Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums

Tom70

  1. #1


    Posts : 1
    windows 8 pro

    Tom70


    I have a relatively new desktop pc with a factory installed windows 7. I have upgraded to windows 8 pro and want to get a response to a question that I am puzzled with. If ever the need for me to reinstall windows, do I have to install windows 7 then windows 8 upgrade or can I do a clean install with just the windows 8 upgrade?

      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  2. #2


    If you wish to use the process approved by Microsoft, you have to install an upgradable OS, and then run the Win8 upgrade.

    However, there's a work-around:

    Clean Install with Windows 8 Upgrade[2]=Installation and Setup

    I haven't used it, so I can't verify it from personal experience.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  3. #3


    Posts : 2,156
    Win7 Ult on DIY; Win8 Pro on MBP/Parallels; Win7 Ult on MBP/Boot Camp; Win7 Ult/Win8 Pro on HP


    Quote Originally Posted by Tom70 View Post
    I have a relatively new desktop pc with a factory installed windows 7. I have upgraded to windows 8 pro and want to get a response to a question that I am puzzled with. If ever the need for me to reinstall windows, do I have to install windows 7 then windows 8 upgrade or can I do a clean install with just the windows 8 upgrade?
    You can do a clean reinstall (Clean Install - Windows 8) without reinstalling the qualifying OS (not a work around). You are likely to have to activate with the refresh procedure described here if you reinstall: Clean Install with Windows 8 Upgrade.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  4. #4


    Quote Originally Posted by znod View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom70 View Post
    I have a relatively new desktop pc with a factory installed windows 7. I have upgraded to windows 8 pro and want to get a response to a question that I am puzzled with. If ever the need for me to reinstall windows, do I have to install windows 7 then windows 8 upgrade or can I do a clean install with just the windows 8 upgrade?
    You can do a clean reinstall (Clean Install - Windows 8) without reinstalling the qualifying OS (not a work around). You are likely to have to activate with the refresh procedure described here if you reinstall: Clean Install with Windows 8 Upgrade.
    Installing Windows 8 on a blank hard drive is a re-install?

    Running a refresh on Windows 8 installation that isn't activated because it wouldn't accept an upgrade key, and then entering the key, isn't a work-around to avoid Microsoft's requirements for using an upgrade license?

    Bending the language doesn't matter, I suppose.

    My belief is that the above installation method is a backdoor, built by Microsoft. I thought the same thing of the dual-install method that served a similar purpose with Vista and Win 7 upgrade licenses. I have never seen official confirmation of any of those, though.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  5. #5


    Posts : 2,156
    Win7 Ult on DIY; Win8 Pro on MBP/Parallels; Win7 Ult on MBP/Boot Camp; Win7 Ult/Win8 Pro on HP


    Quote Originally Posted by bobkn View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by znod View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom70 View Post
    I have a relatively new desktop pc with a factory installed windows 7. I have upgraded to windows 8 pro and want to get a response to a question that I am puzzled with. If ever the need for me to reinstall windows, do I have to install windows 7 then windows 8 upgrade or can I do a clean install with just the windows 8 upgrade?
    You can do a clean reinstall (Clean Install - Windows 8) without reinstalling the qualifying OS (not a work around). You are likely to have to activate with the refresh procedure described here if you reinstall: Clean Install with Windows 8 Upgrade.
    1. Installing Windows 8 on a blank hard drive is a re-install?

    2. Running a refresh on Windows 8 installation that isn't activated because it wouldn't accept an upgrade key, and then entering the key, isn't a work-around to avoid Microsoft's requirements for using an upgrade license?

    Bending the language doesn't matter, I suppose.

    3. My belief is that the above installation method is a backdoor, built by Microsoft. I thought the same thing of the dual-install method that served a similar purpose with Vista and Win 7 upgrade licenses. I have never seen official confirmation of any of those, though.
    1. He said nothing about a blank HDD. He is asking about reinstalling.

    2. He already has a license. Doing the refresh procedure is standard around here. Call is a work around if you want. It appears that MS may have wanted things to work this way so that reinstalls would have an activation path.

    3. You are right; the terminology doesn't matter much. I don't consider the process to be a work around; you do. Fine. But, people need ways to reinstall software that was cleanly installed in the first place and to get activated with minimal bother--without having to reinstall old software. I think even having to do a refresh is too much bother.

