Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums


What's the Point of Start Menu for NON Touch Screen PC?

  1. #11


    South Coast NSW, Australia
    Posts : 615
    Windows 8.1 'Ultimate' RTM 64 bit (Pro/WMC).


    The metro screen is designed to deal with this problem:
    That's only if you see it as a problem.

    Most (and quite rightly, imo) do not.


    Wenda.

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  2. #12


    Posts : 454
    Windows 8.1 Pro with Media Center


    Quote Originally Posted by Dirty Butter View Post
    I'm struggling to see the purpose of the Metro Start Screen unless the computer has a touch screen. Other than the Apps and the few Live tiles - programs I've installed open on the regular desktop when I click on the tile. Am I doing something wrong, or is that the way it should be?
    The purpose is consistency with their mobile devices, and the motivation for their mobile devices was to be different than Apple.
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  3. #13


    Posts : 302
    Windows 7 on the desktop, Windows 8 Surface Pro mobile


    Quote Originally Posted by Mystere View Post
    Finally, menus require fine grained motor skills to navigate. If you have a disability.. are old, have parkinsons, or some other situation that doesn't give you good coordination, using menus is very difficult.
    And if you don't, unless you're simply consuming content, using tiles along with the Full Screen interface is very tedious.

    For content creation, the entire modern interface and the use of apps is absolutely horrid. That is what the desktop(and the true Start Button) is for. Have no fear, people will continue to use third-party programs to get Windows 8.x to work the way it is supposed to.

    When Microsoft finally comes to Jesus and realizes that both interfaces are equally valid, and if kept separated from each other will work great, they'll start to finally have something. Simply provide the ability to run apps as chromed windows off the desktop.

    But right now, they can't seem to understand the simple things like Modern Interface simply being a content consumption interface. You don't use a television to construct television programs(nod to Wenda), and you don't use Modern, or apps, to construct content.
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  4. #14


    Posts : 1,925
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    How, exactly, is it "horrid"?

    It's funny, but every time I ask this question of the start screen haters, all they can do is mumble something about not being designed for a keyboard and mouse, which is patently untrue.
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  5. #15


    Posts : 1,127
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    the thing I found is you can argue with logic. you can answer any of their questions. but when you ask them why they hate it, it comes down to, "but, but but... I hate it!"
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  6. #16


    Horrid to me means confusing, hard to find things but primarily not what I want. I prefer the Start menu UI. It's what I'm used to and how I'm trained to look for things I do repeatedly every day.

    For me, this:
    Click image for larger version

    is much less useable than this:
    Click image for larger version
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  7. #17


    Posts : 5,360
    7/8/ubuntu/Linux Deepin


    This won't make the slightest difference to Mystere of the closed mind, but it is an opportunity to post this lovely quote from Dedo:

    An important message for Microsoft:

    Mark my words. Your Windows line of products will remain a failure on the desktop as long as you keep insisting on shoving the Metro crap on the users. People do not want to see colorful burgers flipping on their 24-inch screen, without being able to remember the position and state of their open applications. That's a huge ***ing distraction, and no one wants that s***. Until you swallow your pride, realize the enormity of your mistake and fix it somehow, you will keep suffering from awful sales and adoption rates, and keep wondering why people do not use your tiled crapps and run alternative start programs. There you go.
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  8. #18


    South Coast NSW, Australia
    Posts : 615
    Windows 8.1 'Ultimate' RTM 64 bit (Pro/WMC).


    Rich, the All Apps screen in W8.1 works much better than that in 8, and you no longer have to go through the Start Screen to get to it.

    And there are some (limited) customising options available.

    There's still a lot of room for improvement, and no, it isn't a substitute for a proper start menu.

    But it is usable.

