Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums


Replacement Start Menus - Consensus of opinion

  1. #61


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by Ray8 View Post
    Another thing I might point out about the UI is that many people have a desktop PC running Windows, an iPad and either an iPhone or Android phone. This sort of technology mix is very common. Microsoft has sort of jumped the gun and assumed that from day one with Windows 8, everyone is going to dump their iPads and Apple/Android phones and will move across to an all Windows environment.

    That isn't going to happen, not now and most likely not for a long time. To that end, Microsoft has angered a vast number of their dedicated PC users, by inflicting on them a mobile phone interface (the lowest common denominator) unnecessarily and for really no reasonable need. The desktop UI should have been retained for the desktop, without having to resort to third party programs, and similarly for tablets (for those that want a tablet as a desktop alternative). Was this too much to ask for? Would it have really hurt Microsoft to offer such a simple option?
    This is why it's called the "long haul." And still, there are cases of people dropping off their ipads elsewhere for an x86 based tablet PC.

    I use a Windows Phone daily, Windows 8 daily. Why should there be two distinct UI differences if the one metro design can be adapted for each form factor rather nicely? Why should your definition of what a stale Windows system be my definition? They're both computing devices. They both run the Windows NT kernel, so why don't I have a start menu on my Windows Phone? Because it simply isn't cut out for touching. If you look at the demand for touch based devices, more people are actually buying touch AIO PCs and others are looking at the touch enabled laptops and even tablets. Why? Touch input is nicer to use than a mouse, Windows 8 can be touched better than 7. This is simply the future of computing. What a desktop will be 10 years from now won't look like what a desktop today is, or at least, HOW they'll be used. Windows 8 sparked that change. Long haul again.

    And I have to speculate, if a start menu was used in Windows 8, is would fragment the overall Windows 8 UI paradigm into two different and separate UIs. This isn't like using the Windows Classis theme, this is literally one UI over another. Windows Server 2012 doesn't even do that, as again, a fleet of Windows 8 machines being managed by Windows Server 2012 would be odd to do with a start menu on Server and Start Screen on the client. And if you look at the Windows Classic theme from past Windows versions, how many people used that? How many people use that theme today? Not even a full percent I bet. So why keep that for only a small minority of users today? That's what would eventually had happened if that option was kept for two UIs, in retrospect it would had been pointless if by 10 years hypothetically, 99 percent of everyone used the default Start Screen over the menu. All it does is just postpone ripping the band aid off. Once you rip that band aid off, then you realize that hey, that wasn't too bad. I can get to all my Libraries pretty easily from Start. I can even put power tiles on it if I like. I don't like the metro apps, so I can click three times to uninstall them. Wow, what was I doing all this time saying the Start Screen was useless when I can get to point A to point B just the same, and maybe, just maybe, I actually get to what I need on the Start Screen quicker than I did with the older version.

    But hey, that's just me.

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  2. #62


    Posts : 1,770
    Windows Phone 6, Windows CE 5, Windows Vista x32, Windows 7 x32/x64, Windows 8 x64


    It is just you. Microsoft needs to understand that not everyone is like you, nor can they mould everyone into your image.
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  3. #63


    Posts : 5,360
    7/8/ubuntu/Linux Deepin


    nor can they mould everyone into your image.
    Are you sure about that? Not everyone, perhaps, but if they keep at it long enough and given there is no competition in the proper machine arena - MS may get what they want by a process of attrition.

    If a viable alternative appears - then that would completely rewrite the book.
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  4. #64


    Posts : 1,770
    Windows Phone 6, Windows CE 5, Windows Vista x32, Windows 7 x32/x64, Windows 8 x64


    Quote Originally Posted by SIW2 View Post
    nor can they mould everyone into your image.
    Are you sure about that? Not everyone, perhaps, but if they keep at it long enough and given there is no competition in the proper machine arena - MS may get what they want by a process of attrition.

    If a viable alternative appears - then that would completely rewrite the book.
    I guess when there are only a handful of people left and they are all of the same mould, then they've achieved their aim.

    But it sure does give an incentive for alternatives. Just look at the mobile phone arena, not so long ago, there were but a few options, now we have Android, Apple, Blackberry and upcoming Ubuntu, Firefox, Tizen oh and Windows. You never know how small the catalyst that suddenly jump starts the unexpected (that catalyst won't jump start Windows 8 with it's UI).
    Last edited by Ray8; 01 Mar 2013 at 03:30.
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  5. #65


    Posts : 25
    Win 8 Pro 64 bit


    Where MS missed the boat was getting rid of the traditional start menu and making it so difficult to get it back. The fact that a whole class of third-party utility has sprung up (start menu restoration) is proof of two things. First, that it really isn't all that hard to make it re-appear, and two, that a lot of people prefer that on their laptops or desktops. The Metro interface makes absolutely no sense (to me anyway) on a non-touch screen device. I work with a lot of computer literate people (developers) and they all hate Metro. I'm only running Win 8 because I was able to upgrade for $14.99 and because of utilities like Start8. If I had to pay full price and live with Metro, I'd still be using 7, which I think is Microsoft's best OS ever. I should point out that once past the Metro issue, I'm pretty satisfied with Win 8.
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  6. #66


    Quote Originally Posted by badcat View Post
    Where MS missed the boat was getting rid of the traditional start menu and making it so difficult to get it back. The fact that a whole class of third-party utility has sprung up (start menu restoration) is proof of two things. First, that it really isn't all that hard to make it re-appear, and two, that a lot of people prefer that on their laptops or desktops. The Metro interface makes absolutely no sense (to me anyway) on a non-touch screen device. I work with a lot of computer literate people (developers) and they all hate Metro. I'm only running Win 8 because I was able to upgrade for $14.99 and because of utilities like Start8. If I had to pay full price and live with Metro, I'd still be using 7, which I think is Microsoft's best OS ever. I should point out that once past the Metro issue, I'm pretty satisfied with Win 8.

