Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums


Replacement Start Menus - Consensus of opinion

  1. #51


    Posts : 1,770
    Windows Phone 6, Windows CE 5, Windows Vista x32, Windows 7 x32/x64, Windows 8 x64


    The fact that even the most basic aspects of the OS can't be understood by a reasonably knowledgeable computer user, without having to buy a book, proves that the user interface is a complete fail.

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  2. #52


    Webster NY US
    Posts : 325
    Win 7 / Win 8


    Quote Originally Posted by wetibbe View Post
    People who are so fundamentally lacking I common sense that they will sit down to a screen and somehow, delusionally, believe that intuitively Win 8 will fly through the air and be absorbed by the pores probably also believe in reincarnation and space aliens. It really takes someone with an IQ higher than their golf score. Then again there are people who couldn't pour pixx from a boot with the instructions written on the heel.
    Not sure why you feel it necessary to denigrate those who don't go to a manual when they want to figure out how to use a system that has, frankly, been touted as "so simple a child could figure it out". A common comment I've heard from people who use an iPad for the first time is, "Wow, I was able to figure this thing out and use it productively without requiring a manual". It's about making the power accessible to the user in an intuitive way. What your saying is 180 degrees from that.

    Don't get me wrong, I like some things about Windows 8, and I personally don't find it all that complicated. I simply find the changes to be unnecessary and not enhancing to my particular workflow. I understand why MS did it: so that they could make everything the same across all hardware platforms.
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  3. #53


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by Ray8 View Post
    The fact that even the most basic aspects of the OS can't be understood by a reasonably knowledgeable computer user, without having to buy a book, proves that the user interface is a complete fail.
    Oh boy...

    You must not see the several books in how to use Windows xp, Windows 95, Windows vista, Windows 7, Windows 8, ect., ect., ect.

    Seriously, I had a book back in 2001 or so in how to use Windows xp and the interweb highway. I don't know why I had it, I think someone actually gave it to me for some reason.... All those books and whatnot literally just cover the basics of the new Windows version. Windows 8 isn't EVEN CLOSE to being the first OS to having books written about, even mac os, ios, and android have them as well.

    So by your thinking, LITERALLY EVERY OPERATING SYSTEM UI is a complete failure.
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  4. #54


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by mbratch View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by wetibbe View Post
    People who are so fundamentally lacking I common sense that they will sit down to a screen and somehow, delusionally, believe that intuitively Win 8 will fly through the air and be absorbed by the pores probably also believe in reincarnation and space aliens. It really takes someone with an IQ higher than their golf score. Then again there are people who couldn't pour pixx from a boot with the instructions written on the heel.
    Not sure why you feel it necessary to denigrate those who don't go to a manual when they want to figure out how to use a system that has, frankly, been touted as "so simple a child could figure it out". A common comment I've heard from people who use an iPad for the first time is, "Wow, I was able to figure this thing out and use it productively without requiring a manual". It's about making the power accessible to the user in an intuitive way. What your saying is 180 degrees from that.

    Don't get me wrong, I like some things about Windows 8, and I personally don't find it all that complicated. I simply find the changes to be unnecessary and not enhancing to my particular workflow. I understand why MS did it: so that they could make everything the same across all hardware platforms.
    It's interesting how younger people and children can pick up Windows 8 quicker than the elder veterans of Windows. If I can speculate, I think it's because the older veterans have an expectation of what Windows should do and look like: window controls, start menu, Desktop icons, folders, window chrome and on. But the newer users of Windows are more inclined to go with it and learn the new ways.

    But this isn't to say that Windows 8 is that drop dead easy, even it made me take a curve of learning. BUT, I never had to use the internet or anything to get things figured out, I took a boat and explored EVERYTHING. That's just me, I'm inclined to tinker around with technology and learn it myself and need the manual or internet or instructions when I'm genuinely stumped. What I know after all this time helps pretty much everyone I come across with Windows 8 blues, I just tweak the UI a bit to have certain things pinned to Start, tell them the certain gestures that need to be used, and then they're usually fine.

    That's one of my things against Windows 8 if I had to say. There just isn't a good rundown of the UI. There used to be tour of Windows back with xp, but not with vista, 7, or 8. That's probably because no one went through the tour (really odd by the way, Windows xp being secure, what?!) so they took it out. But they should had the new things about Windows at the OOBE screen, or after it. I was shown how to use Windows 8 better with the new Microsoft Touch Mouse drivers than Windows 8 did. That's not correct in my book.
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  5. #55


    Posts : 1,770
    Windows Phone 6, Windows CE 5, Windows Vista x32, Windows 7 x32/x64, Windows 8 x64


    You have completely missed my point. Of course there have been books about Windows for years, but in this case, the guy was clearly computer literate and was also completely baffled by the UI. The Windows desktop UI has been ostensibly the same for the last 30 odd years and is something just about any computer user is reasonably familiar with.

