Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums


W8 could be better by REMOVING the desktop APP

  1. #1


    Hafnarfjörđur IS
    Posts : 4,376
    Linux Centos 7, W8.1, W7, W2K3 Server W10

    W8 could be better by REMOVING the desktop APP


    Hi there
    After HATING W8 at first and then getting to grips with it -- quite a big learning process -- not in using windows itself but re-arranging working style and conveniently arranging applications -- I actually like it a lot now and see where Ms was trying to go with this one.

    However what I reckon is where they made a big boo boo was to actually provide the DESKTOP environment -- this has the effect of getting 100,000's of people (or millions of people) to attempt to replicate Windows 7 in every sort of way causing a lot of pent up anger and frustration for people who can't get it to work in the same way that they always have.

    Now had they REMOVED the desktop from the outset and REALLY sold Windows as a BRAND NEW WINDOWS a lot more would have tried it - some would like it - some not but there really couldn't have been the backlash as it is a BRAND NEW WINDOWS.

    In order to remove the desktop and still run traditional desktop applications easily would simply require very minor modifications to the current Windows 8.

    1) From the std Metro start screen run traditional applications in default WINDOWED mode -- this allows concurrent windows etc -- most users of traditional desktop applications -- especially when they have large or multiple monitors rarelr run in Full screen only.

    2) Allow traditional apps to have "Expanding tiles" -- for example if I click in say Ms Office the tile would expand to show say EXCEL / POWERPOINT etc.

    3) To start applications from Existing applications -- say I'm in EXCEL and want to start Photoshop then we need to allow toolbars to be visible in the Charms area or on the bottom of the Window of the running applications in windowed mode. (Note we need to do this as we wouldn't have the desktop environment any more to start new applications).

    4) Metro applications should be able to be windowed and made easier to run when using multiple monitors -- full screen is fine for small screens / tablets / mobile phones but very wasteful on large screens or multiple monitors.

    6) The whole functionality of using multiple monitors could be considerably improved.

    I've found these days now I rarely ever SEE the standard desktop any more -- I use customised toolbars and find I'm actually working BETTER than I was with W7.

    Ms made the big error by making W8 to some extent to look like W7 with a basic feature missing -- the Menu which was an integral part of W7-- and traditional Windows. Had W8 been designed as a NEW WINDOWS somewhat on the lines I've suggested there would be some learning curve but 90% of the Vitriol currently being hurled at W8 would probably never have existed.

    I really hope W9 (or the next iteration of Windows will have enough courage to remove the desktop completely.

    (I'm still looking for a method in the current W8 to add a toolbar to the charms bar -- but I think this is a bit beyond my skill set -- somebody though might be able to do it).


    Cheers
    jimbo

      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  2. #2


    Posts : 2,627
    win8.1.1 enterprise


    no desktop, this thread should go to 20 pages pretty quick .lol

    i think they did make win8 with no desktop its called win8 RT,and that's where it should stay,
    you'll need to get a tablet i guess ,no place for no desktop on my computer anyway, you do make a lot of good points on making the metro apps work better for sure ,
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  3. #3


    Sydney, Nova Scotia, Canada
    Posts : 6,490
    Windows 10 Education 64 Bit


    I'd be fine with that as long as they bake some multi monitor support into Metro. Windows RT comes close but even it has a Desktop. You can't do much of anything on it aside from the default leftovers that haven't been recoded entirely for Metro. Control panel, msconfog etc. Windows 8 always felt half done to me, some kind of transition OS with a little of this and a little of that. A dedicated tablet OS would be fine with me, just don't take my Windows 7 desktop away from me.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  4. #4


    Hafnarfjörđur IS
    Posts : 4,376
    Linux Centos 7, W8.1, W7, W2K3 Server W10


    Quote Originally Posted by alphanumeric View Post
    I'd be fine with that as long as they bake some multi monitor support into Metro. Windows RT comes close but even it has a Desktop. You can't do much of anything on it aside from the default leftovers that haven't been recoded entirely for Metro. Control panel, msconfog etc. Windows 8 always felt half done to me, some kind of transition OS with a little of this and a little of that. A dedicated tablet OS would be fine with me, just don't take my Windows 7 desktop away from me.
    Hi there W7 is fine for what it needs to do -- I'm looking at W8 (or a future Windows) "Beyond the Desktop" -- Many people use "PC's" much less than they used to as there are other devices that perform the functions they want just as well if not better.

    For example I often watch Multi-media these days via a smart phone using an HDMI adapter into a TV -- works absolutely fine --I would have used a PC for this even a year ago. I often also use a folding blue tooth keyboard for typing posts on these types of Forums so my phone is essentially acting as a "full blown PC".

    The main problem with using an Android phone like this is that it is essentially "Single tasking" or more restrictively "single Windowing" - which is fair enough on quite small screens so you can't watch a Movie at the same time as writing a reply to a post or preparing a presentation. The CPU power in most new smart phones is perfectly up to this type of multi-tasking so a future Windows should allow phones to be used in this way --even W8 phones.

    Most of the die hard W8 haters probably are still large users of traditional desktop computers -- but except in a small number of cases the DESKTOP is essentially DYING and therefore a different OS that is more appropriate to current hardware devices seems IMO absolutely the right move for Ms to make.

    The other current limitations in using a phone to act as a "computer" is that you can't have more than One Monitor - I suppose someone will invent a piece of hardware that will allow newer phones to connect to several external monitors.

    When I'm in a Hotel especially for say two or three days -- I often don't even take a laptop any more -- I just connect the phone to the Hotel TV (most decent hotels have LCD TV's with HDMI input available) and use my blue tooth keyboard and HDMI adapter with the Hotel's Wifi). I'm looking forward to a proper Windows 8 phone where I can use OFFICE and Photoshop when connected to an external monitor.


