Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums


Win8 OEM System Builder License

  1. #41


    Posts : 22,582
    64-bit Windows 10


    Quote Originally Posted by znod View Post
    Well, I searched and put a lot of opinons supporting mine in my post #12. I could have linked a lot more. I can prove my point beyond doubt. But, if one reads the key sentence I have referred to and applies appropriate logic, then I think my point is readily available.
    Sorry mate, but every single one of the links you posted in your post #12 all support what we've been trying to tell you.

    You have the right to install and activate a Windows 8 System Builder on either one of the options below as per the EULA.


    ......we grant you the right to install....on a computer that you build....or as an additional operating system running on a local virtual machine, or a separate partition.....

      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  2. #42


    Posts : 2,156
    Win7 Ult on DIY; Win8 Pro on MBP/Parallels; Win7 Ult on MBP/Boot Camp; Win7 Ult/Win8 Pro on HP


    Quote Originally Posted by Brink View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by znod View Post
    But a computer you build is a DIY machine right? Where does it say you can put it on a non-diy machine unless as an additional operating system on a local VM or a separate partition?
    That's the part that says it.

    You're just getting hung up on "System Builder" as meaning a system you built (DIY) yourself. While that's true, you can also install it on any computer you like whether you built the computer or not. After all, if you have the right to transfer a system builder copy to another computer, then you certainly have the right to install it where you like as well to begin with.

    It's just that most people don't need to since a prebuilt (factory OEM) computer already comes with a OS they use instead.
    I think the transfer thing is strange and can't be used to conclude anything about the key sentence conclusively. The EULA is debatably unclear about how the system has to be installed after transfer. Let's don't go there; doing so would be very unproductive, I think. What I am hung up on, if you like, is where MS says:

    "We grant you the right to install and run that one copy on one computer (the licensed computer) as the operating system on a computer that you build for your personal use, or ...."

    From here the EULA implies logically only that you have the
    right to install and run that one copy on one computer (the licensed computer) you didn't build--provided it is installed as an additional operating system running on a local virtual machine or as an additional operating system running on a separate partition. The EULA never implies logically that you have the right to install and run one copy on one computer (the licensed computer) you didn't build--without the VM or partition qualification. Of course you can install, etc., on a computer you build as an additional operating system running on a local virtual machine or as an additional operating system running on a separate partition

    Well, at least we have reduced the disagreement to the logical interpretation of what MS says. At least I think we have, logically.
    Last edited by znod; 30 Dec 2012 at 22:10.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  3. #43


    Posts : 2,156
    Win7 Ult on DIY; Win8 Pro on MBP/Parallels; Win7 Ult on MBP/Boot Camp; Win7 Ult/Win8 Pro on HP


    Quote Originally Posted by Brink View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by znod View Post
    Well, I searched and put a lot of opinons supporting mine in my post #12. I could have linked a lot more. I can prove my point beyond doubt. But, if one reads the key sentence I have referred to and applies appropriate logic, then I think my point is readily available.
    Sorry mate, but every single one of the links you posted in your post #12 all support what we've been trying to tell you.

    You have the right to install and activate a Windows 8 System Builder on either one of the options below as per the EULA.


    ......we grant you the right to install....on a computer that you build....or as an additional operating system running on a local virtual machine, or a separate partition.....
    Can't agree, of course. I think they all support my interpretation of what MS says logically. None said you can install on a non-DIY machine without the VM or partition qualification. I think we'll have to go to a logic expert.

    Happy (almost) New Year to All. And, to All a Good Night.
    Last edited by znod; 30 Dec 2012 at 23:00.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  4. #44


    Posts : 22,582
    64-bit Windows 10


    znod,

    I don't know what else to say to convince you that you are misunderstanding it.

    To me and everyone else, it's pretty much clear.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  5. #45


    Posts : 2,156
    Win7 Ult on DIY; Win8 Pro on MBP/Parallels; Win7 Ult on MBP/Boot Camp; Win7 Ult/Win8 Pro on HP


    Quote Originally Posted by Brink View Post
    znod,

    I don't know what else to say to convince you that you are misunderstanding it.

    To me and everyone else, it's pretty much clear.
    I am good with dropping it though I am unconvinced about the logic of the key sentence. I just want to make absolutely sure that you know I am talking about the logic of the key sentence and not the way some, including you as I recall, say things have always been (i.e., no change in what is allowed). Last point: note, FWIW, that quite a few of those linked in my post #12 think that things have changed. Admittedly, the computer press often is deluded.

    I enjoyed the debate. See you soon on board.
    Last edited by znod; 30 Dec 2012 at 23:20.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  6. #46


    Posts : 1,925
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    znod, I think the problem you have is with the idea of "build yourself" or "diy".

    Think about it like this. Suppose you bought a computer that came with everything except a hard disk and an OS. (like those Shuttle kits). You may not have "built it yourself" per se, just adding a hard disk, but it's still perfectly fine to add a system builder license to it. The very act of installing your own OS on a clean hard disk is part of the "build it yourself" process.