    The desktop UI wasn't broken, but Microsoft decided that it needed fixing. And this aspect is the most common and increasing complaint about Windows 8, as people buy new PCs and are confronted with it for the first time. This is not going to go away, so get used to the complaints and the needling of Microsoft.
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  6. #56


    Posts : 25
    Win 8 Pro 64 bit


    Quote Originally Posted by TONSCHUH View Post
    I use Start8 on all my machines and it works flawless so far.

    I use this also and it works great. No issues at all.
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  7. #57


    Posts : 25
    Win 8 Pro 64 bit


    Quote Originally Posted by Ray8 View Post
    You have completely missed my point. Of course there have been books about Windows for years, but in this case, the guy was clearly computer literate and was also completely baffled by the UI. The Windows desktop UI has been ostensibly the same for the last 30 odd years and is something just about any computer user is reasonably familiar with.

    The desktop UI wasn't broken, but Microsoft decided that it needed fixing. And this aspect is the most common and increasing complaint about Windows 8, as people buy new PCs and are confronted with it for the first time. This is not going to go away, so get used to the complaints and the needling of Microsoft.
    I agree. The Metro interface is awful on a normal computer, in my opinion. It's great on a smartphone or tablet though. In my case it's not that I can't learn it, it's that I don't want to because it will never make any sense on a standard computer.
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  8. #58


    Posts : 1,770
    Windows Phone 6, Windows CE 5, Windows Vista x32, Windows 7 x32/x64, Windows 8 x64


    Another thing I might point out about the UI is that many people have a desktop PC running Windows, an iPad and either an iPhone or Android phone. This sort of technology mix is very common. Microsoft has sort of jumped the gun and assumed that from day one with Windows 8, everyone is going to dump their iPads and Apple/Android phones and will move across to an all Windows environment.

    That isn't going to happen, not now and most likely not for a long time. To that end, Microsoft has angered a vast number of their dedicated PC users, by inflicting on them a mobile phone interface (the lowest common denominator) unnecessarily and for really no reasonable need. The desktop UI should have been retained for the desktop, without having to resort to third party programs, and similarly for tablets (for those that want a tablet as a desktop alternative). Was this too much to ask for? Would it have really hurt Microsoft to offer such a simple option?
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  9. #59


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by Ray8 View Post
    You have completely missed my point. Of course there have been books about Windows for years, but in this case, the guy was clearly computer literate and was also completely baffled by the UI. The Windows desktop UI has been ostensibly the same for the last 30 odd years and is something just about any computer user is reasonably familiar with.

    The desktop UI wasn't broken, but Microsoft decided that it needed fixing. And this aspect is the most common and increasing complaint about Windows 8, as people buy new PCs and are confronted with it for the first time. This is not going to go away, so get used to the complaints and the needling of Microsoft.
    Which is probably why there's the issue of using it, the Desktop UI has functioned relatively the same for 30 some years and of course there will be issues if that gets changed. Even ios uses a Desktop UI, which I find absurd. But even then, the Start Screen is almost like a Desktop UI, especially when live tiles get involved (properly developed live tiles) you have the new Windows. Windows 8 is designed for internet world and internet content, you can see updates of that content on the tile, THEN you open the app to further view things. It's like if you had a browser window open and had to refresh to view new content on the Desktop, tis not that efficient UI wise.

    You can argue the Desktop was broken, but it's being abandoned slowly for other things that are Desktop Lite UIs, like android and ios. But it's not that hard to use the Start Screen as a giant start menu. THAT'S where the issue can boil down to. This whole hands in the air, Microsoft is pushing us off a cliff notion is just getting absurd. The Desktop STILL is there, the Start Screen is just a Desktop sized start menu.

    There's a saying that I think is applicable, "A computer is only as smart as the person using it."

    I think I was actually told that many many many years ago in a computer class I took and I was getting deeply annoyed with the compulator and my instructor told me that. A rather intelligent burn, but insightful.
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  10. #60


    Posts : 1,770
    Windows Phone 6, Windows CE 5, Windows Vista x32, Windows 7 x32/x64, Windows 8 x64


    Your instructor was an idiot. A computer and, more to the point, the software and the UI is designed by people. Those immersed totally in their programming and pet desires, often do not realise that not everyone see things or works in the same way as they do, usually it's quite different. The IT industry is the most notorious for belittling those who are not technically or computer literate.
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Replacement Start Menus - Consensus of opinion
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