    Even if I'm giving a power point demonstration in an office I can connect my phone via the HDMI adapter to the projector and display the power point demo -- plenty of decent android apps to READ / DISPLAY office documents such as the FREE part of KINGSOFT OFFICE.

    Kingsoft Office 5.1.2 (Free) 5.3.4.apk Free Download, alle applicaties en spellen voor je Android HiAppHere.com

    So for me carrying a laptop around becomes less and less necessary - - I might be tempted by a surface pro if it's robust enough for use in an office.

    A lot of people don't even realize you can use a phone for the things I've outlined above -- but as they do you'll soon see a clamour for better OS'es running on these types of devices.

    I don't think a lot of people realize how much CPU power modern phones have -- and the Android OS is really TINY and uses just a small proportion of the available CPU. A new Windows should also have a tiny running kernel and load the appropriate applications in to it so it's ideal for running on these types of devices in the way users would like to use them.

    Micro sd cards with 32 GB storage (and more to come) also increase available local storage on a phone !!.


    Cheers
    jimbo
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  5. #5


    Orbiting the Moon
    Posts : 2,975
    Windows 10 x64

    This makes me curious...


    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo45 View Post
    I've found these days now I rarely ever SEE the standard desktop any more -- I use customised toolbars and find I'm actually working BETTER than I was with W7.
    But if the toolbars are not on the standard desktop/taskbar then where are they?
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  6. #6


    Hafnarfjörđur IS
    Posts : 4,376
    Linux Centos 7, W8.1, W7, W2K3 Server W10


    Quote Originally Posted by Hopachi View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo45 View Post
    I've found these days now I rarely ever SEE the standard desktop any more -- I use customised toolbars and find I'm actually working BETTER than I was with W7.
    But if the toolbars are not on the standard desktop/taskbar then where are they?
    Hi there
    perhaps I expressed myself badly -- excuses.

    What I meant was that I rarely go into the desktop application directly or launch a program from it any more -- I access the Toolbar from the bottom of the screen (Taskbar) or start my first application from the Start screen rather than go into the desktop and THEN start an application.

    If I could get the toolbar top display on the CHARMS bar then my need for a "Classic Desktop" would 100% disappear.
    Hope that clears it up. You should be able to see what I'm trying to do even if it's not feasible currently.

    Cheers
    jimbo
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  7. #7


    Sydney, Nova Scotia, Canada
    Posts : 6,490
    Windows 10 Education 64 Bit


    @ jimbo, I don't own a cell phone, smart or otherwise. I'm not in any big hurry to get one either. I don't own a tablet, or nay touch screen device. I have two desktop PC's and one old laptop. They all currently run Windows 7. I tried windows 8 on all of them but different issues caused me to go back to Windows 7. Drivers were a problem on the laptop and I got tired of reinstalling 8 to fix Apps that just quit and refused to work on the desktop PC's. I don't hate 8 but there isn't anything all that compelling to make me want to pony up any extra cash to run it on my current PC's. I just ordered an ASUS K75DE 17.3" Laptop and with any luck I'll have it for the weekend. It comes with Windows 8 and I'll leave like that as long as everything works the way it should. It will be nice to have at least one PC running Windows 8. If anything I'll be able to offer more and better help here instead of just lingering in the background. I'm retired now so I don't need the latest and greatest. I don't really have anything cutting edge but that doesn't bother me. I can easily get by with the hardware I have.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  8. #8


    Hafnarfjörđur IS
    Posts : 4,376
    Linux Centos 7, W8.1, W7, W2K3 Server W10


    Hi there
    @alphanumeric
    That's FINE --as I said W7 is perfectly OK for people who still want to use a classic desktop in the "Classic manner" and there's nothing wrong --W7 is a perfectly capable OS for this and will continue to be for a long time yet.

    My main point was that an increasing number of people are using all sorts of devices where formerly they would have used a Desktop -- and a NEW OS should reflect the new hardware. In fact we could be counted lucky that Ms has even MADE W8 on the whole to be "Backward compatible" with previous OS'es.

    If you look LONG TERM I don't think Ms has taken the wrong direction here -- why spend billions continually developing a product for essentially a diminishing number of users -- this might be a bit harsh but it's the reality. Sometimes you have to take a short term hit in order to make a long term gain. Also current workplace desktop users really have no other place to go so they might as well stick with W7 --It's going to be around till at least 2020 --who knows what sort of hardware and applications will be around then.

    Cheers
    jimbo

    Cheers
    jimbo
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  9. #9


    I think we need two OS's. A desktop OS, which is currently served well by Windows 7, and a mobile OS which could be Windows 8. Overhaul Windows 7 to bring the performance up, but leave the user desktop experience as is.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  10. #10


    Sydney, Nova Scotia, Canada
    Posts : 6,490
    Windows 10 Education 64 Bit


    Unfortunately (for the average consumer) Microsoft gains revenue from the Metro Apps it wants you to buy. I wouldn't think they are all too fond of people bypassing Metro. I'd be very surprised if they split it into separate Classic Desktop version and a Metro Touch Version. I'd rejoice and applaud them if they did, but I don't see that happing unless Windows 8 really flops. I don't mind using Metro other than it being a pain to arrange your tiles the way you want them. More customization options for metro would be nice too. My biggest gripe with Metro is the one size fits all limitation. What is the good of one screen full screen only if you have more than one display. I'm not a programmer of coder, but in this day and age to have that kind of restriction just boggles me.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

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W8 could be better by REMOVING the desktop APP
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