Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums


Classic Start Menu -- Microsoft is so out of touch

  1. #31


    Posts : 219
    Windows 8.1 Pro 64 Bit


    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo45 View Post
    Hi there
    once Touch screens get more developed and "Mainstream" we might actually see some Windows 7 Users complaining about how slow the classic start menu is when using a touch screen.

    I hated touch screens at first -- but they are quite OK once you get used to them - Use Touch on the laptop.

    I don't use Touch on my nice large external LCD monitor but in combination with the laptop the W8 system does have plenty of advantages -- what would be a HUGE improvement though would be to make the tiles much more customisable and easier to "Group" and when installing a classical Windows application for it not to generate literally 100's of tiles for every .dll / .exe etc in the install setup.

    Most of the complaints will definitely go away in time. Those that can't or won't can always stick with W7 or Linux.

    W7 is actually better in a lot of work environments where unless you are really lucky your boss is unlikely to give you a touch screen laptop AND a nice 60 inch monitor.

    Cheers
    jimbo
    I agree that with touch I might feel completely different about the OS. Most of us do not yet have touch yet though, by far, so for us it would have been nice had they at least kept the old way inside the OS as an option. I also am very much in agreement with you about the thousand little applets that get loaded on the start screen every time you install a program. Very annoying. The start screen in a nutshell, is a pain in the arse to maintain, because most apps still install shortcuts based on the old start menu format. I finally took the time to organize it, and it is still not nearly as intuitive as the old start menu imo. I might feel different if I had a touch screen computer, but I don't, and neither do most pc users these days.

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  2. #32


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Meh, once you use it for over a year, there are no complaints.
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  3. #33


    Posts : 1,770
    Windows Phone 6, Windows CE 5, Windows Vista x32, Windows 7 x32/x64, Windows 8 x64


    One year, five years, it's still a flawed design.
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  4. #34


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    In five years when touch enabled PCs are a larger part of the whole OS share, what can be superficially skewered as a "flawed design" will be a necessity.
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  5. #35


    Posts : 1,770
    Windows Phone 6, Windows CE 5, Windows Vista x32, Windows 7 x32/x64, Windows 8 x64


    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    In five years when touch enabled PCs are a larger part of the whole OS share, what can be superficially skewered as a "flawed design" will be a necessity.
    For the life of me, I cannot see how one can use touch on a desktop PC, unless you hunch over like some drivers hunch over the steering wheel of their cars. However, the flawed design that I'm talking about is still about the apps and how they display, or don't display.
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  6. #36


    Hafnarfjörður IS
    Posts : 4,376
    Linux Centos 7, W8.1, W7, W2K3 Server W10


    Quote Originally Posted by Ray8 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    In five years when touch enabled PCs are a larger part of the whole OS share, what can be superficially skewered as a "flawed design" will be a necessity.
    For the life of me, I cannot see how one can use touch on a desktop PC, unless you hunch over like some drivers hunch over the steering wheel of their cars. However, the flawed design that I'm talking about is still about the apps and how they display, or don't display.
    Hi there
    Touch is extremely useful on a desktop when you have TWO monitors -- it's not very useful on say the Large monitor but on a 2nd monitor - especially if laid down FLAT on your desk like using a paper notepad it's incredibly useful with pen like devices too. This is where a removable tablet like device will come into its own when hooked up with a 2nd monitor.

    On a large monitor unless you are demoing something on a large monitor and using something like a long plastic stick then I agree with you.

    There's certainly a place for touch in more sorts of situations than you would imagine. -- Once you start using it you will wonder how you ever managed without it. (Rather like SSD's --until you've installed one of these you really don't know what you are missing).

    Even some classical apps can benefit -- I use now Touch from the small laptop monitor to often drag windows to the main screen (use the EXTEND facility). It's often much quicker and easier than messing about with the mouse.

    The mouse is still best at selecting areas of text etc --use BOTH options Touch and Mouse and you'll be surprised. I was sceptical at first but it's worth trying -- remember it's not ALL or NOTHING.

