Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums


I have yet to meet anyone in person who actually likes it

  1. #311


    Pirating software I do not do but any body doing so is bringing down the price of software not the other way around. A soft ware company charges what the market will bear when pirating does happen in large volumes the software company drops the price to generate cash flow if he hikes the price, more pirating will happen and cash flow drops. Sadly no mater the price some pirating for music and movies media is a fact of life. With digital goods the law of supply and demand does not work, only the demand side works.

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  2. #312


    Quote Originally Posted by labeeman View Post
    Pirating software I do not do but any body doing so is bringing down the price of software not the other way around. A soft ware company charges what the market will bear when pirating does happen in large volumes the software company drops the price to generate cash flow if he hikes the price, more pirating will happen and cash flow drops. Sadly no mater the price some pirating for music and movies media is a fact of life. With digital goods the law of supply and demand does not work, only the demand side works.
    Ok. I don't quite get it, but I'll take yours and other's word for it. It's just that it doesn't follow business principles is all. I'll surely be pondering this one.
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  3. #313


    Posts : 1,925
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by labeeman View Post
    How quickly we forget; Microsoft was fund guilty in a court of law of the very things that you say they will not do.
    It really bugs me when people throw around words they obviously don't understand. "Theft" when they mean "Infringement" for instance.

    This is another one, Microsoft was sued by the government in Civil court. You can't be "found guilty" in Civil court. "guilt" is related to criminal court.

    One can be found "liable" for violating civil statues, but that's not the same thing as being found guilty.

    The reason why there is a big distinction between "liable" and "guilt" is that civil court has a dramatically lower standard of proof. And that's why the only penalties for a civil infraction are monetary, injunctive, and behavioral.
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  4. #314


    Adelaide
    Posts : 1,338
    Windows 7 Ultimate SP1 (64 bit), Linux Mint 17.1 MATE (64 bit)

    Shoplifting vs IP Piracy


    Quote Originally Posted by HippsieGypsie View Post
    I'm sure MS follows some formula to charge accordingly. Doesn't make it right, though.

    Perhaps I'm naive to software, but with a brick and mortar store we consumers absorb the cost of shoplifting. Ask any owner. The rate of shoplifting is a given factor added to prices.

    Taxes to prosecute and imprison? Good question! Geez! Who knows the answer to that one? More efficient government for our buck perhaps. The only solution to that one I can think of. Doesn't seem we get it nowadays.
    People are always debating this.

    Shoplifting is different to IP Piracy though.

    The store owner bought the product and put it on his shelf.
    If someone steals it, he loses the Product AND the Income from selling the product.
    He has to spend more money to replace the item.

    If someone downloads Pirated software the IP company only loses the Income from selling the product.
    The IP company still has the original item (i.e. they can still sell the product)

    It's still a loss to the IP company, just not a "double" loss as in the case of the retailer.

    Another thing to consider is that people follow the "examples set by their betters".
    How many CEOs, Corporations, Government Officials, Law Enforcers and Politicians have been caught breaking the Law?

    Note:
    BTW, I am NOT advocating corruption and/or criminal behaviour.
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  5. #315


    DeLand, FL
    Posts : 380
    Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit


    Quote Originally Posted by HippsieGypsie View Post
    Interesting, yes, with no offense, but sometimes I find your logic simply amazing. You referred to two artists that have been around since before the internet was even a word. They made their millions before digital was around via vinyl recordings. My friends and I bought many of them. Difficult to pirate unless one recorded to tape. I knew a few that did via reel to reel. Those were expensive back in the day, so pirating was at a minimum. Then there was the eight track. Then cassette. Then digital on CD. The more technology grew, the more pirating grew.
    Hey Gypsie,

    Pirating content has been around a long time. My father was a Navy pilot back in the 60's ('Nam). He and his buddies would buy tape decks (reel-to-reel) in Tokyo (or wherever over there). Then they'd buy one copy of an album and everybody would make recordings of it. No telling how many guys were swapping those albums around while on board the carrier.

    I remember we had a big stereo at the house with a huge tape deck and dozens of reel-to-reel tapes with all kinds of albums recorded on them. Back then I didn't realize what the issue was but now, in retrospect, I realize that a huge chunk of my father's music collection was pirated. The stereo did have a turntable and I think we had SOME purchased albums but the largest part of the collection was those tapes.

    My father didn't think twice about lying about my age when getting us into the Fresno Zoo (so he wouldn't have to pay the adult admission for me) either, so (again in retrospect) I'm not surprised that he so easily pirated those albums. I guess lying and stealing is just the thing to do when it can get you the advantage.

    -Max :-/
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  6. #316


    DeLand, FL
    Posts : 380
    Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit


    Quote Originally Posted by lehnerus2000 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by HippsieGypsie View Post
    I'm sure MS follows some formula to charge accordingly. Doesn't make it right, though.

    Perhaps I'm naive to software, but with a brick and mortar store we consumers absorb the cost of shoplifting. Ask any owner. The rate of shoplifting is a given factor added to prices.

    Taxes to prosecute and imprison? Good question! Geez! Who knows the answer to that one? More efficient government for our buck perhaps. The only solution to that one I can think of. Doesn't seem we get it nowadays.
    People are always debating this.

    Shoplifting is different to IP Piracy though.

    The store owner bought the product and put it on his shelf.
    If someone steals it, he loses the Product AND the Income from selling the product.
    He has to spend more money to replace the item.

