Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums


permissions, UAC and administrator nightmares

  1. #1


    Melbourne
    Posts : 38
    Windows 7 Ultimate X64

    permissions, UAC and administrator nightmares


    Hi, I am setting up a windows 8 installation for my son. He wants to be able to use the new start menu, as well as desktop.

    I am having a nightmare trying to get things installed and running. I get Access denied errors, UAC nags and so on. I have set his account up as an administrator, but Windows still wont installed things, or let me extract things to C: drive folders.

    I found a post about turning off approval mode so things can work, but it disables UAC, which then disables APPs.

    I want to be able to install anything I want, without nags, permissions errors, access denied, on any drive without half a dozens extra steps or mouse clicks, and still be able to run apps from the new start screen, as well as desktop programs.

    I have also installed classic shell because he wanted the windows 7 start menu, and have added the quick launch.

    I have spent the better part of the last day and a half reading through posts of many other frustrated users, but nothing really seems to solve the problems.

    Can any one help?

    thanks
    Tanya

      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  2. #2


    Posts : 1,925
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by TanyaC View Post
    I want to be able to install anything I want, without nags, permissions errors, access denied, on any drive without half a dozens extra steps or mouse clicks, and still be able to run apps from the new start screen, as well as desktop programs.
    You know what? I'd like to just get in my car and drive, without the bother of those pesky key thingies...

    I mean, what could possibly happen if anyone can get in my car, start It up, and drive off in it without any kind of security device?

    UAC is designed to secure your computer from malware that would otherwise want to take over your computer without your knowledge or permission. You want to turn that off, especially for a kid that will likely click on any link presented to him? You'll REALLY know what a nightmare is then. And you'll spend a lot more than a day and a half trying to fix the results.

    Instead of trying to rip out all the locks, why not try to use the keys instead? You get permission errors because you are trying to put things in places they don't belong, and that are deliberately setup to make it difficult to change. You also get permission errors when using external media that has already been configured for a different computers security. You need to add your local user to the permission lists, and everything will work just fine.

    Turning off UAC also does a lot more damage. It turns off Internet Explorer protected mode. By default, IE runs in a special "low rights" mode that prevents malware from doing any damage if they discover a flaw in the browser (those have, in the past, been used for drive-by malware installs). This is much harder to accomplish when protected mode is running.

    Turning off UAC also disables compatibility features, such as protected folder virtualization, which allows apps that behave badly to work correctly. Disabling and re-enabling UAC can cause lots of problems where this gets messed up, some folders are properly virtualized while others are not.

    It's really better to work within the bounds of the way the system is designed, rather than fighting against it.

    By the way, you seem to contradict yourself. You state at first that you're installing it because he wanted to use the new start screen, but then you say you installed Classic Shell because he didn't want the new start screen and wanted the Windows 7 start menu. Perhaps you should figure out exactly what it is he actually wants.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  3. #3


    Melbourne
    Posts : 38
    Windows 7 Ultimate X64


    Quote Originally Posted by Mystere View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TanyaC View Post
    I want to be able to install anything I want, without nags, permissions errors, access denied, on any drive without half a dozens extra steps or mouse clicks, and still be able to run apps from the new start screen, as well as desktop programs.
    By the way, you seem to contradict yourself. You state at first that you're installing it because he wanted to use the new start screen, but then you say you installed Classic Shell because he didn't want the new start screen and wanted the Windows 7 start menu. Perhaps you should figure out exactly what it is he actually wants.
    Oh dear.

    What I want to be able to do is install programs and games. That is the whole purpose of having a computer, to do work and play. Isn't it? I can't do that right now!

    I'm not using any external drives.

    I'm simply trying to install run of the mill programs like WinRAR, ShellFolderfix, VLC, tsMuxer, AVStoDVD, ConvertXtoDVD and AVCHDCoder and many others. Right now, I can't even get an operational system because I can't install basic applications.

    I know exactly what he wants. Perhaps you just misunderstood. He wants the Modern UI. He also wants to use the desktop. When using the desktop he wants the start menu, that looks and operates like windows 7 did. Classic shell does not disable the new "start menu" (modern UI). The system starts with the modern UI. Charms etc remain intact. The start menu has been restored for when he wants to use desktop mode.

    I didn't turn off UAC deliberately because I know it disables apps, amongst other things. But I would like the user account, which is an administrator account to be an administrator account, not a gutted, almost-standard user account. (it is a member of the administrators group). The approval mode secpol setting turns off UAC.

    However, even disabling approval mode did not solve my problem. The administrators groups still has NO rights to the program files [(x86)] folders. I compared this with another person's Windows 8 installation and he has rights, and even has the ability to change those rights. I do not.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  4. #4


    West Auckland
    Posts : 107
    Windows 8 Pro Pack x64


    Perhaps more detailed accounts of certain software that you cannot install would be helpful, plus some screenshots of the error is possible.

    Having installed 8 on 4 very different computers and had zero hassles with installing 3rd party software that dates back to the late 90's, I find it hard to believe the OS is completely to blame.

    MOAR info! please :-) Be detailed.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  5. #5


    Melbourne
    Posts : 38
    Windows 7 Ultimate X64


    Quote Originally Posted by JohnOfE View Post
    Perhaps more detailed accounts of certain software that you cannot install would be helpful, plus some screenshots of the error is possible.

    Having installed 8 on 4 very different computers and had zero hassles with installing 3rd party software that dates back to the late 90's, I find it hard to believe the OS is completely to blame.

    MOAR info! please :-) Be detailed.
    Thanks for your response.

    I reformatted the drive and started again. Made sure not to change the approval mode.

    I have now got the system running. It takes twice as much mouse clicks to do anything than before, and almost every operation has to be confirmed at least twice.

    There are some free softwares that don't have installers, such as tsMuxer. The way around that is to extract the files to a temporary location, then got to an elevated command prompt, which I've added to the quick lanuch, then manually copy the files to the program files [(x86)] folders, then manually add the start menu entry.

    I also set WinRAR to always run as administrator, as well as most other programs, one by one. Took a while.

    My son has to deal with this. Not me, I'll stick with Windows 7 where I can actually get stuff done, with far less barriers and in half the time. If he wants to stick with Windows 8, that's up to him, but I think he will find the Modern UI benefits will be outweighed by the other idiosuncrasies, and I think he will go back to Windows 7...

    Thanks for your assistance. I think I'll call this resolved. Now I'm going to get some sleep. I've been working on this 24 hours straight.

    Tanya
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

permissions, UAC and administrator nightmares
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