Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums

Win8pro

  1. #51


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by Max Peck View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by lehnerus2000 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    I don't even have a power button.
    How do you turn your machine on?
    The wall socket?
    Coke, that vanguard of continual progress <grin> has a hand-crank on his PC to keep the power going!

    (No offense Coke!)

    -Max
    That would actually be kind of cool to have a hand crank on it!

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  2. #52


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by Max Peck View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    No one asks to go back to a drop down menu list like in Office 2003.
    <Soapbox>
    Just call me "no one" then because I really hate that ribbon in Office 2007 & 2010. That's why I keep 2003 on my system. I have to use 2010 at the office but on my equipment it's 2003. And it's not because I haven't used it long enough, either. I've been using 2010 at the office for a couple years now and I still​ find 2003 far more fluid to use. In 2010 I'm always hunting all around through the tabs to find stuff that I had neatly organized in 2003.

    With 2003 the menu system is logical and ordered and the toolbar is just large enough to see the icons clearly and is completely customize-able. I can put all my most frequently used commands right there on the toolbar in the order that *I* decide to put them. The toolbar is large enough but doesn't intrude into the client window very much so there's plenty of room for the content I'm working on. Funny ... Microsoft keeps flopping back-and-forth on this one. Office 2003 was semi-minimalist with the "chrome", then they go with a huge RIBBON intrusion (talk about CHROME), now they're flipping back to this ugly mono-colored, flat anti-chrome scheme in yet another attempt to change things up.

    Not all progress is GOOD progress, Coke. (Just look at the political landscape for an example of that, though that's for an entirely different discussion). Sometimes you find a tool that "just works". Fortunately the tools I have still "just work" and I don't have to pay a subscription for them either. The toolmaker (MS) just has to sell a new one so they have to change everything (whether it's necessary or not) so they can sell more of 'em. Just business I guess!
    </Soapbox>

    -Max
    The Ribbon isn't so much really chrome, the main thing there is the ACTUAL piece of UI that wraps around the software is what is the anti-metro thing here. Looking at Office 2013, it's new visual style includes a very simple, very clean colored one pixel outline of the software. The actual window control chrome is something you don't really recognize anymore after using it for a while.

    See, I'm the opposite, I used to hate on Office 2007 when it came out because it was too much in my face versus the drop down menu. But, I didn't really have a full grasp on 2003 either way as I still had to do some hunting in the tabs and menus. After really learning 2007 and knowing where everything is at, it's SO much faster, point and click and done. If someone needed help with a formatting issue in Word 2003, I'd be totally lost. Which, I guess is partly the reason for the Ribbon, to put those advanced controls readily available right there versus burying them up in the menus.
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  3. #53


    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    Who ever said to hit the power button to shut down? Every time this comes up, everyone who knows how to use Windows 8 and likes it will say it's under the Settings charm.
    Mystere is the one who has said it to me. There may have been a few others.

    Yes, I know HOW to shut off Windows 8 now. But it's not intuitive for anybody who is new to Windows 8. That question about not being able to figure out how to shut it down comes from everybody.


    Quote Originally Posted by lehnerus2000 View Post
    Mystere says it regularly (or variations of it).
    Here's an example:
    https://www.eightforums.com/general-d...tml#post188949
    Thanks, you beat me to the punch.
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  4. #54


    Posts : 5,360
    7/8/ubuntu/Linux Deepin


    No, that's nonsense.

    If you want customers to buy your product, you have to offer them something they want.

    If you don't, they are likely to buy a competing product. That assumes there is viable competition, of course.

    Where there is no effective competition - then the product maker might choose to push out what they want - without caring about the customers.

    It is not hard to understand.

    MS decided to release this in full knowledge a significant number of their target market did not like it.

    I wasn't there, so I don't know why they came to that decision.

    Perhaps they thought they could get away with it because in terms of a desktop o/s - there is no effective competition, and that is where the difficulties are.

    Interesting they are only now making noises suggesting there may be some changes coming .





    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by pparks1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SIW2 View Post
    Nobody gives a damn what MS wants.

    They should be providing what the customer wants.
    Similar to the approach Apple takes, they don't care what the customer wants, they don't even ask what the customer wants. They maintain that the customer doesn't KNOW what they want yet...so they design it their way.

    I think MS has tried the same thing. We as the users aren't used to this approach from MS.
    Well technically, if the customer had their way, we'd still be using a Windows 3 setup, or even a better DOS. No one asked for a start menu or Taskbar in Windows 95. No one asked to consolidate down menu flyouts from the start menu from xp to vista where it's just a scrolling list. No one asked for a Ribbon interface in Office 2007. No one asked for a bigger Taskbar in Windows 7. No one asked for a Start Screen in Windows 8. Yet, ALL the things Microsoft pushed out to market ended up getting adopted and supported. No one asks to revert back to the days without a Taskbar or start menu. No one asks to have ridiculous menu flyouts in the start menu like xp. No one asks for a smaller Taskbar. No one asks to go back to a drop down menu list like in Office 2003.

    Microsoft's not even the first or second company to do something like this....
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  5. #55


    Quote Originally Posted by SIW2 View Post
    No, that's nonsense.

    If you want customers to buy your product, you have to offer them something they want.

    If you don't, they are likely to buy a competing product. That assumes there is viable competition, of course.

    Where there is no effective competition - then the product maker might choose to push out what they want - without caring about the customers.

    It is not hard to understand.

    MS decided to release this in full knowledge a significant number of their target market did not like it.

    I wasn't there, so I don't know why they came to that decision.

    Perhaps they thought they could get away with it because in terms of a desktop o/s - there is no effective competition, and that is where the difficulties are.

