Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums


Win8 Prevents BIOS Access

  1. #31


    Posts : 1,925
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by labeeman View Post
    For your information Windows 8 does try to alter CMOS settings.

    You'll also see a notice if the processor might not support NX or if NX is turned off in the PC BIOS. Windows 8 Setup will attempt to turn on NX during installation and, if it isn't able to, will return your PC to the current operating system.
    What is PAE, NX, and SSE2 and why does my PC need to support them to run Windows 8?
    That doesn't mean what you think it means. NX is is not "on" even if it's enabled in BIOS. Enabling it in BIOS only allows it to be turned on, if it's disabled in BIOS then it can't be turned on at all.

    What that means is that Windows attempts to use the NX bit when creating memory pages, and if it cannot, it fails. It cannot if it's turned off in BIOS. It does NOT mean that it tries to change your bios settings.

      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  2. #32


    Quote Originally Posted by labeeman View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by bobkn View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by labeeman View Post
    For your information Windows 8 does try to alter CMOS settings.
    Can you supply a link that describes that? (Preferably not to another forum discussion.) It'd be quite interesting.
    The link that I supplied goes to microsoft.com support page not a discussion page.
    Since the page in the link made no mention of Windows 8 changing the BIOS settings, I thought that you were referring to something else.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  3. #33


    Quote Originally Posted by labeeman View Post
    For your information Windows 8 does try to alter CMOS settings.
    You'll also see a notice if the processor might not support NX or if NX is turned off in the PC BIOS. Windows 8 Setup will attempt to turn on NX during installation and, if it isn't able to, will return your PC to the current operating system.
    What is PAE, NX, and SSE2 and why does my PC need to support them to run Windows 8?
    Thank you, labeeman
    You are the first online forum member to agree with me that Win8 can change the BIOS Settings!!
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  4. #34


    Quote Originally Posted by bobkn View Post
    The changes that you refer to would have to be an actual modification of the BIOS EEPROM (electrically erasable programmable read-only memory). The sort of thing you'd do with a BIOS update.
    I still find that difficult to believe, but I can't swear that it's impossible.
    However, as you're in the US, you can get a pre-flashed replacement BIOS chip from the Asus estore:
    BIOS Chip for P6 Series Motherboards
    Cost: $15US plus shipping.
    I suspect that won't solve your problems, but at least it would show whether it has anything to do with BIOS settings.
    If you really want to spend $700 or so on a new X79 board, LGA2011 CPU (I7-3820), and new RAM (quad channel preferred, if not required), then go for it.
    THANK YOU, bobkn, for telling me that I can replace my BIOS chip!! I did not know that this was possible. I have confirmed that mine is "Removable", and I have ordered a new BIOS chip for my P6X58D-E Mobo. I do think that this will solve my problem!

    Once I can access my Boot Device Priority, I will use my "Windows PE CD" to restore my last Macrium System Image Backup for "Windows 7". I will format my System Drive (in my wife's computer) before I attempt the Restore, to ensure that Win8 does not lock me out of my BIOS again.

    I will postpone any further Win8 installs until sometime later after I have upgraded my system with a "Certified for Windows 8 (or 9?) Motherboard".

    Thank you again for giving me hope that I can bring my current system back to life! Considering my bad luck recently, I hope that my rescued system will not spontaneously combust!
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  5. #35


    Quote Originally Posted by znod View Post
    Did you ever try what I suggested in posts 2 and 13?--before your computer became a boat anchor, of course.
    Yes, thank you, znod, I did try your suggestion. "Fast Startup" was actually "Off" originally. So, I turned it "On", and then followed your suggested procedure.

    I am sorry that I did not reply earlier, znod. I have tried every and all suggestions (except those that require changes in Boot Device Priority) from many members in 5 different online forums, but none of them have helped so far. Today I learned from bobkn that I can buy a new BIOS chip for my Mobo and I am hopeful that this will solve my prolem. If not, I will get back to my online searches for a new Mobo and CPU.
    Last edited by pauldknight; 25 Jan 2013 at 23:54.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  6. #36


    Quote Originally Posted by Mystere View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by labeeman View Post
    For your information Windows 8 does try to alter CMOS settings.