    Here's the logical reason why all this is true.

    Microsoft does not sell a retail copy of Windows 8 anymore. They only sell retail upgrades, and the system builder license. There is no other way to get Windows on a computer. Why would Microsoft change the versions to remove a retail copy of the OS if they didn't intend for the system builder to replace the retail copy?

    The license is intended to make it clear that there is a difference between a computer you build for yourself, and one you build for others (ie you become your own OEM). It is not intended to say you can't install it on a computer that you did not build completely from scratch. The idea is that if you are installing the OS for your own use, it's considered a computer that you have built.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  7. #47


    Posts : 22,582
    64-bit Windows 10


    Quote Originally Posted by znod View Post
    I am good with dropping it though I am unconvinced about the logic of the key sentence. I just want to make absolutely sure that you know I am talking about the logic of the key sentence and not the way some, including you as I recall, say things have always been (i.e., no change in what is allowed). Last point: note, FWIW, that quite a few of those linked in my post #12 think that things have changed. Admittedly, the computer press often is deluded.

    I enjoyed the debate. See you soon on board.
    Don't know where you got that either. I never said that there wasn't a change. In fact, the biggest change is the "Personal usage rights" that now allows you to install the System Builder on another computer after uninstalling from any other computer first. Theog pointed this out as well here.

    Previous OEM Windows are permanently tied to the motherboard that it was first activated on, and cannot be installed or activated on any other computer ever.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  8. #48


    Posts : 2,156
    Win7 Ult on DIY; Win8 Pro on MBP/Parallels; Win7 Ult on MBP/Boot Camp; Win7 Ult/Win8 Pro on HP


    Quote Originally Posted by Mystere View Post
    The idea is that if you are installing the OS for your own use, it's considered a computer that you have built.
    That interpretation avoids the logical problem since anyone that intalls the system builder version under the personal-use license for own use is considered to have built his/her own computer. The concept that anyone that intalls the system builder version under the personal-use license for own use is considered to have built his/her own computer is a bizarre concept. I am not doubting you; I would never put this sort of presumably unintentional obfuscation beyond MS. Your thought obviously has reconciled everything for me. But, I am aghast that MS doesn't just say something like the OEM System Builder software can be installed, under the Personal-Use License, for your own use, however you want on one, and only one, computer you own at a time. I am ignoring all the stuff about transferring to another individual.

    Assuming your interpretation of how one qualifies to be system builder is correct, and I am not really doubting it (just aghast), then I thank you very much for clearing everything up. It is not the first time I have seen a highly contentious issue laid to rest via a very simple insight. What a bizarre concept--one is a system builder simply because he/she installs a particular OS. I told you earlier that I think you are a careful reader. Way to go. And, .

    Highest regards,

    znod
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  9. #49


    Posts : 2,156
    Win7 Ult on DIY; Win8 Pro on MBP/Parallels; Win7 Ult on MBP/Boot Camp; Win7 Ult/Win8 Pro on HP


    Quote Originally Posted by Brink View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by znod View Post
    I am good with dropping it though I am unconvinced about the logic of the key sentence. I just want to make absolutely sure that you know I am talking about the logic of the key sentence and not the way some, including you as I recall, say things have always been (i.e., no change in what is allowed). Last point: note, FWIW, that quite a few of those linked in my post #12 think that things have changed. Admittedly, the computer press often is deluded.

    I enjoyed the debate. See you soon on board.
    Don't know where you got that either. I never said that there wasn't a change. In fact, the biggest change is the "Personal usage rights" that now allows you to install the System Builder on another computer after uninstalling from any other computer first. Theog pointed this out as well here.

    Previous OEM Windows are permanently tied to the motherboard that it was first activated on, and cannot be installed or activated on any other computer ever.
    It doesn't matter. I can support what I said, but given what Mystere said, this topic is a done deal. Thanks much for all your replies. Eventually, the point that made everything clear to me came out. Please see above. You may have been getting at Mystere's point here: "You're just getting hung up on "System Builder" as meaning a system you built (DIY) yourself. While that's true, you can also install it on any computer you like whether you built the computer or not." I did not get from what you said that, in brief, anyone installing the OS is a system builder.

    Each of us was arguing validly and valiantly on the basis on our unstated definitions of "system builder." But, then a definition of system builder came out that resolved the issue completely. It's certainly not the first time implicit definitions have stood in the way of reconciliation.
    Last edited by znod; 31 Dec 2012 at 00:21.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  10. #50


    Posts : 1,925
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by znod View Post
    The concept that anyone that intalls the system builder version under the personal-use license for own use is considered to have built his/her own computer is a bizarre concept.
    It's not a bizarre concept because it's the assumed situation, so much so that you're the only person I've ever encountered who came to this other conclusion. It would be bizarre to think as you seemed to. That is why it's not explicit, because common sense simply tells that this would be the case.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

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Win8 OEM System Builder License
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