    I agree that Microsoft missed the boat on this. They should have made a simple change to Windows 8 where people using PC's can adjust it the way they want. Most people at this time are not using touch screen PC's. Tablets, phones, yes, but not PC's. I am using a freeware app that brings the start menu and Desktop back and I have it starting with this when my laptop boots. Other than that, I like Windows 8 and I find it to run faster than 7. I tested it first on a 4 year old laptop and it put new life into it! It is screaming on my new HP Envy I7!
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  7. #67


    Well I'm both amuse and perplexed at all of this hullabaloo about a "start menu".

    Sorry to pull the "old timer" schtick but there were NO computers at all when I was young.

    These young guys think it's a shocker. They should have been back in the MS DOS era. Start menu - "Are You Kidding" !!!!! But here's a challenge. You can still go to your "C" prompt. Do it and then make your computer work then come back and we will talk.

    My Granddaughter told me her Kids are using computers in the FIRST grade ! My son tells me that if I ever want to know anything at all about mobile phones, smart phones ask his son Will.

    My other Granddaughter gives Grandpa lessons in how to use her new touch screen tablet/notebook with Win 8.
    Last edited by wetibbe; 01 Mar 2013 at 09:25.
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  8. #68


    Quote Originally Posted by mbratch View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by wetibbe View Post
    People who are so fundamentally lacking I common sense that they will sit down to a screen and somehow, delusionally, believe that intuitively Win 8 will fly through the air and be absorbed by the pores probably also believe in reincarnation and space aliens. It really takes someone with an IQ higher than their golf score. Then again there are people who couldn't pour pixx from a boot with the instructions written on the heel.
    _____________________________________________________________________________


    Not sure why you feel it necessary to denigrate those who don't go to a manual when they want to figure out how to use a system that has, frankly, been touted as "so simple a child could figure it out". A common comment I've heard from people who use an iPad for the first time is, "Wow, I was able to figure this thing out and use it productively without requiring a manual". It's about making the power accessible to the user in an intuitive way. What your saying is 180 degrees from that.

    Don't get me wrong, I like some things about Windows 8, and I personally don't find it all that complicated. I simply find the changes to be unnecessary and not enhancing to my particular workflow. I understand why MS did it: so that they could make everything the same across all hardware platforms.
    ______________________________________________________________________

    I have two of the TOP books on Windows 8 that I read daily and I can say with complete confidence that I am not even half way, as yet, to understanding every aspect of Win 8 and won't be for several more months and quite possibly never. And I can further say confidently that users will never conquer all, and I mean all, aspects without written help.

    Yes, of course, user can make it work on their own but only superficially with the most basic aspects. Thus I'm talking about the degree of proficiency.
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  9. #69


    Quote Originally Posted by wetibbe View Post
    Well I'm both amuse and perplexed at all of this hullabaloo about a "start menu".

    Sorry to pull the "old timer" schtick but there were NO computers at all when I was young.

    These young guys think it's a shocker. They should have been back in the MS DOS era. Start menu - "Are You Kidding" !!!!! But here's a challenge. You can still go to your "C" prompt. Do it and then make your computer work then come back and we will talk.

    My Granddaughter told me her Kids are using computers in the FIRST grade ! My son tells me that if I ever want to know anything at all about mobile phones, smart phones ask his son Will.

    My other Granddaughter gives Grandpa lessons in how to use her new touch screen tablet/notebook with Win 8.

    LOL....I know what you mean! I am 52 and my first computer (1989?) ran Tandy's Deskmate. It had MSDOS 3.3 and a whopping 40MB hard drive. I think a lot of the issue with the start menu is it was designed for a touch screen, and most PC's do not have one. I like touch screens on my tablets, but I would not want one on my computers. First of all, I am a poor typist, and there is no way I could work typing on a tablet. I could get a keyboard for a tablet, but then, why get a tablet if you do that?? I also play PC games, and they would be impossible for me to play with a touch screen. The other problem with this is just plain old change. A lot of people, especially us older ones, do not adjust to change as well as younger people do. I work as a PC tech and I have had to adjust to many things over the past 14 years at my job. I just force myself to do it! I plan on slowly getting used to Windows 8 tiled interface. I am just going to take it one step at a time!
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  10. #70


    Posts : 1,770
    Windows Phone 6, Windows CE 5, Windows Vista x32, Windows 7 x32/x64, Windows 8 x64


    Just because someone doesn't like the MPI, doesn't mean they can't use it. I was able to use it within minutes and, within the same time frame, disliked it intensely. Six months later, I still don't like it. Just because one is not a spring chicken, doesn't mean they are not capable and adaptable to change.

    If body shirts and flared pants came back in, does that mean you'd be wearing them because it's modern and you don't want to look old fashioned?
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Replacement Start Menus - Consensus of opinion
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