Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums


What Windows 8 should have provided

  1. #51


    Seattle, WA
    Posts : 117
    Windows 8.1 Pro with Media Center


    Quote Originally Posted by Mystere View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by davidvkimball View Post
    IE could easily do it how Chrome does it instead. Toggles between Metro and Desktop with a setting.
    Ummm.. they do.
    Only if you have IE as default. If you don't, the metro IE application basically disappears.

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  2. #52


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Microsoft was heading towards the direction of touch computing since Windows xp, and even further back with Windows 3.11 for Pen Computing! Windows 7 was a touch optimized version, notice the huge Taskbar (that people initially didn't like and eventually was the pinpoint of changes for Windows 8) and huge window control buttons over vista. Notice something here? Touch integration. But a Desktop UI environment doesn't work terribly well with touch, i.e. the start menu specifically.

    Even BEFORE Windows 7 was released to retailers, Microsoft already knew Windows 8 was to be focused heavily on touch and tablet computing. Touch wasn't adopted hugely with Windows 7, but it was there with touch AIO PCs, and even some tablet PCs were launched but never gained much traction.

    It partly was a marketing move, partly a relevance move for the future, and partly to reinvigorate the ENTIRE company. When was the last time a Windows release caused literally redesigns of concurrent products for that release? Not often, other than Office.
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  3. #53


    Posts : 1,770
    Windows Phone 6, Windows CE 5, Windows Vista x32, Windows 7 x32/x64, Windows 8 x64


    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    Microsoft was heading towards the direction of touch computing since Windows xp, and even further back with Windows 3.11 for Pen Computing! Windows 7 was a touch optimized version, notice the huge Taskbar (that people initially didn't like and eventually was the pinpoint of changes for Windows 8) and huge window control buttons over vista. Notice something here? Touch integration. But a Desktop UI environment doesn't work terribly well with touch, i.e. the start menu specifically.

    Even BEFORE Windows 7 was released to retailers, Microsoft already knew Windows 8 was to be focused heavily on touch and tablet computing. Touch wasn't adopted hugely with Windows 7, but it was there with touch AIO PCs, and even some tablet PCs were launched but never gained much traction.

    It partly was a marketing move, partly a relevance move for the future, and partly to reinvigorate the ENTIRE company. When was the last time a Windows release caused literally redesigns of concurrent products for that release? Not often, other than Office.
    Then why is the UI such a hatchet job, as far as the desktop is concerned?
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  4. #54


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by Ray8 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    Microsoft was heading towards the direction of touch computing since Windows xp, and even further back with Windows 3.11 for Pen Computing! Windows 7 was a touch optimized version, notice the huge Taskbar (that people initially didn't like and eventually was the pinpoint of changes for Windows 8) and huge window control buttons over vista. Notice something here? Touch integration. But a Desktop UI environment doesn't work terribly well with touch, i.e. the start menu specifically.

    Even BEFORE Windows 7 was released to retailers, Microsoft already knew Windows 8 was to be focused heavily on touch and tablet computing. Touch wasn't adopted hugely with Windows 7, but it was there with touch AIO PCs, and even some tablet PCs were launched but never gained much traction.

    It partly was a marketing move, partly a relevance move for the future, and partly to reinvigorate the ENTIRE company. When was the last time a Windows release caused literally redesigns of concurrent products for that release? Not often, other than Office.
    Then why is the UI such a hatchet job, as far as the desktop is concerned?
    Not really.....

    So what, you don't see Desktop at login? Relevant Desktop apps and locations aren't easily accessible/customizable? I don't understand. The function is more like icons within tiles on a colored/patterned background or image through a third party. Sounds like what the Desktop was used for since Windows was first conceived... point and click.
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  5. #55


    Posts : 1,770
    Windows Phone 6, Windows CE 5, Windows Vista x32, Windows 7 x32/x64, Windows 8 x64


    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    Not really.....

