable for touch based devices.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro
    CPU
    Intel i7 3770K
    Motherboard
    Gigabyte Z77X-UD4 TH
    Memory
    16GB DDR3 1600
    Graphics Card(s)
    nVidia GTX 650
    Sound Card
    Onboard Audio
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Auria 27" IPS + 2x Samsung 23"
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    2560x1440 + 2x 2048x1152
    Hard Drives
    Corsair m4 256GB, 2 WD 2TB drives
    Case
    Antec SOLO II
    Keyboard
    Microsoft Natural Ergonomic Keyboard 4000
    Mouse
    Logitech MX
Finally, menus require fine grained motor skills to navigate. If you have a disability.. are old, have parkinsons, or some other situation that doesn't give you good coordination, using menus is very difficult.

The high contrast themes are also helpful to those with certain disabilities.. MS don't keep flipping everybody into them.


The real reason is to get their existing user base into their online services. MS is on a mission to monetise the consumers.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    7/8/ubuntu/Linux Deepin
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
I see the purpose of getting a common interface for various touch devices, and I'm happy with 8 now that I'm finally used to it.

But I won't be spending any money on APPS, nor will I be connecting everything to a Microsoft account login! Would be nice if there were some way to filter the store so ONLY free apps showed - not that I would be using very many of them, either!
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1.1
    Computer type
    Laptop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Samsung Ultrabook
    CPU
    AMD A6-4400M 2.70 GHz
    Memory
    6GB
    Graphics Card(s)
    Radeon HD
    Sound Card
    Realtek HD
    Screen Resolution
    1600x900
    Hard Drives
    465GB plus 3TB Seagate External with File History
    Mouse
    Synaptics Touchpad 7.5
    Internet Speed
    300 Mbps
    Antivirus
    Charter Security Suite
The metro screen is designed to deal with this problem:

That's only if you see it as a problem.

Most (and quite rightly, imo) do not.


Wenda.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 'Ultimate' RTM 64 bit (Pro/WMC).
    Computer type
    Laptop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Acer AS8951G 'Desktop Replacement'.
    CPU
    i7-2670QM@2.2/3.1Ghz.
    Motherboard
    Acer
    Memory
    8GB@1366Mhz.
    Graphics Card(s)
    GeForce GT555M 2GB DDR3
    Sound Card
    Realtek HD w/Dolby 5.1 surround.
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Built-in. Non-touch.
    Screen Resolution
    18/4" 1920x1080 full-HD.
    Hard Drives
    Toshiba 750GBx2 internal. 1x2TB, 2x640GB, 1x500GB external.
    PSU
    Stock.
    Case
    Laptop.
    Cooling
    Stock.
    Keyboard
    Full 101-key
    Mouse
    USB cordless.
    Browser
    IE11, Firefox, Tor.
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender, MalwareBytes Pro.
    Other Info
    BD-ROM drive.
I'm struggling to see the purpose of the Metro Start Screen unless the computer has a touch screen. Other than the Apps and the few Live tiles - programs I've installed open on the regular desktop when I click on the tile. Am I doing something wrong, or is that the way it should be?

The purpose is consistency with their mobile devices, and the motivation for their mobile devices was to be different than Apple.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro with Media Center
Finally, menus require fine grained motor skills to navigate. If you have a disability.. are old, have parkinsons, or some other situation that doesn't give you good coordination, using menus is very difficult.

And if you don't, unless you're simply consuming content, using tiles along with the Full Screen interface is very tedious.

For content creation, the entire modern interface and the use of apps is absolutely horrid. That is what the desktop(and the true Start Button) is for. Have no fear, people will continue to use third-party programs to get Windows 8.x to work the way it is supposed to.

When Microsoft finally comes to Jesus and realizes that both interfaces are equally valid, and if kept separated from each other will work great, they'll start to finally have something. Simply provide the ability to run apps as chromed windows off the desktop.

But right now, they can't seem to understand the simple things like Modern Interface simply being a content consumption interface. You don't use a television to construct television programs(nod to Wenda), and you don't use Modern, or apps, to construct content.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 7 on the desktop, Windows 8 Surface Pro mobile
How, exactly, is it "horrid"?

