Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums


I have yet to meet anyone in person who actually likes it

  1. #251


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by Ray8 View Post
    It's fairly evident that you don't even want to understand other's points of view, no matter how they try to explain. You like things as they have been dished out, fine; others don't and are voicing their concerns. Whether Microsoft sees any of this or not, and whether they take notice or not, or whether they have the slightest inclination to do anything about these concerns if they do, is another issue entirely.

    I'm using this forum as a mechanism to voice concerns and criticisms about Windows 8, as I see them. I want Microsoft to hear these concerns and criticisms and let others agree or disagree as it suits. I don't care what others think about my views, and you can debate them until the cows come home, but I'll keep pointing out issues as I find them while using Windows 8.

    I'll shut up if/when my frustration levels peak and I totally discard Windows 8.
    There's very little to discuss... Things can be improved upon, yeah, this isn't debatable.

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  2. #252


    Posts : 1,925
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by musiclover7 View Post
    Let me ask you this.. How cool would it be, if when clicking on the start screen, along the bottom of the screen, all running programs were linked in a graphically please-able fashion. How cool would it be, if when intalling a new program in windows, you did not get 5 brand new use-less icons on your start screen that you will never use, but instead just a single, easy to see and identify link to that application.
    How cool? Not cool at all. I am in the start page for at most 2 seconds at a time, and only a few times a day. Why would I want to see the running programs when I am there to launch a new program? What purpose would it serve? None as far as I can tell.

    All those icons are added to the start menu as well, so I don't really see the difference here. Unlike the start menu, you can unpin them from the start page and still easily get to them from the All Programs page. If you unpin an icon in the start menu, then you have to find the app in the Program Files folder to launch it.

    The point of the start page is that you pin your favorite and frequently used apps there. You don't put every icon there. That's what the All Programs page is for. It's the equivalent of pinning items to your Start Menu, except that the start menu has a limited number of programs you can pin to it.. while the start page is effectively infinite. This is one reason why the start page was designed the way it was, because the current start menu pinning does not scale beyond a handful of apps.

    Have you seen how zooming works in All Apps, just like folders.

    Click image for larger version

    I don't know why you think the OS should be designed for the new user? A person is only a new user for a short period of time. It should be designed to be efficient first, new users can learn. It's not like almost everything about a computer isn't a learned experience anyways. The mouse isn't intuitive at first. nor is the keyboard. Menus aren't intuitive if you don't know what they are. Everything is learned.
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  3. #253


    what's the problem not having a start button? I click on the bottom right side of the task bar and get a "show all programs" icon. i prefer that to the start button menu.
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  4. #254


    Posts : 219
    Windows 8.1 Pro 64 Bit


    Quote Originally Posted by Ray8 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by musiclover7 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ray8 View Post
    It's fairly evident that you don't even want to understand other's points of view, no matter how they try to explain. You like things as they have been dished out, fine; others don't and are voicing their concerns. Whether Microsoft sees any of this or not, and whether they take notice or not, or whether they have the slightest inclination to do anything about these concerns if they do, is another issue entirely.

    I'm using this forum as a mechanism to voice concerns and criticisms about Windows 8, as I see them. I want Microsoft to hear these concerns and criticisms and let others agree or disagree as it suits. I don't care what others think about my views, and you can debate them until the cows come home, but I'll keep pointing out issues as I find them while using Windows 8.

    I'll shut up if/when my frustration levels peak and I totally discard Windows 8.
    Exactly.. How is it better? Well, it is more consolidated for one. It is more familiar for another. I bet if you and I were to race to the notepad application with just a mouse, I would beat you hands down every time with the start menu vs the start screen. Just my two cents..
    Erm, I'm actually agreeing with your point of view. My post was directed at mystery man.
    I know.. I am agreeing with yours also. The later part of my post was directed also to mystery man. I should have included a 'to mystere' right after the word exactly.
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  5. #255


    Quote Originally Posted by musiclover7 View Post
    If you re-read my very first post in this thread, I explained that after several months of using the vanilla OS sans start menu, genuinely trying to like the new interface and see it as an upgrade, I installed classic shell only to find the entire experience that much better. I don't care about aero, though some will. I would rather have speed that glassy corners to my windows any day. To me, this was a sensible change, as were others that were included in the OS.

