Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums


Here's what I think would fix Windows 8:

  1. #51


    Posts : 835
    Win 8.1 Pro


    The largest majority of the corporate world can do only one thing (MAYbe 2) on an iPad or Android and even Less on a ChromeBook.

    The ONE Thing, Email. That's it. Nothing more for work purposes. Unless that company provides BYOD and a virtual environment, and not all of them do. There are a minority out there that can do more because apps were developed for them to do so, or because of BYOD.

    Enter Windows 8 Pro Tablets. Windows IS the corporate OS of choice. You can not deny it, it's undeniable.
    So, what do those users do? They spend a whole lot of money for a device that can pretty much do only one, maybe 2 things.
    And still have to lug around their corporate laptop. And the tablets of old, which were generally the swivel tablets running Windows XP which was not designed for Tablet (yes I know there is a tablet version) and is not very conducive to tablet use at all.

    But now, Windows 8 IS conducive to Tablet use. All those people that shelled out for an iPad just to work on email will be shelving that device for something they can actually use Desktop Software on.

    This is the points being missed, overlooked, drowned out by BS and misinformation.
    and it's a good opportunity for the corporate world to look at the possibilities of Windows 8 for Field and Off Site employees.

    Here's the biggest thing of all...........

    Remove Metro and what do you have? That's right, Windows 8 Desktop. it's there, it's usable, it's better, it's faster.

    Trust me when I say, the majority of base users have no idea what the start button is. They just don't.
    They put icons on the desktop and away they go.

    So, this whole Metro thing is totally over blown and the detractors and naysayers thrive on it's existence to trash the whole OS.
    Which is why there are so many articles out there that do so.

    But once you get past the new Start screen and Metro aspect, you have an underlying Desktop OS that works very well on a Tablet.

    We will know much more in the very near future.

      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  2. #52


    Posts : 1,925
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by Wrend View Post
    To start with, I personally love popup menu lists which can expand certain folders or whatnot when they're highlighted.
    Unfortunately (or perhaps fortunately), the vast majority of people do not agree with you. Popup menus are difficult to navigate, needlessly hide things (how many times have you been trying to find something that was in a folder you didn't think it would be in?) and extremely difficult to use once they exceed a certain size (we've all seen the scrolling menus that are a PITA). In particular, popup menus do not scale, and they are difficult for anyone with poor motor reflexes (like the elderly, or people with MS or Parkinsons or other diseases that affect motor control) or bad hand-eye coordination.

    Frankly, most people just don't care. Microsoft is not going to design their OS to placate 1% of the users at the expense of many others, particularly when the vast majority doesn't care either way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wrend View Post
    I hardly ever use the desktop background icons, and don't even display them, because I don't prefer to find what I'm looking for that way
    And yet...,

    Quote Originally Posted by Wrend View Post
    I understand that the Metro style interface is designed to replace the Start menu, but I think it would work much better if it instead replaced the desktop itself, while maintaining similar functionality to what it has now, still allowing users to tag whatever they wanted to it, whether traditional icons or app rectangles that you could scroll through, only still allowing for the same functionality without having to switch between screens to access the Taskbar and easily switch between and load windows in the foreground.
    So, you say you personally don't like to use the desktop for such things, and yet you claim that this is how it should be?

    I don't get you.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  3. #53


    Posts : 1,770
    Windows Phone 6, Windows CE 5, Windows Vista x32, Windows 7 x32/x64, Windows 8 x64


    How on earth can anyone suggest that the vast majority of users don't like cascading menus? Where's the evidence? It's what we've all learned to use, to live with and which still exists in every aspect of Windows, Office and every program out there. The fact that Microsoft has created a single-screen start menu does not mean that it's been done because that's what people want; it's Microsoft's misguided venture into the mobile phone and tablet world.

    The only people that I can see so fervently arguing for the new interface are Microsoft employees or those with some vested interest in Microsoft.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  4. #54


    Quote Originally Posted by Ray8 View Post
    From now on, I'm going to call then apps/start menu the Mobile Phone Interface (MPI), because that's what it is. It's not a desktop interface, but an add-on to the desktop that makes your program menu look like you're using a really, really, big mobile phone.

    The MPI is not traditional, desktop, user friendly. It's not fast. It's not convenient. It's not logical. All of the aforementioned applies, unless you are using a mobile phone, or you simply want to love what Microsoft has concocted.

    Most desktop users don't have touch-based anything, they rely on mouse and keyboard. What works for some, clearly does not work for a lot of others. It's not that it's difficult (really and truly it's not difficult to understand and use, I mean it), but it's pointless.