    So what, you don't see Desktop at login? Relevant Desktop apps and locations aren't easily accessible/customizable? I don't understand. The function is more like icons within tiles on a colored/patterned background or image through a third party. Sounds like what the Desktop was used for since Windows was first conceived... point and click.
    Is the illustration that I provide so difficult to understand? Even pictures seem to fail when describing something patently simple. Those who so valiantly support the status quo, seem incapable of understanding how lame the 'start menu' really is to most desktop users. It puts the PC's menu on another screen completely, rather in the screen where all the work is being done. The apps that are displayed in 'start menu' could have provided so much more functionality and purpose, had they been capable of doing something akin to what I've illustrated.

    Microsoft could have provided the option of the 'start menu' to be exactly the way it is now, to satisfy one group, and allow people to modify it and use the active apps for other purposes. That would have been great; for with Classic Shell we could have had a traditional desktop on one screen, as well as active apps on another (for those with multiple screens, which is becoming very common). All we now have are two groups that are completely polarised regarding the UI, as far as desktops are concerned.

    And you have a logo saying 'think outside the box', when that is the last thing that you appear to be doing.
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  6. #56


    Posts : 1,925
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    The horse is Dead Ray. Stop beating it.
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  7. #57


    Posts : 1,770
    Windows Phone 6, Windows CE 5, Windows Vista x32, Windows 7 x32/x64, Windows 8 x64


    Quote Originally Posted by Mystere View Post
    The horse is Dead Ray. Stop beating it.
    You first.
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  8. #58


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    What about the Start Screen that the menu can't do? All I see is with a start menu Desktop with Windows 8 is a Desktop UI that is even more regarded as an app environment, with metro apps running alongside it. The Start Screen could had been a better executed, like having Desktop locations pinned by default, versus having a Windows 7 Desktop and apps. That's why there is a Start Screen, to bridge those two divides.
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  9. #59


    Posts : 1,770
    Windows Phone 6, Windows CE 5, Windows Vista x32, Windows 7 x32/x64, Windows 8 x64


    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    What about the Start Screen that the menu can't do? All I see is with a start menu Desktop with Windows 8 is a Desktop UI that is even more regarded as an app environment, with metro apps running alongside it. The Start Screen could had been a better executed, like having Desktop locations pinned by default, versus having a Windows 7 Desktop and apps. That's why there is a Start Screen, to bridge those two divides.
    OK, let me try and illustrate this once again, with my Windows 7 desktop with start menu etc, as there's no need to post a picture of what a Windows 8 start menu looks like:

    Click image for larger version

    Note three things about the image:

    1. I have some shortcuts on the desktop itself for files that I use fairly regularly, but are associated with Excel, so I have a shortcut to the actual file on the desktop.
    2. I have a number of shortcuts on the taskbar for programs that I use quite regularly.
    3. I have a cascading menu pop up that links to a number of other programs that I use fairly regularly, including Control panel etc.


    In Windows 7, I can be doing something such as trying to explain why I think the Windows 8 start menu is flawed, to a member of the Windows 8 forum. At the same time, I get an email notification, that someone on the Windows 8 forum has posted in a thread I'm subscribed to and I can click on the Outlook shortcut and see what it's about. And with the aero pop ups, or whatever they are called, I can just hover over an open link in the taskbar and get a quick look at what's going on. I can also click on the start menu and open up Photoshop to create an image to explain why I think the Windows 8 start menu is flawed and I can also quickly click on the Windows Explorer link in the task bar and bring up screen shots to combine in Photoshop for the illustration.

    To do this in the Windows 8 interface, I would have to constantly keep going back to the 'start menu', which is like opening up a completely different program/page and keep repeating this for every action. Now I'm suggesting this on the basis that I don't have Classic Shell or the like and everything is being actioned using the new and fantastic 'start menu'. For a desktop that allows so much more, the Windows 8 solution isn't that great. I simply don't need large icons spread all over a page just for a menu, it's just a waste of space if that's all the icons are able to do.
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  10. #60


    Posts : 5,360
    7/8/ubuntu/Linux Deepin


    The great thing about the start screen is that is the portal to MS online services.

    They wouldn't want you to ignore that.
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