    At the core of this thread is the question of whether or not the OS is better without the start menu and just the start screen. There are a lot of folks around here who are quick to point out alternative methods for getting from point a to point b, and claiming that this new method is superior to the old. At the end of the day, it is all about how easily and efficiently each person as an end user can access their data and accomplish tasks within their graphic environment. Personally, I install rocketdock day one after loading any version of windows which gives quick access to a few things I use all the time... I add links to my favorites in explorer, and generally enjoy having more than 2 ways of getting anywhere I need to get inside of Windows. Circumstances determine which is best at any given moment, and I prefer more options to less. I love to use keyboard shortcuts, but I can't see my grandma using them, so I don't see them as a valid replacement. One cannot say, 'Just hold down the windows key + d and walla', with the bulk of pc users... I cannot understand why this is a difficult concept..
    Ok. I've been a shortcut keys guy since their inception. I don't see the use of removing my hand off the keyboard to grab the mouse to navigate. It was no problem for me to learn the shortcut keys dedicated to 8. The WinKey continues to be the shortcut to the Start Screen just as it was for the Start Menu. I find it much quicker to key through the Start Screen than I did with the Start Menu, especially with the page up or down and end then home keys. I then use the arrow keys to narrow the choice down. I would say I'm faster than the average joe when it comes to keying though.

    So, for the past 6 weeks I decided to use the mouse more to navigate to see if mouse-navigation complaints are legit. Once I learned the eye/hand feel of the four corners along with which left/right mouse buttons to use I can now say that I fly around in 8. I have yet to use touch (besides a few minutes in a store) to navigate, which I believe will be much quicker yet.

    I at least believe in the direction that Microsoft is trying to move with this iteration of windows. I see a lot of unharnessed potential in the start screen. I don't dislike the idea of an entire screen launch pad into everything I need to get to inside the os, available at the click of a button. When you get there though, it really does not deliver, imo. So much more could have been available, in a much more intuitive way. It could have had a side bar even that was a larger version of the old start menu to satisfy us die hards, tweaked to look pretty for this new generation. More telling info could be pinned to it as needed, and their could be android like folders within the start screen, so that you can store multiple links to apps inside a single icon. There was a great deal that could have been done, that wasn't. It is not an interface for advanced users. The start screen as it is, is very un-customizeable and limited when compared to other touch options in the market now-a-days. This market has come a long way as any smart phone owner should know and while I appreciate this attempt by Microsoft to step into that market with a bang, I find the new interface lacking even after using it for two months in an attempt to see it's merit. I find it hard to imagine, that a company with such resources, could expect their user base to be excited by what they have put out...

    After two months with the vanilla, I installed the classic shell only to find the OS more enjoyable. This has to say something. It is not just because it is familiar, but Microsoft cannot completely disregard everything that is familiar when they are attempting to design a user interface either... I am looking forward to Windows 9 and am hoping for an improvement. At this point only time will tell...
    Yes, at least you see the potential of what MS is trying to accomplish. I don't see how you think the Start Screen doesn't deliver, though. Please read my OP here. www.eightforums.com/showthread.php?t=16379.

    I'm not understanding why none of the naysayers, doubters, haters, or what have yous don't post comments or opinions here. I think I raise a very valid core view of what MS is trying to accomplish with the Modern UI.

    I've read repeatedly what what I consider three valid complaints from power users for the last six months on this forum, of which the first is not completely legit IMO.

    #1. "The Start Screen takes me away from my desktop". Well, when I open the Start Menu I'm not looking at the rest of the desktop unless I have unusual eye muscle powers to focus my eyes individually like those certain lizards that can. I'm focusing on the menu.

    "I can't see if an email, IM, etc. comes in". This is halfway legitimate, although there are alert sounds and one spends a few seconds in the Start Screen to find a link, unless one is opening a Modern app such as news, WM, or what have you. I do the reverse in that the Modern WM or IM alerts me with incoming when I'm on the desktop.

    #2. Hierarchical problem of the Start Screen and All Apps. I think MS needs to address this issue. I can see where it would be problematic for some.

    #3. Modern apps opening full screen only to snap two. I think MS needs to develop a multipane screen system to fix this. It would be similar to multiple windows where one can switch to a certain pane to work within. I do think this is what is being developed in Blue to satisfy and appease enterprise and PUs. I think this will be an addon that enterprise can purchase. There will continue to be updates, but not SPs. They will sell addons instead just like the Windows 8 Pro Pack. Perhaps this will be their last OS they write. Just keep adding to the kernel. Makes sense to me not to waste time and money in writing a new one each time. Just simply add on whatever one needs. This will eventually make the desktop obsolete.