    The Windows 7 method of taskbar and start menu just works better for so many people. Call them stupid, ignorant, Luddites, whatever, but it's what they like and it's what they want. What is one person's cheese is another's rotten milk.
    Of course it's not a desktop interface and wasn't designed or intended to be. You continue to have your desktop portal.

    You can call it anything you want, but technically it's called the Start Screen and All Apps. And it is by no means a phone UI, although it will be familiar to Windows Phone 8 users.

    Please see my next post.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  5. #55


    Quote Originally Posted by Wrend View Post
    Instead of replacing the Start menu with "Metro" (or whatever they're calling it now), I think they should have replaced the desktop background and icons with it as a customizable active desktop, where you could still have your app icons, only they could be these more active icons as in "Metro," and they should have left the Start menu alone.

    I think this would have gone over a lot better, and I might have eventually updated to it instead of deciding to skip Windows 8 altogether whenever I can, waiting for what's next and hopefully better.

    So this is what I think might have helped Windows 8 be accepted. Let me know what you think. (But this isn't a discussion about the validity of my opinion one way or the other. Windows 8 isn't something "I need to get used to;" it unfortunately is something "I don't want to use.")
    A good idea, Wrend, but I think a lot of the decision to go their route was based on the touch popularity and trend to navigate. It is a rather complex issue to solve. I think MS did a good job on their first attempt.

    MS keeps data on users habits through their Customer Experience Improvement Program (CEIP): Microsoft Customer Experience Improvement Program

    From what I understand they saw that hardly any used the Start Menu, for they used the Task Bar and shortcut keys. Personally I didn't use the menu much. I've always opted in on the CEIP. Perhaps enterprise would not rather opt to it? I don't know. Pros here may. I'm a novice. Here's a read that may help to answer that: Reflecting on your comments on the Start screen - Building Windows 8 - Site Home - MSDN Blogs

    Does the data support all customers?

    @Andrew wrote:

    "I'd like to point out that this data you collect is most likely from non-corporate users, you're basing all your statistics around home users and not business users. Most enterprises will turn off the CEIP by default in Group Policy as a security precaution and to prevent chatter from the network."

    Andrew, while itís true that some enterprises choose not to enable the CEIP (Customer Experience Improvement Program, which gives us anonymous, opt-in feedback about how people are using Windows,) we still receive a huge amount of data from this program, including from enterprise customers. In addition, knowing the region, language, edition, and deployment attributes of the product allows us to further refine the data as needed. We often refer to this data as a full "census" (again noting that the data is opt-in and anonymous) as the number of unique data points is magnitudes beyond a "sampling."

    In addition to the CEIP program, we have a wide variety of channels to our corporate customers to understand their needs. For example, we collect feedback continuously during direct engagement with customers (such as during on-site visits and in our briefing centers around the world), from advisory council and early-adopter program members, and at public events such as TechEd and //build/. We also work closely with industry analysts (via consultations and their research) and execute a wide range of our own research studies directly. From these interactions, we know the kind of functionality and control that enterprises want over the Start menu and we are definitely taking these into account as we are designing and developing the changes for Windows 8
    .

    Here's an interesting read on that with stat charts and other good links as to the "whys": Evolving the Start menu - Building Windows 8 - Site Home - MSDN Blogs

    The design of the Start menu began in 1992 for its debut in Windows 95. The menu was conceived in a world where PC towers and 15" CRTs dominated cubicles. The Web was still an experiment and people had to drive to a store to buy software. It was a very different time. The fundamental goal of the menu was to provide an obvious place for people to start their computing tasks. It replaced the venerable Program Manager, that Windows 3.x concept that placed shortcuts in a floating window which happened to interfere with the desktop and other applications. Anchored to the taskbar, the Start menu was a consistent and consolidated portal to your apps and system functions. It was essentially the fastest way to start programs without hunting down an executable somewhere in the system.
    The way I see it, the Start Screen and All Apps are the two of the three segments of the obsolete and omitted Start Menu. The Start Screen replacing the "Recently used programs and files" which are compiled at the top of that menu (if configured to be in properties) and the All Apps replacing the "All Programs" at the bottom. The third segment being the right column is replaced by the Advanced Context Menu (power user task menu) right-clicking the lower left corner or WinKey/X.

    I think the Start Screen to be rather ingenious way of opening to an OS. Customize by arrangement of tiles and personal info at a glance. "A house made from the internet" to quote a VP from Microsoft.