    Wonder why MS would allow such procedures to work if not intended to be used? On the other hand, why wouldn't they tell us about them. At some point MS needs to exercise some trust. Maybe the refresh procedure is a way of doing so--but without telling us about it. I don't know.

    In general, MS has no significant safeguards for most anything when installing Win8 anyway. One can get an ISO (adding UEFI support if needed) by using someone else's computer with a qualifying OS on it (or buy retail upgrade discs). Then, the OS then can be installed cleanly on a system devoid of a qualifying OS--whether or not one even has one.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  6. #6


    I thought that Tom70 has mentioned a replacement HD, but I see that's not the case.

    This is pure speculation, but consider the scenario:

    Fred has purchased an appliance PC, with pre-installed Windows. The machine came without an OS disk. Like most people, Fred doesn't bother to make a restore disk set using the utility.

    He buys an upgrade to a later version of Windows.

    After a few years (or days), the hard disk dies. Fred buys a replacement at his local Worst Buy.

    And finds that his upgrade copy of Windows won't install on it. He calls Microsoft. What do they tell him, that he's screwed unless the PC maker can provide a solution?

    I figure that the work-around was built in by design, so that an upgrade copy can be installed without a qualifying OS present, in a pinch.

    Just my guess. The odds of it ever being confirmed or denied are slim.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  7. #7


    Posts : 2,156
    Win7 Ult on DIY; Win8 Pro on MBP/Parallels; Win7 Ult on MBP/Boot Camp; Win7 Ult/Win8 Pro on HP


    "I figure that the work-around was built in by design, so that an upgrade copy can be installed without a qualifying OS present, in a pinch."

    I think that's the basic idea. Note that what you say also applies if a badly broken Win8 is installed when using the upgrade copy.

    Don't know what you mean here: "
    He calls Microsoft. What do they tell him, that he's screwed unless the PC maker can provide a solution?"

    It is MS that provided the work around or whatever you want to call it.

    Also, MS may be allowing for not selling a retail full-install DVD set to some extent.

    Thanks for discussing.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  8. #8


    Quote Originally Posted by znod View Post
    Don't know what you mean here: "He calls Microsoft. What do they tell him, that he's screwed unless the PC maker can provide a solution?"
    My idea was that Microsoft would find that some non-piratical customers might get quite annoyed when they find out their paid-for upgrade copy can't be activated on a blank HD. The backdoor method avoids that.

    Of course, it also allows upgrade copies to be activated by people who don't have a qualifying older OS in hand.

    As the upgrade copy now costs more than the System Builder license, which is the nearest thing that I know of to a retail upgrade copy, people won't be buying the upgrade copy to save a little money by violating the EULA. The current pricing scheme seems insane to me. That makes me believe that some sort of change is imminent.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  9. #9


    Couple weeks ago I saw a post, from a UK guy I believe, that said the price has been reduced again. I did a quick pounds to dollars conversion and it was $69 prox us dollars. I didn't go looking to verify but the thread discussion seemed to verify it.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  10. #10


    Posts : 2,156
    Win7 Ult on DIY; Win8 Pro on MBP/Parallels; Win7 Ult on MBP/Boot Camp; Win7 Ult/Win8 Pro on HP


    Quote Originally Posted by bobkn View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by znod View Post
    Don't know what you mean here: "He calls Microsoft. What do they tell him, that he's screwed unless the PC maker can provide a solution?"
    My idea was that Microsoft would find that some non-piratical customers might get quite annoyed when they find out their paid-for upgrade copy can't be activated on a blank HD. The backdoor method avoids that.

    Of course, it also allows upgrade copies to be activated by people who don't have a qualifying older OS in hand.

    As the upgrade copy now costs more than the System Builder license, which is the nearest thing that I know of to a retail upgrade copy, people won't be buying the upgrade copy to save a little money by violating the EULA. The current pricing scheme seems insane to me. That makes me believe that some sort of change is imminent.
    Go it, isn't this amazing?: "the upgrade copy now costs more than the System Builder license." I bought a system builder a few days ago from Newegg; couldn't resist the price. Moving toward a Win8 Pro/Blue dual boot on some machine--maybe on my system spec machine if I feel like going to the trouble.
    Last edited by znod; 18 Mar 2013 at 09:38.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

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