    To me this has been the problem of any OS that anyone develops. One is buying extra unneeded software that's included that one will never use whereas someone else will. This concept of addons and apps for personalization makes perfect sense to me.
    Last edited by HippsieGypsie; 06 Jan 2013 at 03:22.
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  6. #256


    Posts : 534
    Windows 7, Windows 8 RP


    Quote Originally Posted by redbird107 View Post
    Hi folks! I'm new to Win8 and new to the forum. Hoping someone here can help me out with an issue I'm having with it. I have Win8 on my Dell Inspiron15 Notebook.
    The problem I'm having is as I'm typing along (could be in an email, or a Word.doc...doesn't seem to matter where it's at) and all of the sudden the cursor jumps to a new random (or so it seems) location. I've tried duplicating it doing that by hitting two keys at once...a combination of different keys...and can't duplicate it. It's soooooooo frustrating. I can't even get one sentence typed without the cursor jumping to a new location a half dozen times. I'm not one to always be looking at the monitor while typing, so sometimes I'm not catching it right away. I've searched Control Panel to see if there is some setting there that is making this happen. I thought perhaps an auto save feature might be kicking in and doing it, but couldn't find anything on that. And I don't even know what to call what's happening in order to do a search to see if anyone else is experiencing this quirk. I type 70+ words a minute and so having to stop all the time to realign the cursor and clean up the mess it's made is soooo grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
    Any suggestions anyone? Should I post this in a different forum?
    Its your track pad sensitivity, as you type your palms are un-noticeably touching the track pad which explains the erratic and random jumping. You should be able to reduce the sensitivity of your track pad for this, some even have the option to disable while typing.
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  7. #257


    UK
    Posts : 177
    Win 8


    The problem is the one for all concept. There is a fundamental mismatch between the Modern UI and Windows. It s NOT Windows! The modern UI is full screen and designed for mobile devices and tablets, Windows is a desktop (or laptop).

    The whole point of windows is resizable windows that can be positioned anywhere, that's why it works so well and has been the UI of choice for MacOS, OSX, Linux, Next and xWindows. By trying to force the Modern UI on to the desktop MS has taken a wheel and hammered it to a square.

    I believe that the poor take up particularly by Enterprise, which they need to drive Server and back office technologies where they make big money, will result in a separation between the desktop UI and the Modern UI products. A OS for business and an OS for toys, both based on the same kernel with a front end suited to their use.

    I have said repeatedly that the Modern UI is for toys and I still maintain that position. By a toy I mean something you browse, play on social media, check email etc. It has no place on a workstation or PC used for any kind of productivity.

    I like the OS but I have no need of the Modern UI so I never use it. I have already created that separation I mentioned earlier by using StartIsBack.

    I do like the ribbon and have since it first appeared in Office, though it took a while to find my way round it I was happy to learn as it enhanced the use of Office. The start screen and the Modern UI do not enhance the use of Windows, rather it is a dumbing down to produce a less functional experience on a desktop PC whilst being eminently suitable for the limited capabilities of a mobile device.

    One size rarely fits all and I think MS are mistaken by perusing this avenue. Ultimately sales and take up and their effect on stock prices will determine the future of this concept.
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  8. #258


    Posts : 534
    Windows 7, Windows 8 RP


    Quote Originally Posted by steveb View Post
    I believe that the poor take up particularly by Enterprise, which they need to drive Server and back office technologies where they make big money, will result in a separation between the desktop UI and the Modern UI products. A OS for business and an OS for toys, both based on the same kernel with a front end suited to their use.

    I have said repeatedly that the Modern UI is for toys and I still maintain that position. By a toy I mean something you browse, play on social media, check email etc. It has no place on a workstation or PC used for any kind of productivity.
    Considering that the uptake of W7 at the enterprise started well after SP1 was released it's too early to tell what the uptake is going to be for W8 after just a few months.

    As for 'toys' the word is actually 'consumption', the Modern UI is for consumption, at least in this iteration of it. You prefer to consume your info using the desktop and 'pulling' the info you are interested in, I prefer to have my info 'pushed' to my apps of choice so that I don't have to waste time looking for it. I know that when my tiles have updated that there is new info to look at, if they haven't changed I don't bother to check. I use W8 at home and at work and it works well for me in both case, at work I spend 99% of my time on the desktop whereas at home it's probably the opposite.
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  9. #259


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    [QUOTE=steveb;171464]

    I believe that the poor take up particularly by Enterprise, which they need to drive Server and back office technologies where they make big money, will result in a separation between the desktop UI and the Modern UI products. A OS for business and an OS for toys, both based on the same kernel with a front end suited to their use.

    QUOTE]
    Tell that to the US's Department of Defense...
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  10. #260


    Posts : 2,627
    win8.1.1 enterprise


    [QUOTE=Coke Robot;171175]
    Quote Originally Posted by musiclover7 View Post

    The useless program links are there due to third party developers, .
    3rd party ,have you installed microsft office yet ,they may all be useful ,but could have been inside the one tile ,that would open to reveal them when needed , its at least 10 with office 2010, and 18 with office 2013
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