    Cheers
    jimbo
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  7. #37


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by Ray8 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    In five years when touch enabled PCs are a larger part of the whole OS share, what can be superficially skewered as a "flawed design" will be a necessity.
    For the life of me, I cannot see how one can use touch on a desktop PC, unless you hunch over like some drivers hunch over the steering wheel of their cars. However, the flawed design that I'm talking about is still about the apps and how they display, or don't display.
    Because you're doing the touch monitor wrong. How the apps display I bet will be changing as well.
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  8. #38


    Posts : 1,770
    Windows Phone 6, Windows CE 5, Windows Vista x32, Windows 7 x32/x64, Windows 8 x64


    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo45 View Post
    Hi there
    Touch is extremely useful on a desktop when you have TWO monitors -- it's not very useful on say the Large monitor but on a 2nd monitor - especially if laid down FLAT on your desk like using a paper notepad it's incredibly useful with pen like devices too. This is where a removable tablet like device will come into its own when hooked up with a 2nd monitor.

    On a large monitor unless you are demoing something on a large monitor and using something like a long plastic stick then I agree with you.

    There's certainly a place for touch in more sorts of situations than you would imagine. -- Once you start using it you will wonder how you ever managed without it. (Rather like SSD's --until you've installed one of these you really don't know what you are missing).

    Even some classical apps can benefit -- I use now Touch from the small laptop monitor to often drag windows to the main screen (use the EXTEND facility). It's often much quicker and easier than messing about with the mouse.

    The mouse is still best at selecting areas of text etc --use BOTH options Touch and Mouse and you'll be surprised. I was sceptical at first but it's worth trying -- remember it's not ALL or NOTHING.

    Cheers
    jimbo
    In a dual screen situation, which I have, if I needed a touch style facility, I'd rather use a touch pad or Wacom tablet, rather than smearing my monitors with my fingers. But also, if you have a second monitor laid flat on your desk, then it has to be relatively small and designed for the purpose and you'd also then have to hunch over that to do anything.

    The ergonomics, functionality and practicality of touch in a desktop environment does elude me, but that's probably because I sit back from my monitors and use them for reading, comparing data etc and copying/cutting/moving bits of data around, or doing things that require finer control than you get with a finger, like Lightroom/Photoshop. I guess it all depends on how one is set up and what one actually does with a PC.
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  9. #39


    Posts : 1,770
    Windows Phone 6, Windows CE 5, Windows Vista x32, Windows 7 x32/x64, Windows 8 x64


    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    Because you're doing the touch monitor wrong. How the apps display I bet will be changing as well.
    No, I work differently to how you might like to work, that doesn't make it wrong (except maybe in your eyes). The apps should have been more functional from the start, not half-baked icons that act as little more than links.
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  10. #40


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by Ray8 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo45 View Post
    Hi there
    Touch is extremely useful on a desktop when you have TWO monitors -- it's not very useful on say the Large monitor but on a 2nd monitor - especially if laid down FLAT on your desk like using a paper notepad it's incredibly useful with pen like devices too. This is where a removable tablet like device will come into its own when hooked up with a 2nd monitor.

    On a large monitor unless you are demoing something on a large monitor and using something like a long plastic stick then I agree with you.

    There's certainly a place for touch in more sorts of situations than you would imagine. -- Once you start using it you will wonder how you ever managed without it. (Rather like SSD's --until you've installed one of these you really don't know what you are missing).

    Even some classical apps can benefit -- I use now Touch from the small laptop monitor to often drag windows to the main screen (use the EXTEND facility). It's often much quicker and easier than messing about with the mouse.

    The mouse is still best at selecting areas of text etc --use BOTH options Touch and Mouse and you'll be surprised. I was sceptical at first but it's worth trying -- remember it's not ALL or NOTHING.

    Cheers
    jimbo
    In a dual screen situation, which I have, if I needed a touch style facility, I'd rather use a touch pad or Wacom tablet, rather than smearing my monitors with my fingers. But also, if you have a second monitor laid flat on your desk, then it has to be relatively small and designed for the purpose and you'd also then have to hunch over that to do anything.

    The ergonomics, functionality and practicality of touch in a desktop environment does elude me, but that's probably because I sit back from my monitors and use them for reading, comparing data etc and copying/cutting/moving bits of data around, or doing things that require finer control than you get with a finger, like Lightroom/Photoshop. I guess it all depends on how one is set up and what one actually does with a PC.
    Again, you're still doing it wrong. There is VERY little to even any existence of hunching over. No one in their professional state of mind would EVER use Photoshop and their finger. Even in the Surface Pro advert, they don't use their finger with Photoshop. Professionals in that arena use a stylus, do you finger paint your signature? I sure hope not, you use a pen.
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Classic Start Menu -- Microsoft is so out of touch
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