It's funny, but every time I ask this question of the start screen haters, all they can do is mumble something about not being designed for a keyboard and mouse, which is patently untrue.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro
    CPU
    Intel i7 3770K
    Motherboard
    Gigabyte Z77X-UD4 TH
    Memory
    16GB DDR3 1600
    Graphics Card(s)
    nVidia GTX 650
    Sound Card
    Onboard Audio
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Auria 27" IPS + 2x Samsung 23"
    Screen Resolution
    2560x1440 + 2x 2048x1152
    Hard Drives
    Corsair m4 256GB, 2 WD 2TB drives
    Case
    Antec SOLO II
    Keyboard
    Microsoft Natural Ergonomic Keyboard 4000
    Mouse
    Logitech MX
the thing I found is you can argue with logic. you can answer any of their questions. but when you ask them why they hate it, it comes down to, "but, but but... I hate it!"
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro
Horrid to me means confusing, hard to find things but primarily not what I want. I prefer the Start menu UI. It's what I'm used to and how I'm trained to look for things I do repeatedly every day.

For me, this:
MetroUI.jpg

is much less useable than this:
StartUI.jpg
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 10 Pro X64
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Lenovo IdeaCenter K450
    CPU
    Intel Quad Core i7-4770 @ 3.4Ghz
    Motherboard
    Lenovo
    Memory
    16.0GB PC3-12800 DDR3 SDRAM 1600 MHz
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    Intel Integrated HD Graphics
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    Realtek HD Audio
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    HP h2207
    Screen Resolution
    1680x1050@59Hz
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    250GB Samsung EVO SATA-3 SSD;
    2TB Seagate ST2000DM001 SATA-2;
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    PSU
    500W
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    Wired USB
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    Internet Speed
    3GB Up, 30GB Down
    Browser
    SeaMonkey
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender; MBAM Pro
    Other Info
    UEFI/GPT
    PLDS DVD-RW DH16AERSH
This won't make the slightest difference to Mystere of the closed mind, but it is an opportunity to post this lovely quote from Dedo:

An important message for Microsoft:

Mark my words. Your Windows line of products will remain a failure on the desktop as long as you keep insisting on shoving the Metro crap on the users. People do not want to see colorful burgers flipping on their 24-inch screen, without being able to remember the position and state of their open applications. That's a huge ***ing distraction, and no one wants that s***. Until you swallow your pride, realize the enormity of your mistake and fix it somehow, you will keep suffering from awful sales and adoption rates, and keep wondering why people do not use your tiled crapps and run alternative start programs. There you go.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    7/8/ubuntu/Linux Deepin
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
Rich, the All Apps screen in W8.1 works much better than that in 8, and you no longer have to go through the Start Screen to get to it.

And there are some (limited) customising options available.

There's still a lot of room for improvement, and no, it isn't a substitute for a proper start menu.

But it is usable.

I don't have a real problem with the UI of either 8 or 8.1 and have both set up so I can use either Metro, or the desktop, or a combo of both. I use Classic Shell in 8, and nothing but Quick-Launch in 8.1 (because of a pinning bug in Metro). I'm happy with that. My main point of dislike re 8.1 is its blatant net-centricity, and the continued removal of features. The lack of features I can work around (and indeed, have done so), but if I'd been unable to turn off 8.1's net-centric 'features' I'd never have considered even trialling it.


Wenda.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 'Ultimate' RTM 64 bit (Pro/WMC).
    Computer type
    Laptop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Acer AS8951G 'Desktop Replacement'.
    CPU
    i7-2670QM@2.2/3.1Ghz.
    Motherboard
    Acer
    Memory
    8GB@1366Mhz.
    Graphics Card(s)
    GeForce GT555M 2GB DDR3
    Sound Card
    Realtek HD w/Dolby 5.1 surround.
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Built-in. Non-touch.
    Screen Resolution
    18/4" 1920x1080 full-HD.
    Hard Drives
    Toshiba 750GBx2 internal. 1x2TB, 2x640GB, 1x500GB external.
    PSU
    Stock.
    Case
    Laptop.
    Cooling
    Stock.
    Keyboard
    Full 101-key
    Mouse
    USB cordless.
    Browser
    IE11, Firefox, Tor.
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender, MalwareBytes Pro.
    Other Info
    BD-ROM drive.
How, exactly, is it "horrid"?