    So far as this big change of replacing the Start Menu with Start Screen/All Apps, if one did not participate in the CEIP, then how would MS know your computing habits, therefore I feel they no right to complain.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  6. #56


    Posts : 1,925
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by Ray8 View Post
    How on earth can anyone suggest that the vast majority of users don't like cascading menus? Where's the evidence?
    I didn't say that. Perhaps you should try reading what is written, rather than reading what you want me to have written.

    I said, the vast majority of users do not "love" popup menus as Wrend does. The vast majority of users do not care, one way or another.. that is, until popup menus become a PITA such as when they grow larger than a full vertical screen.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  7. #57


    Posts : 1,770
    Windows Phone 6, Windows CE 5, Windows Vista x32, Windows 7 x32/x64, Windows 8 x64


    Quote Originally Posted by Mystere View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ray8 View Post
    How on earth can anyone suggest that the vast majority of users don't like cascading menus? Where's the evidence?
    I didn't say that. Perhaps you should try reading what is written, rather than reading what you want me to have written.

    I said, the vast majority of users do not "love" popup menus as Wrend does. The vast majority of users do not care, one way or another.. that is, until popup menus become a PITA such as when they grow larger than a full vertical screen.
    You said this:

    Unfortunately (or perhaps fortunately), the vast majority of people do not agree with you.
    Agreeing, being the use of pop-up or cascading menus. There was no love in your statement.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  8. #58


    Posts : 1,770
    Windows Phone 6, Windows CE 5, Windows Vista x32, Windows 7 x32/x64, Windows 8 x64


    MS keeps data on users habits through their Customer Experience Improvement Program (CEIP): Microsoft Customer Experience Improvement Program
    That depends on how many people overall subscribe to the CEIP, I certainly don't and I'd suggest that dedicated users don't either. The ones that do, are the ones that allow any program they install to add a desktop icon and never read the fine print of anything they install. If that's where Microsoft got their idea that no one uses the start menu, then I think they have a slightly distorted view of the world.

    Remember also that in the corporate world, every user has a desktop image that is consistent and all programs are predominantly accessed via the cascading menus. I would also hazard a guess that corporate system also don't subscribe to the CEIP. That's where are the vast majority of Windows licences deployed.

    So Microsoft has decided to ditch a perfectly functional menu system, based on the laziness and lack of knowledge of a proportion of Windows users, in favour of a menu system used by Android and iOS devices.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  9. #59


    Posts : 835
    Win 8.1 Pro


    Ok Ray, I have to say, you obviously don't work in the corporate world of consistent Desktops. They are very few and far between, Rare to say the least. They need to be locked down to really keep that consistency and that is rare as well.

    Seriously, I can attest to this fact as I have been around the corporate world for a long time as an IT Professional.

    You would be surprised as to how many users have no clue what the start menu is, where the start button is or how to use it.

    Or try anywhere between 20 and 100+ icons on the desktop cause they have no idea how to use Documents/My Documents
    Or finding files saved on root C drive or in the root of their profiles or windows, it is far more common than you think.

    Trust me when i say, the vast majority of plain jane and joe user don't use the start menu and have very little knowledge of it.
    this is a fact, not opinion.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  10. #60


    Orbiting the Moon
    Posts : 2,975
    Windows 10 x64


    Quote Originally Posted by Ray8 View Post
    MS keeps data on users habits through their Customer Experience Improvement Program (CEIP): Microsoft Customer Experience Improvement Program
    That depends on how many people overall subscribe to the CEIP, I certainly don't and I'd suggest that dedicated users don't either. The ones that do, are the ones that allow any program they install to add a desktop icon and never read the fine print of anything they install. If that's where Microsoft got their idea that no one uses the start menu, then I think they have a slightly distorted view of the world.

    Remember also that in the corporate world, every user has a desktop image that is consistent and all programs are predominantly accessed via the cascading menus. I would also hazard a guess that corporate system also don't subscribe to the CEIP. That's where are the vast majority of Windows licences deployed.

    So Microsoft has decided to ditch a perfectly functional menu system, based on the laziness and lack of knowledge of a proportion of Windows users, in favour of a menu system used by Android and iOS devices.
    I've used the menu as well.

    You'll need to rely on 3rd party menus starting from Win8.
    Speaking of Win8, I adapted to the start screen because search works pretty good.

    Maybe I have up to 4 shortcuts on the Desktop but not more than that.

    And since I'm a menu fan I always add a start menu/screen shortcut as the first taskbar icon for the sake of my clicks in the area.
    "Start" Screen Shortcut - Create in Windows 8[1]=Shortcuts
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

Page 6 of 10 FirstFirst ... 45678 ... LastLast
Here's what I think would fix Windows 8:
Eight Forums Android App Eight Forums IOS App Follow us on Facebook