    Interesting they are only now making noises suggesting there may be some changes coming .
    OK, Market Man.

    #1 Where is your proof to the highlighted statement? Or is this what you conclude after testing prereleases, final release, and comments & opinions on this forum and/or possibly others including media coverage?

    #2 How on God's green earth would MS know how customers would rate Windows 8 unless they presented it. They built and improved every release of an OS by what they surveyed off the last. Now all of a sudden they are releasing an OS based on what they want? That's nonsense to me.
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  6. #56


    Posts : 1,925
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by SIW2 View Post
    MS decided to release this in full knowledge a significant number of their target market did not like it.
    You keep confusing your opinions with everyone elses. There is no evidence that any significant portion of the computer using public hate Windows 8. All there are is some vocal people on message boards.

    Honestly, if you give most people Windows 8 with a small amount of instruction (5 minutes) and don't constantly tell them how much it sucks, most people are just fine with it. Really.

    You keep getting your opinion reinforced because you tell everyone you talk to how much you hate Windows 8, and they defer to you and adopt your opinions. If you let people come to their own conclusions, things are very different.
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  7. #57


    DeLand, FL
    Posts : 380
    Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit


    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    See, I'm the opposite, I used to hate on Office 2007 when it came out because it was too much in my face versus the drop down menu. But, I didn't really have a full grasp on 2003 either way as I still had to do some hunting in the tabs and menus. After really learning 2007 and knowing where everything is at, it's SO much faster, point and click and done. If someone needed help with a formatting issue in Word 2003, I'd be totally lost. Which, I guess is partly the reason for the Ribbon, to put those advanced controls readily available right there versus burying them up in the menus.
    I guess it's all a matter of what you get used to. I'm not what you would call a really sophisticated user of Office. I have a fairly routine set of things I do with it; I've never even stretched the limits of what 2003 can do in any regard so, to me, upgrading is of no benefit. I'm just glad the thing continues to work as well as it does because I'm reaching the point in my career where I just don't really care to chase the "bleeding" edge any more. Another 10 or 15 years of this and I'll be ready for the Old Programmer's Home. By then it will be 50 years in the industry and I think I'd just as soon go ride my bike or fiddle with my cameras (or any grandchildren that might be around by then).


    -Max
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  8. #58


    Adelaide
    Posts : 1,338
    Windows 7 Ultimate SP1 (64 bit), Linux Mint 17.1 MATE (64 bit)

    Toolbars vs Ribbons


    Quote Originally Posted by Max Peck View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    No one asks to go back to a drop down menu list like in Office 2003.
    <Soapbox>
    Just call me "no one" then because I really hate that ribbon in Office 2007 & 2010. That's why I keep 2003 on my system. I have to use 2010 at the office but on my equipment it's 2003. And it's not because I haven't used it long enough, either. I've been using 2010 at the office for a couple years now and I still​ find 2003 far more fluid to use. In 2010 I'm always hunting all around through the tabs to find stuff that I had neatly organized in 2003.

    With 2003 the menu system is logical and ordered and the toolbar is just large enough to see the icons clearly and is completely customize-able. I can put all my most frequently used commands right there on the toolbar in the order that *I* decide to put them. The toolbar is large enough but doesn't intrude into the client window very much so there's plenty of room for the content I'm working on.
    I'm with you.
    I used to use 2 toolbars, in Word and Excel, with all of my "favourite" commands on them (and a bunch of rarely used ones to fill up the space).
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  9. #59


    Posts : 5,360
    7/8/ubuntu/Linux Deepin


    You keep confusing your opinions with everyone elses
    .

    Followed by

    if you give most people Windows 8 with a small amount of instruction (5 minutes) and don't constantly tell them how much it sucks, most people are just fine with it
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  10. #60


    Posts : 1,925
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by Max Peck View Post
    Just call me "no one" then because I really hate that ribbon in Office 2007 & 2010. That's why I keep 2003 on my system. I have to use 2010 at the office but on my equipment it's 2003. And it's not because I haven't used it long enough, either. I've been using 2010 at the office for a couple years now and I still​ find 2003 far more fluid to use. In 2010 I'm always hunting all around through the tabs to find stuff that I had neatly organized in 2003.
    I would suggest that at last PART of your problem is that you keep going back and forth between versions. Did you know that the majority of feature suggestions Microsoft got with previous versions of Office were for features that already existed in Offiice 2003? People didn't know they were there! Adding more and more menu items does not scale, and Microsoft knew they were going to be going more towards touch so the ribbon works better for that as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Max Peck View Post
    With 2003 the menu system is logical and ordered and the toolbar is just large enough to see the icons clearly and is completely customize-able. I can put all my most frequently used commands right there on the toolbar in the order that *I* decide to put them. The toolbar is large enough but doesn't intrude into the client window very much so there's plenty of room for the content I'm working on. Funny ... Microsoft keeps flopping back-and-forth on this one. Office 2003 was semi-minimalist with the "chrome", then they go with a huge RIBBON intrusion (talk about CHROME), now they're flipping back to this ugly mono-colored, flat anti-chrome scheme in yet another attempt to change things up.
    The ribbon is EXACTLY the same size the previous versions of Office with two rows of buttons (the default layout). It's not "huge". Further, the ribbon collapses with a keypress, or can be set to auto-hide and only come up when you click on the tab. You can't auto-hide toolbars in office 2003. Office 2007 also had a qucklaunch bar that was quite customizable, and Office 2010 added ribbon customization, to put things exactly as you want them.

    Making the Ribbon Mine - Microsoft Office 2010 Engineering - Site Home - TechNet Blogs

    I know.. I know.. you still hate it, despite the fact that all your arguments have already been addressed
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