    If someone downloads Pirated software the IP company only loses the Income from selling the product.
    The IP company still has the original item (i.e. they can still sell the product)

    It's still a loss to the IP company, just not a "double" loss as in the case of the retailer.

    Another thing to consider is that people follow the "examples set by their betters".
    How many CEOs, Corporations, Government Officials, Law Enforcers and Politicians have been caught breaking the Law?

    Note:
    BTW, I am NOT advocating corruption and/or criminal behaviour.
    OK ... so if the piracy is LESS of a crime then it's not a crime, eh?

    Sorry ... as far as I'm concerned, theft is theft. The development of "cloning" technology does not diminish the fact that you are taking something that does not belong to you​.

    -Max
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  7. #317


    Quote Originally Posted by Max Peck View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by HippsieGypsie View Post
    Interesting, yes, with no offense, but sometimes I find your logic simply amazing. You referred to two artists that have been around since before the internet was even a word. They made their millions before digital was around via vinyl recordings. My friends and I bought many of them. Difficult to pirate unless one recorded to tape. I knew a few that did via reel to reel. Those were expensive back in the day, so pirating was at a minimum. Then there was the eight track. Then cassette. Then digital on CD. The more technology grew, the more pirating grew.
    Hey Gypsie,

    Pirating content has been around a long time. My father was a Navy pilot back in the 60's ('Nam). He and his buddies would buy tape decks (reel-to-reel) in Tokyo (or wherever over there). Then they'd buy one copy of an album and everybody would make recordings of it. No telling how many guys were swapping those albums around while on board the carrier.

    I remember we had a big stereo at the house with a huge tape deck and dozens of reel-to-reel tapes with all kinds of albums recorded on them. Back then I didn't realize what the issue was but now, in retrospect, I realize that a huge chunk of my father's music collection was pirated. The stereo did have a turntable and I think we had SOME purchased albums but the largest part of the collection was those tapes.

    My father didn't think twice about lying about my age when getting us into the Fresno Zoo (so he wouldn't have to pay the adult admission for me) either, so (again in retrospect) I'm not surprised that he so easily pirated those albums. I guess lying and stealing is just the thing to do when it can get you the advantage.

    -Max :-/
    Max, your father and anyone else in the service defending our country should have gotten the music for free so far as I'm concerned. It doesn't bother me one bit that they pirated the music. God bless them! The ones I spoke of in my post were Viet Nam vets coming home with the reel to reels along with top notch stereo systems they bought in Asia before coming home. They had the best systems around! I would have pirated the music back then too I'm sure, but I couldn't afford a reel to reel!

    Lol! I came from 12 children. We didn't have much, although we weren't the poorest around. My oldest brother is 8-1/2 years older than me. He'd stick 3 or 4 of us siblings in the trunk to sneak us into the outdoor theater. We'd bring our own popcorn and pop. That outdoor is still in operation. I used to take my kids there. Not too many left in the U.S.

    I raised six children. I know how expensive that can get to be. My hat off to those raising children now! I don't blame your dad one bit for "adjusting" the ages, especially being a veteran. I bet he is/was a great dad!
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  8. #318


    Posts : 1,925
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by Max Peck View Post
    OK ... so if the piracy is LESS of a crime then it's not a crime, eh?

    Sorry ... as far as I'm concerned, theft is theft. The development of "cloning" technology does not diminish the fact that you are taking something that does not belong to you​.
    Yes, Theft is Theft. But Piracy is not Theft. Theft is depriving someone of something they have. Not depriving them of something they don't yet have. Theft is not "taking something that doesn't belong to you", theft is taking something that belongs to someone else. For instance, if you find a dollar laying in the street, it's not "theft" to take it, even though it doesn't belong to you. It doesn't belong to anyone, because the previous owner abandoned it (either through accident or loss or whatever). Theft has nothing to do with whether or not the item belongs to the thief, it's whether or not it belongs to someone else.

    Nobody (well, not anyone reasonable anyways) is saying that Piracy is "less of a crime", it's just not theft. Extortion and Fraud are two different things. They are both bad, but you shouldn't say that someone has been extorted if they've been defrauded. It's simply not factually correct or accurate.

    Piracy is Copyright Infringement. That's all it is. It's not theft. It's not stealing. It's not robbery. It's copyright infringement.

    Infringement is depriving someone of a right. In this case, you are depriving them of the right to control whether a copy of their property can be made. In this sense, it's similar to trespassing, which is also a right (to control what happens to your property).

    Now tell me, is Trespassing the same as stealing?
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  9. #319


    DeLand, FL
    Posts : 380
    Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit


    Quote Originally Posted by HippsieGypsie View Post
    I don't blame your dad one bit for "adjusting" the ages, especially being a veteran. I bet he is/was a great dad!
    No, actually he isn't that hot as a Dad. We parted ways a long time ago. His choice. I won't go into it.

    -b
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  10. #320


    DeLand, FL
    Posts : 380
    Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit


    Quote Originally Posted by Mystere View Post
    Now tell me, is Trespassing the same as stealing?
    Of course not, Mystere, but they're just as illegal. Pirating software is still taking something a product that you are not paying for which is, by definition, stealing.

    That's OK ... I don't care if you agree with me. This discussion has gotten old. Let's just table it. I've got better things to do.

    Later d00d.

    -Max
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

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