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Why they designed Windows 8 the way they did

  1. #31


    Posts : 2,156
    Win7 Ult on DIY; Win8 Pro on MBP/Parallels; Win7 Ult on MBP/Boot Camp; Win7 Ult/Win8 Pro on HP


    Quote Originally Posted by Pazzmon View Post
    Just watched this video and is slowly turning me more into a Microsoft fan boy!
    Still have watched it; need to get at it.

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  2. #32


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by Ray8 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    How do you drive?....
    By the sounds of it, quite differently to you and clearly something different to what you drive. I have no need to touch the 'window' in front of me when I drive and I have the 'familiar' controls that have been in use for ages.


    I was insinuating that touch on a desktop is the same as driving, you always have your arms extended in front of you the entire time. Shoot, I stopped going to the gym because driving was fatiguing and a such a good arm workout!
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  3. #33


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by Pazzmon View Post
    Just watched this video and is slowly turning me more into a Microsoft fan boy!
    Wow!
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  4. #34


    Posts : 1,770
    Windows Phone 6, Windows CE 5, Windows Vista x32, Windows 7 x32/x64, Windows 8 x64


    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    I was insinuating that touch on a desktop is the same as driving, you always have your arms extended in front of you the entire time. Shoot, I stopped going to the gym because driving was fatiguing and a such a good arm workout!
    I see it quite differently. I view the mouse and keyboard as the equivalent of the vehicle controls (steering wheel, gears etc - the master controls) and touch would be equivalent to answering my phone or adjusting something on the head unit (the peripheral things that you might do that are not directly driving related).

    Looking back at that video, it's quite unfortunate that Microsoft once again used a car analogy. Suggesting that a functional, but bland looking car is the equivalent of Windows 7 etc and Windows 8 is a whole new paradigm of excitement, simply shows that they were after bling and not something exciting that was also functional. A Camry and a Ferrari are both functional in how they work, but one is bland and the other is exciting. Windows 8 is not a Ferrari.
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  5. #35


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by Ray8 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    I was insinuating that touch on a desktop is the same as driving, you always have your arms extended in front of you the entire time. Shoot, I stopped going to the gym because driving was fatiguing and a such a good arm workout!
    I see it quite differently. I view the mouse and keyboard as the equivalent of the vehicle controls (steering wheel, gears etc - the master controls) and touch would be equivalent to answering my phone or adjusting something on the head unit (the peripheral things that you might do that are not directly driving related).

    Looking back at that video, it's quite unfortunate that Microsoft once again used a car analogy. Suggesting that a functional, but bland looking car is the equivalent of Windows 7 etc and Windows 8 is a whole new paradigm of excitement, simply shows that they were after bling and not something exciting that was also functional. A Camry and a Ferrari are both functional in how they work, but one is bland and the other is exciting. Windows 8 is not a Ferrari.
    They used a bland mid-sized sedan from a Subaru advert that illustrates that just using a predefined mold is only going to result in mediocrity versus innovation and breaking out from the mold. I think Windows 7 and other familiar things are like that sedan, Windows 8 and everything else new and modern (Kinect and Wii and their other examples) are like the Toyota Prius. It has an interesting design that is kind of polarizing, but it has sparked the conversation of great fuel economy, hybridizing transmissions and engines, battery packs, green energy sources to power future cars, as well as different hybrid cars like the Honda Insight and Chevy Volt and Nissan Leaf as well as an IMB engineer's idea of taking current non-hybrid cars and putting on some cost effective technology to turn them into hybrids.

    But the conversation that Windows 8 has not only been its polarizing design, has been touch computing, the use of tablet PCs, ending skeuomorphic design in UI design, the expansion of the Natural User Interface, different app models and even using technology to make non-touch PCs to have touch input like the Microsoft Touch Mouse or the Logitech touch pad and mice; and resulting in new PCs like the Surface Pro or the Lenovo Yoga or the Asus Tachi as well as the convertible form factor and taking traditional form factors and making them touch enabled.