No need to pull my words out of context. I'm directly referencing it for content creation.

It's funny, but every time I ask this question of the start screen haters, all they can do is mumble something about not being designed for a keyboard and mouse, which is patently untrue.

I'll tell you.

There are two halves to any piece of communication. Content Creation, and Content Consumption. I'll define.

Lets break back to pre-history. There are two guys.. one sings the other a song that he wrote in his head. The process of writing it is Content Creation, the process of listening to it is Content Consumption.

Both halves have evolved since the dawn of man. Someone figures something out, broadcasts it to another.. information is created and consumed.

Content Consumption evolved through the spoken word, through theater, through telegraph, through telephone, through radio, through television, through this thing you're reading my content on called the internet. I'm currently using a web browser to construct this content that you are now consuming.

Content Creation evolved through writing with and on objects(walls, paper, desk, typewriter, computer, etc). All Content Creation shares one similarity. It takes lots of input into an environment, and produces an output. If you're at a desk and a kid comes up to you and asks you a question unrelated to what you are doing, what happens? It breaks your train of thought. If you're sitting at your desk going through multiple files, managing photographs, looking at statistics and creating a concise report, what happens if you turn on the television? You lose your train of thought.

The walled garden style interface that Apple came up with is meant to evolve Content Consumption, not Content Creation. It is literally the next broadcast medium. Content Consumption involves 'flipping channels', and as such.. its natural to move from one consumable program to the next this way. Just like browsing websites.

What is *NOT* natural is to be trying to create something, and you 'turn on the television'(or hit the start screen button) to get another piece of information, and the entirety of your work goes away. Subconsciously, this is just like losing your train of thought. You now have to find the piece of information you want, while not keeping what you were working on close at mind. Don't try to pretend you're some master user. This is how it works. You are literally telling your mind to forget about what you had, and go get THIS. NOW. If the Start Screen were simply chromed, it has a different effect on the user, because you still see some of your work up on this screen. That signal to your brain is... you need this... grab it.. but don't forget where you were.

This happens *every* single time you run an app that sends you full screen and why it sucks balls for content creation. You subconsciously lose your train of thought every time you run one in favor of something that isn't that important, but the visual cue tells your mind its the most important thing ever. Its like working at your desk and turning on the TV.

For content consumption, I think Modern is as good as any other app setup. There is nothing 'horrid' about it. But content creation should never be broken thematically, and you should never use a content consumption medium to create content. This is the reason something like Google Docs sucks, but you really can't put your finger on exactly why. They take a content consumption medium(webpages and the internet), and try to turn it into an arena for content creation. To some extent you can do it, but it never.. ever feels 'natural'. This is the reason why.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 7 on the desktop, Windows 8 Surface Pro mobile
Horrid to me means confusing, hard to find things but primarily not what I want. I prefer the Start menu UI. It's what I'm used to and how I'm trained to look for things I do repeatedly every day.

You have a strange definition of "Horrid". I think you exaggerate.

From dictionary.com:

"such as to cause horror; shockingly dreadful; abominable"

Funny but "I can't get my way" doesn't come close to that. Still, the thing you don't seem to get is that the All Apps page has the same functionality as the start menu. You can collapse things into categories, and expand them and go right there.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro
    CPU
    Intel i7 3770K
    Motherboard
    Gigabyte Z77X-UD4 TH
    Memory
    16GB DDR3 1600
    Graphics Card(s)
    nVidia GTX 650
    Sound Card
    Onboard Audio
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Auria 27" IPS + 2x Samsung 23"
    Screen Resolution
    2560x1440 + 2x 2048x1152
    Hard Drives
    Corsair m4 256GB, 2 WD 2TB drives
    Case
    Antec SOLO II
    Keyboard
    Microsoft Natural Ergonomic Keyboard 4000
    Mouse
    Logitech MX
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