    I don't have a real problem with the UI of either 8 or 8.1 and have both set up so I can use either Metro, or the desktop, or a combo of both. I use Classic Shell in 8, and nothing but Quick-Launch in 8.1 (because of a pinning bug in Metro). I'm happy with that. My main point of dislike re 8.1 is its blatant net-centricity, and the continued removal of features. The lack of features I can work around (and indeed, have done so), but if I'd been unable to turn off 8.1's net-centric 'features' I'd never have considered even trialling it.


    Wenda.
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  9. #19


    Posts : 302
    Windows 7 on the desktop, Windows 8 Surface Pro mobile


    Quote Originally Posted by Mystere View Post
    How, exactly, is it "horrid"?
    No need to pull my words out of context. I'm directly referencing it for content creation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mystere View Post
    It's funny, but every time I ask this question of the start screen haters, all they can do is mumble something about not being designed for a keyboard and mouse, which is patently untrue.
    I'll tell you.

    There are two halves to any piece of communication. Content Creation, and Content Consumption. I'll define.

    Lets break back to pre-history. There are two guys.. one sings the other a song that he wrote in his head. The process of writing it is Content Creation, the process of listening to it is Content Consumption.

    Both halves have evolved since the dawn of man. Someone figures something out, broadcasts it to another.. information is created and consumed.

    Content Consumption evolved through the spoken word, through theater, through telegraph, through telephone, through radio, through television, through this thing you're reading my content on called the internet. I'm currently using a web browser to construct this content that you are now consuming.

    Content Creation evolved through writing with and on objects(walls, paper, desk, typewriter, computer, etc). All Content Creation shares one similarity. It takes lots of input into an environment, and produces an output. If you're at a desk and a kid comes up to you and asks you a question unrelated to what you are doing, what happens? It breaks your train of thought. If you're sitting at your desk going through multiple files, managing photographs, looking at statistics and creating a concise report, what happens if you turn on the television? You lose your train of thought.

    The walled garden style interface that Apple came up with is meant to evolve Content Consumption, not Content Creation. It is literally the next broadcast medium. Content Consumption involves 'flipping channels', and as such.. its natural to move from one consumable program to the next this way. Just like browsing websites.

    What is *NOT* natural is to be trying to create something, and you 'turn on the television'(or hit the start screen button) to get another piece of information, and the entirety of your work goes away. Subconsciously, this is just like losing your train of thought. You now have to find the piece of information you want, while not keeping what you were working on close at mind. Don't try to pretend you're some master user. This is how it works. You are literally telling your mind to forget about what you had, and go get THIS. NOW. If the Start Screen were simply chromed, it has a different effect on the user, because you still see some of your work up on this screen. That signal to your brain is... you need this... grab it.. but don't forget where you were.

    This happens *every* single time you run an app that sends you full screen and why it sucks balls for content creation. You subconsciously lose your train of thought every time you run one in favor of something that isn't that important, but the visual cue tells your mind its the most important thing ever. Its like working at your desk and turning on the TV.

    For content consumption, I think Modern is as good as any other app setup. There is nothing 'horrid' about it. But content creation should never be broken thematically, and you should never use a content consumption medium to create content. This is the reason something like Google Docs sucks, but you really can't put your finger on exactly why. They take a content consumption medium(webpages and the internet), and try to turn it into an arena for content creation. To some extent you can do it, but it never.. ever feels 'natural'. This is the reason why.
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  10. #20


    Posts : 1,925
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by Ztruker View Post
    Horrid to me means confusing, hard to find things but primarily not what I want. I prefer the Start menu UI. It's what I'm used to and how I'm trained to look for things I do repeatedly every day.
    You have a strange definition of "Horrid". I think you exaggerate.

    From dictionary.com:

    "such as to cause horror; shockingly dreadful; abominable"

    Funny but "I can't get my way" doesn't come close to that. Still, the thing you don't seem to get is that the All Apps page has the same functionality as the start menu. You can collapse things into categories, and expand them and go right there.
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What's the Point of Start Menu for NON Touch Screen PC?
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