    The steering wheel reference I'm making is not really metaphorical, where the mouse is the wheel. But it's literally the same thing as driving, your arms are extended away from you for long periods of time. Of course, you're holding onto something, but that kind of happens with a touch desktop. Depending on how you sit, how high you sit, and how close you sit; your elbow might actually end up on top of your desk. Normally, there are guidelines to how you're supposed to sit, but usually not many follow those guidelines out of comfort. Using touch on a desktop, you have to move away from the guidelines to using a PC (the way you're supposed to sit that most people again don't follow as it's not too comfortable either) to using a touch PC. Driving a Camry is different than driving a sports car like a Dodge Viper or a Ferrari. A Ferrari and Viper have more attention to detail and details you may never see versus a Camry. Windows 8 is not a Camry, but not so much of a Ferrari either. It's a four door Dodge Charger.
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  6. #36


    Posts : 1,770
    Windows Phone 6, Windows CE 5, Windows Vista x32, Windows 7 x32/x64, Windows 8 x64


    The example is wrong. A car requires a predefined mould because there are fundamental engineering, functional and design rule aspects that must be adhered to in every car. Once those requirements are satisfied, you can pretty much change other things to your hearts content. In some respects, Microsoft decided to ignore some of those fundamental requirements and do their own thing.

    It's like removing the steering wheel and replacing it with a joystick. Yes, a joy stick can be used to control a car, but the results will be very unsatisfactory, as that's not what people are used to using. How well do you think a car would sell if it was steered using a joystick? That's effectively what Microsoft has done.

    Also, there's nothing new about touch controls in computing, it's been around for a long time; all Windows 8 does is offer an extension of that in the Microsoft environment. They are playing catch up, but alienating their traditional user base in an attempt to entice a new group of users. Windows has been a cash cow for Microsoft for a very long time, for good reason, but once they remove the reason for that traditional user base to stick with Microsoft, then the cash cow will start to dry up. Then Microsoft will be between a rock and a hard place.
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  7. #37


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by Ray8 View Post
    The example is wrong. A car requires a predefined mould because there are fundamental engineering, functional and design rule aspects that must be adhered to in every car. Once those requirements are satisfied, you can pretty much change other things to your hearts content. In some respects, Microsoft decided to ignore some of those fundamental requirements and do their own thing.

    It's like removing the steering wheel and replacing it with a joystick. Yes, a joy stick can be used to control a car, but the results will be very unsatisfactory, as that's not what people are used to using. How well do you think a car would sell if it was steered using a joystick? That's effectively what Microsoft has done.

    Also, there's nothing new about touch controls in computing, it's been around for a long time; all Windows 8 does is offer an extension of that in the Microsoft environment. They are playing catch up, but alienating their traditional user base in an attempt to entice a new group of users. Windows has been a cash cow for Microsoft for a very long time, for good reason, but once they remove the reason for that traditional user base to stick with Microsoft, then the cash cow will start to dry up. Then Microsoft will be between a rock and a hard place.
    No, you're taking the example far too extreme. This is about a mid-sized sedan and what its expectations are. The idea here is that the mid-sized sedan category is one that SO many makers and designers have done, that's it become mediocre and one sedan is like another sedan. In this case of that video, the Subaru reinvented the mold of the mid-sized sedan with the Impreza and changed the expectations of a mid-sized sedan.

    Windows 8 isn't like blowing out the mold of how to design a car, it's blowing the mold of how to design a product that many others have designed, a Desktop based UI with icons and window chrome from chrome OS to mac OS, and reinvented that into a Start Screen with live tiles.