    You'll also see a notice if the processor might not support NX or if NX is turned off in the PC BIOS. Windows 8 Setup will attempt to turn on NX during installation and, if it isn't able to, will return your PC to the current operating system.
    What is PAE, NX, and SSE2 and why does my PC need to support them to run Windows 8?
    That doesn't mean what you think it means. NX is is not "on" even if it's enabled in BIOS. Enabling it in BIOS only allows it to be turned on, if it's disabled in BIOS then it can't be turned on at all.

    What that means is that Windows attempts to use the NX bit when creating memory pages, and if it cannot, it fails. It cannot if it's turned off in BIOS. It does NOT mean that it tries to change your bios settings.
    Windows limits the use of firmware services as much as possible to help ensure system reliability. Although most interaction with the firmware occurs during the boot process, Windows can also interact with firmware at run time.
    http://download.microsoft.com/downlo...Windows-8.docx
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  7. #37


    Quote Originally Posted by labeeman View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mystere View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by labeeman View Post
    For your information Windows 8 does try to alter CMOS settings.



    What is PAE, NX, and SSE2 and why does my PC need to support them to run Windows 8?
    That doesn't mean what you think it means. NX is is not "on" even if it's enabled in BIOS. Enabling it in BIOS only allows it to be turned on, if it's disabled in BIOS then it can't be turned on at all.

    What that means is that Windows attempts to use the NX bit when creating memory pages, and if it cannot, it fails. It cannot if it's turned off in BIOS. It does NOT mean that it tries to change your bios settings.
    Windows limits the use of firmware services as much as possible to help ensure system reliability. Although most interaction with the firmware occurs during the boot process, Windows can also interact with firmware at run time.
    http://download.microsoft.com/downlo...Windows-8.docx
    Interesting, but I don't see any mention of the OS modifying UEFI settings, much less messing with the motherboard's EEPROM.

    pauldknight's X58 system has a BIOS rather than UEFI, anyway.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  8. #38


    [QUOTE=bobkn;183094]

    Windows limits the use of firmware services as much as possible to help ensure system reliability. Although most interaction with the firmware occurs during the boot process, Windows can also interact with firmware at run time.
    http://download.microsoft.com/downlo...Windows-8.docx

    Interesting, but I don't see any mention of the OS modifying UEFI settings, much less messing with the motherboard's EEPROM.

    pauldknight's X58 system has a BIOS rather than UEFI, anyway.
    Windows can also interact with firmware at run time. That tells me that it can read and write to cmos.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  9. #39


    Posts : 1,925
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Interact does not mean change.

    DOS interacts with the firmware, by calling an interrupt vector and executing code that's in ROM. The same is true of all OS's, either they need to know all the hardware registers, or they need to interact in the standard defined mechanism.

    This is not the same thing as changing BIOS settings. the BIOS CMOS is BIOS defined, and what values are where changes from version to version. Merely upgrading your firmware would effectively make your computer unusable if Windows actually tried to use the CMOS directly.

    All you're doing is speculating. Yes, it's *possible* for Windows to change the CMOS settings. It wouldn't do this deliberately, but sometimes a nasty crash can cause CMOS corruption. But, be that as it may, simply clearing the CMOS would fix that. The problem presented here is the claim that Windows has permanently modified their bios somehow in a way that clearing the CMOS doesn't fix.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  10. #40


    Posts : 38
    Windows 7 Ultimate x64 SP1 + Windows 8.1 Pro with WMC x86


    Quote Originally Posted by labeeman View Post

    Windows can also interact with firmware at run time. That tells me that it can read and write to cmos.
    Read - yes. Write - no. Windows can also ignore some BIOS registers, and apply a microcode update on the fly at runtime, but writing to BIOS is a no - no.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

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Win8 Prevents BIOS Access
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