    Interesting you mention touch controls being around for a long time. Electric cars have been around since the early days of the Ford Model T, have been developed in the '70s, experimented in the '80s, refined in the '90s, and are finally at the verge of being mainstream today. If you took away ICE engines from many people and replaced it with an electric car, they will be alienated by it. Grease monkeys (myself included) will be upset by that as a complex and beautiful thing as an engine is replaced by a motor and battery. But in the end, many people will enjoy the responsiveness of how fast an electric car can get up to in six seconds, the quietness of it, and ease and cost effective repairs. Auto makers will adapt and innovate and research designs of cars and how to make electric cars better. It'll get to a point where if an auto maker isn't building electric cars or not putting a lot effort into it and thinking electric cars are a phase, they'll die out or become a niche product for a small group of people.
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  8. #38


    Posts : 1,770
    Windows Phone 6, Windows CE 5, Windows Vista x32, Windows 7 x32/x64, Windows 8 x64


    Going from last to first, people wouldn't and are not alienated by electric cars, as everything in an electric car replicates that of a traditionally powered car. Without badges etc, you couldn't even identify an electric car from any other when at a standstill and turned off. And they replicate traditionally engined cars for the very reason so as not to alienate potential buyers.

    As for the first part, the car industry is huge and varied, there is room for white goods (aka Camry) and bespoke (aka Ferrari) and anything in between. The car industry provides vehicles for many an varied uses, be it utilitarian or completely impractical but enjoyable. Everyone has a choice for what they need or desire.

    An OS, in itself, does nothing. An OS is designed to support and provide an environment where other programs can function. When an OS doesn't provide that environment and support, but imposes its own requirements, it ignores its prime objective. To ignore or belittle the needs of the traditional user base, is fraught with folly.
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  9. #39


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by Ray8 View Post
    Going from last to first, people wouldn't and are not alienated by electric cars, as everything in an electric car replicates that of a traditionally powered car. Without badges etc, you couldn't even identify an electric car from any other when at a standstill and turned off. And they replicate traditionally engined cars for the very reason so as not to alienate potential buyers.

    As for the first part, the car industry is huge and varied, there is room for white goods (aka Camry) and bespoke (aka Ferrari) and anything in between. The car industry provides vehicles for many an varied uses, be it utilitarian or completely impractical but enjoyable. Everyone has a choice for what they need or desire.

    An OS, in itself, does nothing. An OS is designed to support and provide an environment where other programs can function. When an OS doesn't provide that environment and support, but imposes its own requirements, it ignores its prime objective. To ignore or belittle the needs of the traditional user base, is fraught with folly.
    That's actually arguable skeuomorphic design. TRUE EVs are differentiate from traditional cars, no grilles, no exhaust pipes, no air ducts, and have an overall weirdly aerodynamic shape. Those are the alienating true electric vehicles. That's a one size fit all solution for people that drive up in the mountain in trucks, tow boats to the lake, do family hauling with minivans, and other things. Those people would be alienated by such a rapid change and a change they would consider be not worthwhile, although that technology might actually be there and in development.

    Yes, the auto industry has a lot of different niches for needs or demands. The VERY same with PC hardware and Windows. For example, I'm building a desktop that does literally everything from Xbox gaming, being a home server, my telly, media center, gaming rig, and some other things. That partly relies on the hardware. The software is what matters. Windows 8 is what I'll be using on that. You might use Windows 7 as you feel that's proper, but Windows 8 allows me to do more with my hardware. If I want to use apps that would be on my Windows Phone to be on my PC, I can do that. If I want to switch over to the Xbox part, I can. If I want to create a pretty decent Excel spreadsheet, oh yeah. My point is, is that Windows 8 is much like Windows before and more. It can be arranged for different niches and demands. If you want Windows 8 to be primarily gaming, you'd fill a Start Screen full of games. If you want it to be primarily Desktop based, your Start Screen would be filled out with Desktop apps and locations. If you want Windows 8 to be internet content based, your Start Screen will be filled out with Windows Store apps. If you want to do all the above, you'd have all that in the Start Screen.

    There really isn't ANYTHING in Windows 8 that doesn't offer or provide an environment to support programs and allow them to function, nor does it impose requirements (other than on the hardware to keep a consistent user experience but this has been Windows since ever) and doesn't ignore it's prime objective.
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  10. #40


    Posts : 1,770
    Windows Phone 6, Windows CE 5, Windows Vista x32, Windows 7 x32/x64, Windows 8 x64


    You're argument is sounding a lot like this (the shop owner): Monty Python - Dead Parrot - YouTube.

    Cheers

    Ray
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Why they designed Windows 8 the way they did
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